Pages: 1

 

2009-10-20 19:12:18
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6994|67.222.138.85
If you focus on the little things, you easily lose touch with the big picture and the motivation for doing anything at all. You can operate more effectively, but you can't make an informed decision about what you should be operating on. Conversely, living in a world of big ideas you can lose grounding and not operate at all.

What level of perspective should someone use to get the most out of life?

---

If that was the extent of the OP, the majority of responses would inevitably be some variation of "find a middle ground". That's a stupid answer. The idea of a middle ground is stupid when one case invalidates the other. When one extreme states that any amount of the other extreme invalidates itself, the middle ground is the only option that can't even be argued for.

If you take a broad perspective on life when in reality you should be paying attention to the little things, stopping to smell the roses, etc., then you have invariably missed out. Any amount of time you spend thinking big and ultimately pointless thoughts is lost time.

If you take that small perspective on life when it is the all-encompassing that is important, you render any time spent worrying over spilled milk utterly wasted. The big picture renders everything irrelevant.

---

Everything in the middle is a lose. The ends are a coin toss for true purpose unless you have some serious shit you should lay on me ASAP, but everyone else who takes the stance of the Swiss contradicts themselves.
2009-10-20 19:17:25
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6755
FM, you need to understand that most of the issues "discussed" in DST, are large and complex issues. Many of these issues have no right answer. Because of the complexity and moral-ambiguity of these "debates," most people cannot come to a definitive answer that they can support with their entire mind and conscience. Because of this they find an easy, middle answer that they can be okay with, even if the middle answer to the question does not do even to solve the question.
2009-10-20 19:26:01
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5873

What level of perspective should someone use to get the most out of life?
Usually a wiki article helps me decide if it's worth visiting some place or studying something further.

Before anyone says "ZOMG wiki LOL get a life" All I need is a wiki article to reaffirm my belief that I don't want to visit Somalia or study Buddhism or not want to eat black pudding. Usually a wiki is a nice place to start to test the water if I want to look into something further.

Anyway, each person should figure within themselves whether the big picture is something they should focus on or if their attention should be the small picture.

I would say small picture is more personal happiness. I want to sleep with a model, drive a nice car, visit XYZ so my attention would be spent towards getting to that point where I can do all those things.

Big picture I take it as ,world hunger or world conflict. Not every person has the ability to change those in even a small way, but some people are really hellbent on getting beat up with a club in front of the U.N. or donating most of their income to starving kids wherever.

Considering that, I personally would pick small picture, personal happiness over big picture,overall other than macbeth human advancement. i would also advise most people on focusing on small picture.

You're the Phil guy here FM so does that make any sense or even has anything to do with the OP?
2009-10-20 19:27:47
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6994|67.222.138.85
You need to understand that these complex issues and moral ambiguities are a result of pussy-footing around, not the cause of it. People for the most part don't independently come to conclusions that they both believe and can defend as a result of coherent thought leading to their conclusions.

People pick and choose stances between circumstances because they don't have the balls to stand by the extension of the ideas they use to make easy decisions. They prefer to make easy decisions every time and be a moral nonentity. If you actually believe in anything decisions are easy, the difficulty lies in letting the path of least resistance define your course of action rather than your rationality - picking apart the results to find the path of least resistance is the hard part.
2009-10-20 19:29:26
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5645|London, England
Can easily do a mix of both. I tend to think big and then focus on the details after I have the original thought. Sometimes the details invalidate the original thought and you have to start over. I don't consider this to be 'middle ground', I consider it to be a prioritization of thought based on circumstances.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2009-10-20 19:30:08
13urnzz
Banned
+5,830|6784

i like pictures. Big pictures, little pictures. i recently got into photography.

i'd like to tell you something FM that will help you out immensely, but it won't for another twenty years.
would you like to know now?

Last edited by burnzz (2009-10-20 19:34:57)

2009-10-20 19:33:14
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5645|London, England

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

You need to understand that these complex issues and moral ambiguities are a result of pussy-footing around, not the cause of it. People for the most part don't independently come to conclusions that they both believe and can defend as a result of coherent thought leading to their conclusions.

People pick and choose stances between circumstances because they don't have the balls to stand by the extension of the ideas they use to make easy decisions. They prefer to make easy decisions every time and be a moral nonentity. If you actually believe in anything decisions are easy, the difficulty lies in letting the path of least resistance define your course of action rather than your rationality - picking apart the results to find the path of least resistance is the hard part.
It has more to do with the childish desire to have everyone like you more than anything else. A rational mind sees that you can not please everyone while maintaining what makes you you. Once a person gets past this you will find them much more likely to stand by their convictions and choose more difficult paths.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2009-10-20 19:34:28
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6994|67.222.138.85

burnzz wrote:

i'd like to tell you something FM that will help you out immensely, but it won't for another twenty years.
would you like to know now?
yes plz

Macbeth wrote:

You're the Phil guy here FM
lol

The big picture counter would be is personal happiness an appropriate goal in life? Pretty simple answer it seems like to me.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Can easily do a mix of both. I tend to think big and then focus on the details after I have the original thought. Sometimes the details invalidate the original thought and you have to start over. I don't consider this to be 'middle ground', I consider it to be a prioritization of thought based on circumstances.
Implementation of big picture thinking isn't really a small perspective. A narrow perspective is details for the sake of details, not details in context of a higher purpose.

JohnG@lt wrote:

It has more to do with the childish social desire to have everyone like you more than anything else.
2009-10-20 19:35:48
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5645|London, England

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

You're the Phil guy here FM
lol

The big picture counter would be is personal happiness an appropriate goal in life? Pretty simple answer it seems like to me.
No, it's a complex answer because it depends on what makes the person happy.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2009-10-20 19:36:17
Wreckognize
Member
+294|6772
Big picture.  The little things seem to work themselves out.
2009-10-20 19:36:39
Pochsy
Artifice of Eternity
+702|5830|Toronto
I completely disagree with your premise and thus conclusion. 'The big picture' and 'the roses' are invariably part of the same picture, and an ability to see and understand both sides of a dichotomy is indispensable. You must attempt, attempt being key, to master both sides; on Tuesday you smell roses, and on Wednesday you smell rose gardens. The idea that both are mutually exclusive is absurd. For how would one establish 'the big picture' without the subtle nuances of 'the little things' to guide him? Given your logic you've answered your own question (if we continue to discredit the middle ground); you must look at the individual rose, for the rose garden has no meaning without it.

Maybe it is your extremely flimsy (actually I should say non-existent) explanation of what the big and little picture are, and in what context this debate is to take place that limit my ability to see the strength of your argument.

EDIT- and I'm going to bed. Just re-read OP, you mean in terms of what give a man happiness? Eh...my point still stands. Small picture gives the big meaning- you have to have the first to have the other- so you better know both. Middle ground for me constitutes being able to switch, and this is necessity in my belief.

Last edited by Pochsy (2009-10-20 19:41:52)

The shape of an eye in front of the ocean, digging for stones and throwing them against its window pane. Take it down dreamer, take it down deep. - Other Families
2009-10-20 19:40:34
13urnzz
Banned
+5,830|6784

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

burnzz wrote:

i'd like to tell you something FM that will help you out immensely, but it won't for another twenty years.
would you like to know now?
yes plz
son, i am disappoint. the answer was in the question . . . Time. Time gives perspective. Size just changes it.
2009-10-20 19:43:50
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5873

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

You're the Phil guy here FM
lol

The big picture counter would be is personal happiness an appropriate goal in life? Pretty simple answer it seems like to me.
It's an obvious yes.

Nothing happens after this life, so personal happiness should be the biggest goal in this life.

Having high moral standards is just a pitfall in which most people fall into and never achieve true happiness because they are shooting for the morals set by dead religious figures.
2009-10-20 20:30:42
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5645|London, England

Macbeth wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

You're the Phil guy here FM
lol

The big picture counter would be is personal happiness an appropriate goal in life? Pretty simple answer it seems like to me.
It's an obvious yes.

Nothing happens after this life, so personal happiness should be the biggest goal in this life.

Having high moral standards is just a pitfall in which most people fall into and never achieve true happiness because they are shooting for the morals set by dead religious figures.
False, rational self interest and personal happiness do not always align. I may enjoy playing the tuba but choosing it for my career if I'm not very good, even though it makes me happy to play it, will lead to an unhappy life in the end.

Edit - The goal in life should be to find something that fits within your rational self interest while making you happy at the same time. Sadly, few people seem to succeed with this.

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2009-10-20 20:46:37)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2009-10-20 21:03:51
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6994|67.222.138.85

burnzz wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

burnzz wrote:

i'd like to tell you something FM that will help you out immensely, but it won't for another twenty years.
would you like to know now?
yes plz
son, i am disappoint. the answer was in the question . . . Time. Time gives perspective. Size just changes it.
But would I like to know now...yes. I would think that would save a lot of pain and troubles...but then maybe that's half the fun.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

You're the Phil guy here FM
lol

The big picture counter would be is personal happiness an appropriate goal in life? Pretty simple answer it seems like to me.
No, it's a complex answer because it depends on what makes the person happy.
The question is whether they should be happy or not. That precedes how to be happy.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:


lol

The big picture counter would be is personal happiness an appropriate goal in life? Pretty simple answer it seems like to me.
It's an obvious yes.

Nothing happens after this life, so personal happiness should be the biggest goal in this life.

Having high moral standards is just a pitfall in which most people fall into and never achieve true happiness because they are shooting for the morals set by dead religious figures.
False, rational self interest and personal happiness do not always align. I may enjoy playing the tuba but choosing it for my career if I'm not very good, even though it makes me happy to play it, will lead to an unhappy life in the end.

Edit - The goal in life should be to find something that fits within your rational self interest while making you happy at the same time. Sadly, few people seem to succeed with this.
This assumes your goal (object of self-interest) is something other than happiness.

Pochsy wrote:

I completely disagree with your premise and thus conclusion. 'The big picture' and 'the roses' are invariably part of the same picture, and an ability to see and understand both sides of a dichotomy is indispensable. You must attempt, attempt being key, to master both sides; on Tuesday you smell roses, and on Wednesday you smell rose gardens. The idea that both are mutually exclusive is absurd. For how would one establish 'the big picture' without the subtle nuances of 'the little things' to guide him? Given your logic you've answered your own question (if we continue to discredit the middle ground); you must look at the individual rose, for the rose garden has no meaning without it.
But the point is not to understand the rose or the rose garden, it is to determine which is more important. Do you truly take pleasure in the existence of a single rose, or in the well-being entire garden? You can't effectively pursue both - it takes a lifetime and more to appreciate either one.

Pochsy wrote:

Maybe it is your extremely flimsy (actually I should say non-existent) explanation of what the big and little picture are, and in what context this debate is to take place that limit my ability to see the strength of your argument.
I avoided it because it inevitably means different things to different people, and I'm not going to open that can of worms. The only thing I can say is think of the idea you hold most dear, and question why you value it. Then take the most trivial thing you find amusing, and look for enjoyment in something even more trivial.

Pochsy wrote:

EDIT- and I'm going to bed. Just re-read OP, you mean in terms of what give a man happiness? Eh...my point still stands. Small picture gives the big meaning- you have to have the first to have the other- so you better know both. Middle ground for me constitutes being able to switch, and this is necessity in my belief.
If happiness is what you believe life's goal is...
2009-10-21 02:32:18
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6393|eXtreme to the maX
What level of perspective should someone use to get the most out of life?
You need to have an in depth understanding of every level.

You need to focus on the important levels, keeping sight of the others.
Which these are will depend on the situation and on your position in it.

Beyond this I cannot help young paduan.
Fuck Israel
2009-10-21 03:33:35
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7097|Nårvei

When you start drinking beer FM you will discard all your childish philosophical ideas
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
2009-10-21 03:44:08
jsnipy
...
+3,277|6809|...

Random extreme behavior
2009-10-21 03:47:12
Zimmer
Un Moderador
+1,688|7043|Scotland

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

If happiness is what you believe life's goal is...
But then, what is life's goal?

I try and look at both from time to time. But I usually hang out on the bigger picture, because I feel if affects me less emotionally. If I don't take notice of the small details, then they wont eat away at me. If I don't care for one rose that is dying but for the whole garden that is still fully alive, then I feel more satisfied with myself. You can say that that is avoiding certain parts of life, and I would agree, but sometimes we need to do that to survive. I'm not in the mental place right now to take a look at the rose and see what I can do to help it or worry about it. Maybe in a years time I'll change back.

 

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