jesus christ. i said that because the only way to discuss it on here was to say that. how many times do i have to say that?Mekstizzle wrote:
You said you voted for Obama
Yes you can.Spark wrote:
You can't really blame people for not voting if the parties are too incompetent to actually have a policy platform that actually makes people want to vote.
IE. I don't think you can blame the surely low turnouts in next year's UK general election on 'voter apathy'.
Because when people do that and you get very low turnouts you often see people being elected who are not remotely representative of the views of the people (more so than usual).
An example being the ultra low turnout for the last rounds of European elections in the UK, which led to the BNP getting seats. That's the sort of thing that happens when you get high levels of voter apathy, which is why it should be avoided.
Is that voter apathy or voter disillusionment?Bertster7 wrote:
Yes you can.Spark wrote:
You can't really blame people for not voting if the parties are too incompetent to actually have a policy platform that actually makes people want to vote.
IE. I don't think you can blame the surely low turnouts in next year's UK general election on 'voter apathy'.
Because when people do that and you get very low turnouts you often see people being elected who are not remotely representative of the views of the people (more so than usual).
An example being the ultra low turnout for the last rounds of European elections in the UK, which led to the BNP getting seats. That's the sort of thing that happens when you get high levels of voter apathy, which is why it should be avoided.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
I suppose Bush really didn't do as much for the free world as Obama has . If Bush had only gone on a European/world apology tour like Obama has, Bush woulda gained some love. Instead he just projected American strength to the enemies of western society, took the fight away from western society, and freed Iraq from a ruthless dictator and his sons. Damn that Bush!CameronPoe wrote:
We do care about Obama, in that he is the President of a powerful and influential country, but we aren't stupid enough to believe that he is better than any other politician. And yes we hate Bush with an unfathomable level of loathing.lowing wrote:
So, Europe does not care about or love Obama, (no proof of that), they just hate Bush. THis is the story you wanna stick with?
You really don't understand why people hate Bush do you? And you have no interest in understanding either, amirite?lowing wrote:
I suppose Bush really didn't do as much for the free world as Obama has . If Bush had only gone on a European/world apology tour like Obama has, Bush woulda gained some love. Instead he just projected American strength to the enemies of western society, took the fight away from western society, and freed Iraq from a ruthless dictator and his sons. Damn that Bush!
Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-10-11 15:06:14)
Apathy.Spark wrote:
Is that voter apathy or voter disillusionment?Bertster7 wrote:
Yes you can.Spark wrote:
You can't really blame people for not voting if the parties are too incompetent to actually have a policy platform that actually makes people want to vote.
IE. I don't think you can blame the surely low turnouts in next year's UK general election on 'voter apathy'.
Because when people do that and you get very low turnouts you often see people being elected who are not remotely representative of the views of the people (more so than usual).
An example being the ultra low turnout for the last rounds of European elections in the UK, which led to the BNP getting seats. That's the sort of thing that happens when you get high levels of voter apathy, which is why it should be avoided.
Not disillusionment. The BNP got the same sort of level of votes they usually get, from extremist right wing nut-jobs. The other parties got fewer votes due to much lower turnout. The BNP won some seats.
Yup I do, he didn't kiss Europes ass. He had a job to do, regardless as to how unpopular it was to Europes self interests, and he did it anyway. He projected strength in the face of our enemies and Europeans hate that.CameronPoe wrote:
You really don't understand why people hate Bush do you? And you have no interest in understanding either, amirite?lowing wrote:
I suppose Bush really didn't do as much for the free world as Obama has . If Bush had only gone on a European/world apology tour like Obama has, Bush woulda gained some love. Instead he just projected American strength to the enemies of western society, took the fight away from western society, and freed Iraq from a ruthless dictator and his sons. Damn that Bush!
Last edited by lowing (2009-10-11 15:14:30)
Well there you go right there. You have no idea and your quote confirms it. It's nowhere near as simplistic as you would have it. He projected strength in an irresponsible manner spreading anarchy across the world. GG. He took double standards to a new stratosphere with the Palestine/Israel conflict. GG. He deregulated investment banks to dangerously irresponsible levels and failed to quell a global economic implosion born in America. GG. He appeared moronic and semi-literate in public. GG. He wore his religion on his sleeve. GG. He had no interest at all whatsoever in diplomacy. GG. He achieved nothing in Iraq or Afghanistan. GG. He created a modern Gulag in the western part of Cuba. GG. What a nice guy he is.... lollowing wrote:
Yup I do, he didn't kiss Europes ass. He had a job to do, regardless as to how unpopular it was to Europes self interests, and he did it anyway. He projected strength and Europeans hate that.
He achieved practically nothing only anarchy, division, death, economic strangulation and hatred.
We didn't hate the projection of strength into Afghanistan. We fully understood it. So your comment about what you believe Europeans hate is misguided. I don't expect you to take the time to understand the nuances and logic of what you are discussing here but at least make an effort.
PS Europe isn't interested in a dick-measuring contest with the US in case you haven't realised. We largely left imperialism behind in the 1960s/1970s. We're quite content with our lives over here minding our own business so long as our business and those of our neighbours aren't interfered with.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-10-11 15:32:18)
hey why didnt clinton get a nobel shit prize? they gave one to every democrap president in the past 40 years except him.
John Hume and David Trimble usurped it.Red Forman wrote:
hey why didnt clinton get a nobel shit prize? they gave one to every democrap president in the past 40 years except him.
You hated Bush long before the collapse the global economy was even for seen or cared about. 8 years of Bush and the economy collapsed 3 months before he left. SO you can stow that bullshit.CameronPoe wrote:
Well there you go right there. You have no idea and your quote confirms it. He projected strength in an irresponsible manner spreading anarchy across the world. GG. He took double standards to a new stratosphere with the Palestine/Israel conflict. GG. He deregulated investment banks to dangerously irresponsible levels and failed to quell a global economic implosion born in America. GG. He appeared moronic and semi-literate in public. GG. He wore his religion on his sleeve. GG. He had no interest at all whatsoever in diplomacy. GG. He achieved nothing in Iraq or Afghanistan. GG. He created a modern Gulag in the western part of Cuba. GG. What a nice guy he is.... lollowing wrote:
Yup I do, he didn't kiss Europes ass. He had a job to do, regardless as to how unpopular it was to Europes self interests, and he did it anyway. He projected strength and Europeans hate that.
He achieved practically nothing only anarchy, division, death, economic strangulation and hatred.
We didn't hate the projection of strength into Afghanistan. We fully understood it. So your comment about what you believe Europeans hate is misguided. I don't expect you to take the time to understand the nuances and logic of what you are discussing here but at least make an effort.
PS Europe isn't interested in a dick-measuring contest with the US in case you haven't realised. We largely left imperialism behind in the 1960s/1970s. We're quite content with our lives over here minding our own business so long as our business and those of our neighbours aren't interfered with.
Diplomacy was tried for 10 years before came to power regarding Iraq, diplomatic efforts were failed and you know it. Europe is only pissed off because they lost a bedfellow when Saddam was removed.
Since when is removing a tyrannical dictator and his sons and freeing a nation doing nothing? As far as the "detainees", I agree they shoulda died on the battlefield instead of being recirculated into combat.
He didn't take a double standard he took a side, the correct one I might add, Israel is here to stay, ( oh and he didn't created it) any effort to now destroy it is hostile.
"He achieved practically nothing only anarchy, division, death, economic strangulation and hatred." <----- he fought back against this, not created this. Unless of course he created it by standing up and fighting back and not appeasing.
The rest of your bullshit is nothing more than opinion, and you are welcome to it.
Last edited by lowing (2009-10-11 15:46:52)
Fair points there (well, one of them)....lowing wrote:
You hated BUsh long before the collapse the glogal econamy was even forseen or cared about. 8 years of Bush and the economy collapsed 3 months before he left. SO you can stow that bullshit.CameronPoe wrote:
Well there you go right there. You have no idea and your quote confirms it. He projected strength in an irresponsible manner spreading anarchy across the world. GG. He took double standards to a new stratosphere with the Palestine/Israel conflict. GG. He deregulated investment banks to dangerously irresponsible levels and failed to quell a global economic implosion born in America. GG. He appeared moronic and semi-literate in public. GG. He wore his religion on his sleeve. GG. He had no interest at all whatsoever in diplomacy. GG. He achieved nothing in Iraq or Afghanistan. GG. He created a modern Gulag in the western part of Cuba. GG. What a nice guy he is.... lollowing wrote:
Yup I do, he didn't kiss Europes ass. He had a job to do, regardless as to how unpopular it was to Europes self interests, and he did it anyway. He projected strength and Europeans hate that.
He achieved practically nothing only anarchy, division, death, economic strangulation and hatred.
We didn't hate the projection of strength into Afghanistan. We fully understood it. So your comment about what you believe Europeans hate is misguided. I don't expect you to take the time to understand the nuances and logic of what you are discussing here but at least make an effort.
PS Europe isn't interested in a dick-measuring contest with the US in case you haven't realised. We largely left imperialism behind in the 1960s/1970s. We're quite content with our lives over here minding our own business so long as our business and those of our neighbours aren't interfered with.
Diplomicy wa tried for 10 years before came to power regarding Iraq, diplomatic efforts were failed and you know it. Europe is only pissed off because they lost a bedfellow when Saddam was removed.
Since when is removing a tyranical dictator and his sons and freeing a nation doing nothing? As far as the "detainees", I agree they shoulda died on the battlefield instead of being recirculated into combat.
He didn't take a double standard he took a side, the correct one I might add, Israel is here tostay, ( oh and he didn't created it) any effort to now destroy it is hostile.
THe rest of your busllshit is nothing more than opinion, and you are welcome to it.
But it raises another point - Europeans hated Bush long before he did anything that "projected strength".
Why did Europeans hate Bush from the start?
That's pretty much it, I reckon.He appeared moronic and semi-literate in public. GG. He wore his religion on his sleeve. GG.
Not that you can't be an idiot and be successful with the voters in Europe - just look at Borris.
Last edited by Bertster7 (2009-10-11 15:46:52)
lol, somehow all that time where the US was with Saddam is suddenly forgotten.lowing wrote:
Europe is only pissed off because they lost a bedfellow when Saddam was removed.
I think the main reason was actually because the war was very unnecessary and that Afghanistan was already going on which was a much more just and necessary conflict.
There's no point arguing about the Iraq War though. You are always going to think it was a just war that was absolutely needed. Especially because you went on to personally profit from it.
Your mentality and logic is that because people were against the Iraq war that must have meant that people loved Saddam Hussein. I can't even be fucked saying anything...
All the anti-Bush stuff came around mainly after Iraq. Before that things weren't even so bad. Even in terms of the Muslim world and everyone else. Iraq really fucked up alot of shit though.
Last edited by Mekstizzle (2009-10-11 15:48:05)
Because hindsight on the economy makes us love him so much more than we originally did....lowing wrote:
You hated BUsh long before the collapse the glogal econamy was even forseen or cared about. 8 years of Bush and the economy collapsed 3 months before he left. SO you can stow that bullshit.
It took the US two weeks to topple a 'real and present danger' that was quite evidently anything but. It was fucking horseshit - all to do with oil, strategic advantage and regional power-playing - all morally wrong reasons to go to war. It was dressed up with lies, hypocrisy, shoddy intel and the pretence that it was done for the Iraqis - who largely deeply resent the US intervention and continued presence. Iraq is not a fucking free nation by any stretch of the imagination you delusional fool. FACT. You feign concern for Iraqis when you utterly despise muslims from the bottom of your dirty soul. Give me a fucking break.lowing wrote:
Diplomicy wa tried for 10 years before came to power regarding Iraq, diplomatic efforts were failed and you know it. Europe is only pissed off because they lost a bedfellow when Saddam was removed.
Since when is removing a tyranical dictator and his sons and freeing a nation doing nothing? As far as the "detainees", I agree they shoulda died on the battlefield instead of being recirculated into combat.
He took a side, thereby becoming a hypocrite with no principles and no sense of justice. FACT. The creation of Israel turned Palestinians into what the Jews had been, dispossessed wanderers or oppressed subjects. But of course Bush couldn't play fair now could he. He had to announce that he would turn a blind eye to further transgressions of the Geneva Convention on the part of Israel (settlements).lowing wrote:
He didn't take a double standard he took a side, the correct one I might add, Israel is here tostay, ( oh and he didn't created it) any effort to now destroy it is hostile.
Oh yeah, things were so anarchic everywhere before Bush came along. lol... Thanks for pushing the Taliban and Al Qaeda into nuclear-capable Pakistan. GG.lowing wrote:
"He achieved practically nothing only anarchy, division, death, economic strangulation and hatred." <----- he fought back against this, not created this. Unless of course he created it by standing up and fighting back and not appeasing.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-10-11 16:02:18)
Yeah, that's actually probably one of the funniest things when it comes to die hard pro-war ultraconservatives.CameronPoe wrote:
You feign concern for Iraqis when you utterly despise muslims from the bottom of your dirty soul.
Shall we discuss Obamas faux pas and mis-quotes that he gets passes on?Bertster7 wrote:
Fair points there (well, one of them)....lowing wrote:
You hated BUsh long before the collapse the glogal econamy was even forseen or cared about. 8 years of Bush and the economy collapsed 3 months before he left. SO you can stow that bullshit.CameronPoe wrote:
Well there you go right there. You have no idea and your quote confirms it. He projected strength in an irresponsible manner spreading anarchy across the world. GG. He took double standards to a new stratosphere with the Palestine/Israel conflict. GG. He deregulated investment banks to dangerously irresponsible levels and failed to quell a global economic implosion born in America. GG. He appeared moronic and semi-literate in public. GG. He wore his religion on his sleeve. GG. He had no interest at all whatsoever in diplomacy. GG. He achieved nothing in Iraq or Afghanistan. GG. He created a modern Gulag in the western part of Cuba. GG. What a nice guy he is.... lol
He achieved practically nothing only anarchy, division, death, economic strangulation and hatred.
We didn't hate the projection of strength into Afghanistan. We fully understood it. So your comment about what you believe Europeans hate is misguided. I don't expect you to take the time to understand the nuances and logic of what you are discussing here but at least make an effort.
PS Europe isn't interested in a dick-measuring contest with the US in case you haven't realised. We largely left imperialism behind in the 1960s/1970s. We're quite content with our lives over here minding our own business so long as our business and those of our neighbours aren't interfered with.
Diplomicy wa tried for 10 years before came to power regarding Iraq, diplomatic efforts were failed and you know it. Europe is only pissed off because they lost a bedfellow when Saddam was removed.
Since when is removing a tyranical dictator and his sons and freeing a nation doing nothing? As far as the "detainees", I agree they shoulda died on the battlefield instead of being recirculated into combat.
He didn't take a double standard he took a side, the correct one I might add, Israel is here tostay, ( oh and he didn't created it) any effort to now destroy it is hostile.
THe rest of your busllshit is nothing more than opinion, and you are welcome to it.
But it raises another point - Europeans hated Bush long before he did anything that "projected strength".
Why did Europeans hate Bush from the start?That's pretty much it, I reckon.He appeared moronic and semi-literate in public. GG. He wore his religion on his sleeve. GG.
Not that you can't be an idiot and be successful with the voters in Europe - just look at Borris.
why do you guys get so fucking personalMekstizzle wrote:
Yeah, that's actually probably one of the funniest things when it comes to die hard pro-war ultraconservatives.CameronPoe wrote:
You feign concern for Iraqis when you utterly despise muslims from the bottom of your dirty soul.
Global buddies/enemies change all the time skeetle. Nation states are always doing what they believe to be in their best interest at the time. Hypocritical? Maybe. Reality? Definitely.Mekstizzle wrote:
lol, somehow all that time where the US was with Saddam is suddenly forgotten.lowing wrote:
Europe is only pissed off because they lost a bedfellow when Saddam was removed.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
It's not about what they actually say or do, it's about the overall impression. Obama gives the impression that he is fairly intelligent, Bush comes across as a blithering idiot.lowing wrote:
Shall we discuss Obamas faux pas and mis-quotes that he gets passes on?Bertster7 wrote:
Fair points there (well, one of them)....lowing wrote:
You hated BUsh long before the collapse the glogal econamy was even forseen or cared about. 8 years of Bush and the economy collapsed 3 months before he left. SO you can stow that bullshit.
Diplomicy wa tried for 10 years before came to power regarding Iraq, diplomatic efforts were failed and you know it. Europe is only pissed off because they lost a bedfellow when Saddam was removed.
Since when is removing a tyranical dictator and his sons and freeing a nation doing nothing? As far as the "detainees", I agree they shoulda died on the battlefield instead of being recirculated into combat.
He didn't take a double standard he took a side, the correct one I might add, Israel is here tostay, ( oh and he didn't created it) any effort to now destroy it is hostile.
THe rest of your busllshit is nothing more than opinion, and you are welcome to it.
But it raises another point - Europeans hated Bush long before he did anything that "projected strength".
Why did Europeans hate Bush from the start?That's pretty much it, I reckon.He appeared moronic and semi-literate in public. GG. He wore his religion on his sleeve. GG.
Not that you can't be an idiot and be successful with the voters in Europe - just look at Borris.
But if you really want to start bringing quotes into it:
Bush wrote:
I know the human being and fish can coexist peacefully.
They misunderestimated me.
Rarely is the questioned asked: Is our children learning?Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.
I promise you I will listen to what has been said here, even though I wasn't here.
You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror.
Goodbye from the world's biggest polluter.
"The most important thing is for us to find Osama bin Laden. It is our number one priority and we will not rest until we find him." --Washington, D.C., Sept. 13, 2001
"I don't know where bin Laden is. I have no idea and really don't care. It's not that important. It's not our priority." --Washington, D.C., March 13, 2002
There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee -- that says, fool me once, shame on --shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again.
I'll be long gone before some smart person ever figures out what happened inside this Oval Office.
Last edited by Bertster7 (2009-10-11 16:00:53)
Speaking of forgetting things. Why is it that Carter gets the prize when he put forth the policy that virtually guaranteed the US involvement in the ME?Red Forman wrote:
why do you guys get so fucking personalMekstizzle wrote:
Yeah, that's actually probably one of the funniest things when it comes to die hard pro-war ultraconservatives.CameronPoe wrote:
You feign concern for Iraqis when you utterly despise muslims from the bottom of your dirty soul.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Time for work now. We are a socialist nation now, and some one out there has earned my living. I must go provide for them. Be back tomorrow.
troof hurts.Red Forman wrote:
why do you guys get so fucking personalMekstizzle wrote:
Yeah, that's actually probably one of the funniest things when it comes to die hard pro-war ultraconservatives.CameronPoe wrote:
You feign concern for Iraqis when you utterly despise muslims from the bottom of your dirty soul.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
well when i say i think some of you smile when israeli soldiers die you would get your panties in a wad.m3thod wrote:
troof hurts.Red Forman wrote:
why do you guys get so fucking personalMekstizzle wrote:
Yeah, that's actually probably one of the funniest things when it comes to die hard pro-war ultraconservatives.
And it worked out oh so well didn't it?lowing wrote:
Yup I do, he didn't kiss Europes ass. He had a job to do, regardless as to how unpopular it was to Europes self interests, and he did it anyway. He projected strength in the face of our enemies and Europeans hate that.
Letting AQ escape into Pakistan and re-directing the military against Iraq, when apparently the enemy is actually Iran?
How's the economy BTW?
Fuck Israel