Poll

What about some rational discussion about the border?

America should enforce her borders 87% 87% - 41 12% 12% - 6
Limits should be placed on the number of immigrants 65% 65% - 31 34% 34% - 16
To suggest border control makes you a racist 27% 27% - 13 72% 72% - 34
Only Hispanics should be able to bypass laws 25% 25% - 12 74% 74% - 35
Borders are lines on a map no more no less 29% 29% - 14 70% 70% - 33
Only the U.S. doesn't deserve a border 25% 25% - 12 74% 74% - 35
Lets mirror Mexicos immigration policies 51% 51% - 24 48% 48% - 23
Mexico and the U.S. should merge 36% 36% - 17 63% 63% - 30
Total: 47
yerded
Bertinator
+255|6924|Westminster, California
Create a application process that will allow;
1. Migrants NOW employed  to be allowed to stay so long as they are currently employed and  completed the application process and pay a  token fine of say $1,000.00 .
2. Legal drivers licenses combined with mandatory auto insurance.
3. A special class of Social Security accounts for these migrant workers whereupon  taxes are withheld, and individual accounts created where their withholdings are held until they leave or retire.
4. I.D. cards that allow reasonable transit to and fro between nations.

Employers should be compelled to hire only these workers who have completed the process with Draconian penalties for violations. Illegal immigration from that point forward would also be dealt with harshly enough as to make people unlikely to come here without completing the process. Human smuggling could even be considered a capital offense.  Companies needing workers could apply for qualified workers and have them the same day, just as they do now, illegally at day labor sites.
     As part of this reconciliation Mexico would have to be more cooperative extraditing wanted criminals hiding now in that country. They would also have to repatriate all felons now incarcerated in the United States.
     In the unlikely event that such a agreement was ever reached the United States would then be justified in building a impassable wall. The way things are now are pathetic. You can’t have 12 million people in our country that,  we pretend aren’t here. And if we don’t do something, America is doomed.
     I invite all intelligent debate.
IronFerret
Member
+48|6944|Mexico City.
Most mexicans crosing the border dont want to stay in US, the fact is they want to come back (becose of family and stuff), but crossing border its becoming expensive and dangerous year after year (thats why they stay there). Thats why mexicans send money back, its not like asian inmigrants that go there to stay there and start a bussines.

i think the best is:

1.-enforce border security (growing number of mexicans die crosing the border)
2.-law enforce agains human dealers (they corrupt bot mexican and us autorities, break human rigths)
3.-temporary work program.. as long as some bussines require work force why not?
4.-also a temporary work program can give control to crossing
5.-non ridicoulous inmigration laws.. i mean i got american visa and its so anoying.. they kind of treat you like a criminal in the process.
6.-theres lot of trade and bussines relation, why keep the burocratic process so hard, no single mexican i know want go live in US.

Mexican population is not so against US like it used to be, now because of NAFTA. but late events arent helping.. most people i know seems late laws as plain racism.. myself aint shure.. reading some post arround here make me doubt.  I certainly think this isnt iraq or iran.. dont know why so much paranoia.. mexicans arent gonna take over california.

US has promote globalization and comerce trought the world (imigration is a side efect). Why they have to deal everything like a national treat? this is a economical, social problem, anyone seeing an attempt to war is just making the problem harder, growing anger and making social tension fuel for violence.

Last edited by IronFerret (2006-05-03 19:04:13)

yerded
Bertinator
+255|6924|Westminster, California
Sorry folks I mess up the poll.
chitlin
Banned
+36|7050
How funny is it that people who dont respect our soverign border and take advantage of our democratic right of free speech and open forums decide to ignore the fact that they havent participated in our citizenship program choose not to learn the language or history yet try to identify themselves as "american". Its allways labeled as "anti-immigrant" which is simply an emotional repsonse used to pull strings and if the foot was on the other hand it is reasonable to assume that mexico and other countries who recieve a massive invasion of millions of people not respecting thier borders would be rejected violently. Having immigrant laws is important, america doesnt have an accept abosoltuly any immigrant policy yet they continue to violate our borders and expect immunity from our laws totally ignoring our immigration policies intending to write thier own legislation.

I read about a legal mexican immigrant who served in world war 2 and vietnam that said "you do not speak for me" in respect to illegal immigration protestants. Im a decedant of immigrants and my ancestors as well as hundreds of thousands of others who followed the policies and laws of america and these mexicans who expect immunity from these laws of the government of the united states beign compeletely ignored is a slap in the face of every immigrant in america who followed these laws and made a life for themsleves here.
Akmad_Alzir
Member
+6|6884
"Only Hispanics should be able to bypass laws"

A poorly worded yes or no question. No one should be able to bypass laws.
MooseRyder
Member
+37|6942|Montréal, Canada
the US borders been enforced A LOT but on the wrong side.

Im in Canada and before 9/11 i was abble to pass the borders almost without stopping. They would ask me where im going and if im canadian and thats all.

Now, You need to give the guy, passport, driver license, another card just to make sure it you. Once they even ask my car papers. Ask tons of questions, and thats if when they dont decide to search your car.

I think they should put back the borders as when they were before 9/11 and put more attention on the south borders to stop the illegal people getting thru USA.
yerded
Bertinator
+255|6924|Westminster, California

IronFerret wrote:

Most mexicans crosing the border dont want to stay in US, the fact is they want to come back (becose of family and stuff), but crossing border its becoming expensive and dangerous year after year (thats why they stay there). Thats why mexicans send money back, its not like asian inmigrants that go there to stay there and start a bussines.

i think the best is:

1.-enforce border security (growing number of mexicans die crosing the border)
2.-law enforce agains human dealers (they corrupt bot mexican and us autorities, break human rigths)
3.-temporary work program.. as long as some bussines require work force why not?
4.-also a temporary work program can give control to crossing
5.-non ridicoulous inmigration laws.. i mean i got american visa and its so anoying.. they kind of treat you like a criminal in the process.
6.-theres lot of trade and bussines relation, why keep the burocratic process so hard, no single mexican i know want go live in US.

Mexican population is not so against US like it used to be, now because of NAFTA. but late events arent helping.. most people i know seems late laws as plain racism.. myself aint shure.. reading some post arround here make me doubt.  I certainly think this isnt iraq or iran.. dont know why so much paranoia.. mexicans arent gonna take over california.

US has promote globalization and comerce trought the world (imigration is a side efect). Why they have to deal everything like a national treat? this is a economical, social problem, anyone seeing an attempt to war is just making the problem harder, growing anger and making social tension fuel for violence.
It could be that Americans see our government doing nothing, and it makes us nervous. We have elections but the results don't seem to count for much so maybe that's why "Why they have to deal everything like a national threat". It's much easier to blame the illegal aliens than it is to force our government to do some realistic meaningful change.


     I was going to say in my first post here but decided not to because it instantly brings the charge of hypocracy, that I am a contractor in California who hires illegal aliens. I'd prefer a all legal work force, and we pay damn good wages, but it hasn't happened to be that we could hire many citizens. One of my workers lives a fantastic life here and he makes $20-25 dollars per hour. I don't have the slightest idea what people mean when they say all immigrant workers are paid slave wages. I have a friend in Tenancingo Mexico who is trying to start a business and is having a hard time finding workers even though the pay starts at 20% higher than the average wage.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply and I'm doubly pleased to hear a great responce come from Mexico City. Bueno trabajo amigo!
IronFerret
Member
+48|6944|Mexico City.

MooseRyder wrote:

the US borders been enforced A LOT but on the wrong side.

Im in Canada and before 9/11 i was abble to pass the borders almost without stopping. They would ask me where im going and if im canadian and thats all.

Now, You need to give the guy, passport, driver license, another card just to make sure it you. Once they even ask my car papers. Ask tons of questions, and thats if when they dont decide to search your car.

I think they should put back the borders as when they were before 9/11 and put more attention on the south borders to stop the illegal people getting thru USA..
i was in vancouver last summer, i cross to Seatle.. you dont have idea whats "enforce security" canada border is like disneyland.. try cross Tijuana border.. you will find a headache..

Experts said that a terrorist attack its more likely to come trough canada (weak security-large border).. dont have reference now.. but i have read that like 3 times.

Last edited by IronFerret (2006-05-03 22:21:46)

MooseRyder
Member
+37|6942|Montréal, Canada

IronFerret wrote:

MooseRyder wrote:

the US borders been enforced A LOT but on the wrong side.

Im in Canada and before 9/11 i was abble to pass the borders almost without stopping. They would ask me where im going and if im canadian and thats all.

Now, You need to give the guy, passport, driver license, another card just to make sure it you. Once they even ask my car papers. Ask tons of questions, and thats if when they dont decide to search your car.

I think they should put back the borders as when they were before 9/11 and put more attention on the south borders to stop the illegal people getting thru USA..
i was in vancouver last summer, i cross to Seatle.. you dont have idea whats "enforce security" canada border is like disneyland.. try cross Tijuana border.. you will find a headache..

Experts said that a terrorist attack its more likely to come trough canada (weak security-large border).. dont have reference now.. but i have read that like 3 times.
yes but you are american right?
IronFerret
Member
+48|6944|Mexico City.
No, Im mexican my grandparents were spanish, but i born and live here.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6888|132 and Bush

chitlin wrote:

How funny is it that people who dont respect our soverign border and take advantage of our democratic right of free speech and open forums decide to ignore the fact that they havent participated in our citizenship program choose not to learn the language or history yet try to identify themselves as "american". Its allways labeled as "anti-immigrant" which is simply an emotional repsonse used to pull strings and if the foot was on the other hand it is reasonable to assume that mexico and other countries who recieve a massive invasion of millions of people not respecting thier borders would be rejected violently. Having immigrant laws is important, america doesnt have an accept abosoltuly any immigrant policy yet they continue to violate our borders and expect immunity from our laws totally ignoring our immigration policies intending to write thier own legislation.

I read about a legal mexican immigrant who served in world war 2 and vietnam that said "you do not speak for me" in respect to illegal immigration protestants. Im a decedant of immigrants and my ancestors as well as hundreds of thousands of others who followed the policies and laws of america and these mexicans who expect immunity from these laws of the government of the united states beign compeletely ignored is a slap in the face of every immigrant in america who followed these laws and made a life for themsleves here.
Wow did he get banned for that?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
yerded
Bertinator
+255|6924|Westminster, California

Kmarion wrote:

chitlin wrote:

How funny is it that people who dont respect our soverign border and take advantage of our democratic right of free speech and open forums decide to ignore the fact that they havent participated in our citizenship program choose not to learn the language or history yet try to identify themselves as "american". Its allways labeled as "anti-immigrant" which is simply an emotional repsonse used to pull strings and if the foot was on the other hand it is reasonable to assume that mexico and other countries who recieve a massive invasion of millions of people not respecting thier borders would be rejected violently. Having immigrant laws is important, america doesnt have an accept abosoltuly any immigrant policy yet they continue to violate our borders and expect immunity from our laws totally ignoring our immigration policies intending to write thier own legislation.

I read about a legal mexican immigrant who served in world war 2 and vietnam that said "you do not speak for me" in respect to illegal immigration protestants. Im a decedant of immigrants and my ancestors as well as hundreds of thousands of others who followed the policies and laws of america and these mexicans who expect immunity from these laws of the government of the united states beign compeletely ignored is a slap in the face of every immigrant in america who followed these laws and made a life for themsleves here.
Wow did he get banned for that?
I doubt it was that. I was following a thread the other day and somebody started mouthing off to a wiki contributor, whom then asked for the admin here to ban him and they did. I made the mistake of negative karmaing one of the , shall go unnamed, mods and he threatened to ban me.

Its like my granddaddy used to say; " beware those with small powers for they tend to use them often." Becareful when talking smack it can get you promptly booted.
Shadovve
Member
+10|6890|Columbus, OH
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/005818.htm
http://michellemalkin.com/archives/004869.htm

This is a bigger problem than most of us realize.  I am seeing a growing Sentiment, that the desire to keep our borders secure, and keep out those that would enter the country legally, is Racism.  I can't believe the latest trend of the Mexican illegals attempting to attach the Mexican flag to their cause.  It is not a US Vs Mexico Issue (and thank god for that, how long to you really think Mexico would last against a full on US offensive).  I found a great Quote that I think sums it up.


Teddy Roosevelt wrote:

In the first place we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the man's becoming in very fact an American, and nothing but an American...


...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag, and this excludes the red flag, which symbolizes all wars against liberty and civilization, just as much as it excludes any foreign flag of a nation to which we are hostile...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people.
If you wish to come to this country legally, welcome.  I don't care if you are coming just to work, and send the money home.  Please make your life, and the lives of your family better, thats all we all want.  If you are here to stay, welcome to you as well.  Please share pieces of your culture with us.  I love new foods, and learning about traditions ans customs.  But do it legally.

If you are here illegally, GO HOME, I DON'T WANT YOU HERE!!!!!!!!  It's not a racist thing Its about obeying the laws that make this such a great place to come in the first place.

Edited to identify qoute

Last edited by Shadovve (2006-08-28 09:12:15)

jonsimon
Member
+224|6782
The Canadian border is appalling. So much for equal borders. The increased 'security' is a joke.
kr@cker
Bringin' Sexy Back!
+581|6836|Southeastern USA
I like the "coneheads" movie catch and release idea with the hotwire and dog collars
znozer
Viking fool - Crazy SWE
+162|6831|Sverige (SWE)
this was fun .... i don´t know but i just answer at random.. there where no options...
Red Forman
Banned
+402|5687

yerded wrote:

I doubt it was that. I was following a thread the other day and somebody started mouthing off to a wiki contributor, whom then asked for the admin here to ban him and they did. I made the mistake of negative karmaing one of the , shall go unnamed, mods and he threatened to ban me.

Its like my granddaddy used to say; " beware those with small powers for they tend to use them often." Becareful when talking smack it can get you promptly booted.
sucks eh?

first option btw

Last edited by Red Forman (2009-10-18 03:20:46)

AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6440|what

How do you get a Yes/No poll like that?



I'm so glad yerded isn't around any more, btw.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
Red Forman
Banned
+402|5687

AussieReaper wrote:

How do you get a Yes/No poll like that?
not sure.  would like it though.
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6962|Canberra, AUS
who  is this yerded fellow

what is this poll
all those options - they confuse me
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6440|what

Spark wrote:

who  is this yerded fellow
ATG.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6962|Canberra, AUS

AussieReaper wrote:

Spark wrote:

who  is this yerded fellow
ATG.
sarcasm, bro.

sarcasm.

i've been here long enough to recognise all the  old names.

Last edited by Spark (2009-10-18 04:24:29)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6440|what

Spark wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Spark wrote:

who  is this yerded fellow
ATG.
sarcasm, bro.

sarcasm.

i've been here long enough to recognise all the  old names.
Oh yeah, what's my old name?
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png

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