BF2S Forums 980-Pound Man Needs 'Life-Saving' Operation

FatherTed wrote:

rammunition wrote:

The fact is Britain is a loving, caring society where everyone is treated fairly and equally.

America is a selfish, greedy society where people only have concerns for themselves.

Thats the difference

Hmmm you live in a different Britain than i do, and you've been to a different America.

No. The health care debate has shown once more that America is a  individualistic society and has always been. They don't care about the poor and needy and they only think of themselves. The sign of a truly civilised nation is when absolutely every single person (rich or poor) has access to healthcare.

We have free health care, everyone is entitled to it as we are a civilised, caring society where everyone is equal regardless of upbringing, race etc. Though the NHS is far from perfect, its a great service.

FatherTed wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

In whatever system you employ, anywhere around the world, you will get people producing a net loss on the system. Anywhere.

Uh, no. There is no net loss or net gain in a system where everyone pays for their own care.

Sure their is, there's always someone somewhere who can't afford their care. Example being, a shelfstacker in tesco who develops something that requires brain surgery. Pretty sure his salary couldn't stretch to that, hence someone somewhere has to pick up the bill.

What exactly do you not understand about everyone paying for their own care?

rammunition wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

Sure their is, there's always someone somewhere who can't afford their care. Example being, a shelfstacker in tesco who develops something that requires brain surgery. Pretty sure his salary couldn't stretch to that, hence someone somewhere has to pick up the bill.

What exactly do you not understand about everyone paying for their own care?

decent healthcare should always be a right and never a privilege

meh...ill pay for better cancer survival rates kthx

rammunition wrote:

Red Forman wrote:

rammunition wrote:

decent healthcare should always be a right and never a privilege

meh...ill pay for better cancer survival rates kthx

Ok, tell me if health care is a right or a privilege?

it must be a right since a hospital cannot turn you away for life threatening injuries.

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Uh, no. There is no net loss or net gain in a system where everyone pays for their own care.

Sure their is, there's always someone somewhere who can't afford their care. Example being, a shelfstacker in tesco who develops something that requires brain surgery. Pretty sure his salary couldn't stretch to that, hence someone somewhere has to pick up the bill.

What exactly do you not understand about everyone paying for their own care?

His example works.  I have insurance through my work.  I pay a monthly rate for health insurance.  If I have expensive surgery, I have a maximum deductible I pay, everything above that deductible is covered by the insurance.  The insurance company eats the cost, not me.  In essense, I'm not paying for my own care, the insurance company is.  The difference in the two systems is that in the US, the insurance company takes on the burden, in the UK the government takes on the burden.  Either way, people other than myself are affected by me having expensive surgery.

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

Sure their is, there's always someone somewhere who can't afford their care. Example being, a shelfstacker in tesco who develops something that requires brain surgery. Pretty sure his salary couldn't stretch to that, hence someone somewhere has to pick up the bill.

What exactly do you not understand about everyone paying for their own care?

His example works.  I have insurance through my work.  I pay a monthly rate for health insurance.  If I have expensive surgery, I have a maximum deductible I pay, everything above that deductible is covered by the insurance.  The insurance company eats the cost, not me.  In essense, I'm not paying for my own care, the insurance company is.  The difference in the two systems is that in the US, the insurance company takes on the burden, in the UK the government takes on the burden.  Either way, people other than myself are affected by me having expensive surgery.

You realize that a) insurance companies make a profit and b) people are not forced to by insurance?

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

What exactly do you not understand about everyone paying for their own care?

His example works.  I have insurance through my work.  I pay a monthly rate for health insurance.  If I have expensive surgery, I have a maximum deductible I pay, everything above that deductible is covered by the insurance.  The insurance company eats the cost, not me.  In essense, I'm not paying for my own care, the insurance company is.  The difference in the two systems is that in the US, the insurance company takes on the burden, in the UK the government takes on the burden.  Either way, people other than myself are affected by me having expensive surgery.

You realize that a) insurance companies make a profit and b) people are not forced to by insurance?

That's irrelevant to your original question and his response.  Or maybe you are talking about a hypothetical system that would never exist (which is why Ted qualified his statement with "any system, anywhere in the world" aka not hypothetical).

rammunition wrote:

Red Forman wrote:

i dont see why you are so happy to pay for someone elses bad health habits.  i mean, lets be fair here.  if you want to smoke, drink, and play zomg xgames then you should pay for your own shit.

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 2#p2863822

oh........i would say stupid but ok

rammunition wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Privilege.

Is the ability to own private property a right or a privilege?

Property is a privilege, a home is a right regardless of type i.e. care home, council home etc.

Do explain the reasoning behind health care being a "privilege"

People have a right to life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness. That means that no one else can infringe upon those rights, including the government, unless you infringe on another's rights. You have a right to not be murdered - you don't have a right to not get cancer, and you certainly don't have the right to infringe on someone else's property just because you got a shitty lot in life.

So you're okay with the government being able to take away your property at will?

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Red Forman wrote:

i dont see why you are so happy to pay for someone elses bad health habits.  i mean, lets be fair here.  if you want to smoke, drink, and play zomg xgames then you should pay for your own shit.

You realize that we in the US already pay for obese people and smokers?  Our premiums go up.  It's all a numbers game - at the end of the day the insurance companies make sure they juice their rates enough to get their money.

so why change anything?  its either taxes or premiums.  seems like yall are just arguing semantics.  if anything tort reform should just about do it imo.

Pug wrote:

Let's say...

Someone has a life threatening drinking problem, gets a new liver.

Continues to drink...needs a new liver.

Is that covered?  Are both covered?

Who makes that decision?  The government?

Do you want the government controlling your doctor's decisions?

In the UK the government don't make these decision. Doctors make the decisions. The Government fund the NHS through the tax system.

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

His example works.  I have insurance through my work.  I pay a monthly rate for health insurance.  If I have expensive surgery, I have a maximum deductible I pay, everything above that deductible is covered by the insurance.  The insurance company eats the cost, not me.  In essense, I'm not paying for my own care, the insurance company is.  The difference in the two systems is that in the US, the insurance company takes on the burden, in the UK the government takes on the burden.  Either way, people other than myself are affected by me having expensive surgery.

You realize that a) insurance companies make a profit and b) people are not forced to by insurance?

That's irrelevant to your original question and his response.  Or maybe you are talking about a hypothetical system that would never exist (which is why Ted qualified his statement with "any system, anywhere in the world" aka not hypothetical).

"In whatever system you employ, anywhere in the world" does not mean "In any employed system, anywhere in the world". It means any system.

I told you to pay attention to what people say.