ill agree with you only on this
siciliano732 wrote:
...this is an endless argument.
thats why i put it there because this is an endless argument, and i dont expect you people to agree.....everything is done by choice and faith...so it doesnt matter i choose my path you choose yours....its whatever....because 17 pages of threads basically saying the same thing....with the same points....and no one listening.....hence the ENDLESS ARGUMENT.
God Bless....or whatever you believe in.
God Bless....or whatever you believe in.
Lets not go here. This is something for Albert Einsten and the Quantum physicists to argue in heaven.raz wrote:
No, no, no, your not getting my point..JaMDuDe wrote:
Its more like there being a room and he says theres a table inside and you say there isnt but the doors closed so neither of you can see whats there.
lol
My point is WEEEE CAN ALL SEE that nothing is there, but instead of him saying he can prove a table/something is there, he wants me/us to prove something ISN'T there. Which is diabolical.
PLEASE STOP SAYING THAT WHAT YOU BELIEVE IS INHERENTLY TRUE!so he is brainwashed because he believes something....something he believes and to him he knows is truth....I believe in the same truth, as did the girl who was shot and killed in Columbine for her faith and admitance to believe in Jesus Christ, the one true God. You are basing your arguements on opinion and philosophical things....not true occurances and proficy that continues to unfold and be proven true. Secondly, you critisize and fail to see the truth because you do not want to see....seek and you shall find. For me, and what seems to be for JamDude....we have sought after Christ and just like his word tells us, he is there...Revalation 3:20 - "Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, then I will come in to him, and will dine with him, and he with me.".....those who disagree, you just do not want to turn back and believe that God exists, let alone sent his PERFECT son, to earth to die a painful death to save your sins and an opportunity to enter the kingdom of heaven.....its all a choice, as for me i choose Christ and would rather know i am going somewhere when my flesh dies rather than in the ground....or not believe and end up Christians and others who have accepted Christ as their personal savior...and spend eternity in hell.....i just dont think its for me.....
I believe it is true TO AN EXTENT. I think that a lot of the bible is historically false, but still an excellent thing to base your morals and ethics on.
'its all a choice, as for me i choose Christ and would rather know i am going somewhere when my flesh dies rather than in the ground....or not believe and end up Christians and others who have accepted Christ as their personal savior...and spend eternity in hell.....i just dont think its for me.....'
I fear that you will use religion to hide from the world. To have an excuse not to live life to the full. If you don't then you have more reason to be in heaven than in hell (what have you done to deserve a spot?).
However, there is a problem with your argument (again).
1. They don't say 'screw it, i'll just go to hell'. They don't even think hell exists! Anyway, what evidence do you have that the teachings of the Taoists aren't nearly as relevant as yours?
2. Again, I don't think God would punish people simply because of their religion. I think he cares more about good works than which temple you pray in (after all, some people A. Can't be christian or B. Never heard of christianity)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
bro, im not saying they are saying screw it....i understand "they" think it doesnt exist....
i agree with part B of your second argument though....there are people out there who practice other religions who may never have gotten or got the chance to hear of Jahovah and their time in the world was up....it is all so confusing and contradicting, so i understand why people dont believe but....i dunno....lol...i know what i believe but i dont think as humans we can fully comprehend or even get an exact grasp on things because partially we pick and choose what we want to believe....me i use the Bible as the basis of my Christian beliefs and teachings....but i do understand where you are coming from....
....yet again, an endless argument
one day will will all know the truth....some just know it sooner than others unfortunately
i agree with part B of your second argument though....there are people out there who practice other religions who may never have gotten or got the chance to hear of Jahovah and their time in the world was up....it is all so confusing and contradicting, so i understand why people dont believe but....i dunno....lol...i know what i believe but i dont think as humans we can fully comprehend or even get an exact grasp on things because partially we pick and choose what we want to believe....me i use the Bible as the basis of my Christian beliefs and teachings....but i do understand where you are coming from....
....yet again, an endless argument
one day will will all know the truth....some just know it sooner than others unfortunately
Last edited by siciliano732 (2006-04-11 23:54:59)
Im new to the Thread so ill write like if I was the first:
First of all, I am a non-beliver. My entire life I belived in god till I was 13. I lost my faith because of 2 things, one because many shits happened in my life that I prayed to god not to happened. Things that me as a christian, never should have happened. The other, was science. In it I found most of the answers I wanted to know. For example, how the world was created. The bible tells me it was made by a man, that said "I WANT LIGHT" and the sun appeared & that he wanted a being that would have control and we were made, (BTW I think thats a nice story 4 kindergarden kids) but science tells my the sun is a star, was made when...... (story is too long and i dont know it completely) and that humans are beings that evolved from Primates millions of years ago and has been evolving ever since. Which one has more sence? To me the science one.
In my opinion, christianity, like every other religion, was made to make humans more organized in civilization and make us respect laws more than without it. For example, christians have the 10 commandments, most of em are the same laws the goverment gives us, like "I shall not kill" and to maintain a civilization, the "I shall honor my father and mother" and HELL, if you r bad u go to hell thing. Im sure that 4 many others this is the most logical explanation. Im also a man of facts, I need to see the facts to belive in it. If god is the allmighty, the one no one can destroy, and if he really does exist, why doesnt he show himself, send us something that defenetly tells us he exists. This is were some might say: " He did, Jesus was the proof". WHat if Jesus was lying, what if he was really someone that just had the crazy idea to say, IM THE SON OF GOD, THE ONLY GOD THERE IS. (no wonder why the Romans were so pissed and nailed him to a cross. I do belive that Jesus existed, because he created christianity, I belive that he was killed, but I dont belive he ressurected.
At this time other might say: "But what about his body? And both Maria's saw him." Maybe his followers took his body out of the tomb and burried him somewhere else. And how many times our family and friends cover our mistakes, our lies... Maybe the Virgin with a son cover up his lies of ressurection.
After all its someones choice to have faith or not. Some do because they belive the stories, some don't because the same reasons I dont. Its all a choice, ur choice. Science, Facts, Reasons, Sence or Faith. No one, not even God himself if he exists, can change that.
PS: My post was based in what I think, to say what I belive, to answer the question made. Not to try to change faithful persons' minds. If you were offended in any way by what I just said, I TRULLY APOLOGIZE, but thats what this Tread is all about, say what you think. That is what I think.
First of all, I am a non-beliver. My entire life I belived in god till I was 13. I lost my faith because of 2 things, one because many shits happened in my life that I prayed to god not to happened. Things that me as a christian, never should have happened. The other, was science. In it I found most of the answers I wanted to know. For example, how the world was created. The bible tells me it was made by a man, that said "I WANT LIGHT" and the sun appeared & that he wanted a being that would have control and we were made, (BTW I think thats a nice story 4 kindergarden kids) but science tells my the sun is a star, was made when...... (story is too long and i dont know it completely) and that humans are beings that evolved from Primates millions of years ago and has been evolving ever since. Which one has more sence? To me the science one.
In my opinion, christianity, like every other religion, was made to make humans more organized in civilization and make us respect laws more than without it. For example, christians have the 10 commandments, most of em are the same laws the goverment gives us, like "I shall not kill" and to maintain a civilization, the "I shall honor my father and mother" and HELL, if you r bad u go to hell thing. Im sure that 4 many others this is the most logical explanation. Im also a man of facts, I need to see the facts to belive in it. If god is the allmighty, the one no one can destroy, and if he really does exist, why doesnt he show himself, send us something that defenetly tells us he exists. This is were some might say: " He did, Jesus was the proof". WHat if Jesus was lying, what if he was really someone that just had the crazy idea to say, IM THE SON OF GOD, THE ONLY GOD THERE IS. (no wonder why the Romans were so pissed and nailed him to a cross. I do belive that Jesus existed, because he created christianity, I belive that he was killed, but I dont belive he ressurected.
At this time other might say: "But what about his body? And both Maria's saw him." Maybe his followers took his body out of the tomb and burried him somewhere else. And how many times our family and friends cover our mistakes, our lies... Maybe the Virgin with a son cover up his lies of ressurection.
After all its someones choice to have faith or not. Some do because they belive the stories, some don't because the same reasons I dont. Its all a choice, ur choice. Science, Facts, Reasons, Sence or Faith. No one, not even God himself if he exists, can change that.
PS: My post was based in what I think, to say what I belive, to answer the question made. Not to try to change faithful persons' minds. If you were offended in any way by what I just said, I TRULLY APOLOGIZE, but thats what this Tread is all about, say what you think. That is what I think.
Not the ones who have seen demon possessions!JaMDuDe wrote:
Billions of people have seen miracles, demon possesions, and have seen what God can do in life. And christians go to heaven in most other major religions.
Im new to the Thread so ill write like if I was the first:
First of all, I am a non-beliver. My entire life I belived in god till I was 13. I lost my faith because of 2 things, one because many shits happened in my life that I prayed to god not to happened. Things that me as a christian, never should have happened. The other, was science. In it I found most of the answers I wanted to know. For example, how the world was created. The bible tells me it was made by a man, that said "I WANT LIGHT" and the sun appeared & that he wanted a being that would have control and we were made, (BTW I think thats a nice story 4 kindergarden kids) but science tells my the sun is a star, was made when...... (story is too long and i dont know it completely) and that humans are beings that evolved from Primates millions of years ago and has been evolving ever since. Which one has more sence? To me the science one.
In my opinion, christianity, like every other religion, was made to make humans more organized in civilization and make us respect laws more than without it. For example, christians have the 10 commandments, most of em are the same laws the goverment gives us, like "I shall not kill" and to maintain a civilization, the "I shall honor my father and mother" and HELL, if you r bad u go to hell thing. Im sure that 4 many others this is the most logical explanation. Im also a man of facts, I need to see the facts to belive in it. If god is the allmighty, the one no one can destroy, and if he really does exist, why doesnt he show himself, send us something that defenetly tells us he exists. This is were some might say: " He did, Jesus was the proof". WHat if Jesus was lying, what if he was really someone that just had the crazy idea to say, IM THE SON OF GOD, THE ONLY GOD THERE IS. (no wonder why the Romans were so pissed and nailed him to a cross. I do belive that Jesus existed, because he created christianity, I belive that he was killed, but I dont belive he ressurected.
At this time other might say: "But what about his body? And both Maria's saw him." Maybe his followers took his body out of the tomb and burried him somewhere else. And how many times our family and friends cover our mistakes, our lies... Maybe the Virgin with a son cover up his lies of ressurection.
After all its someones choice to have faith or not. Some do because they belive the stories, some don't because the same reasons I dont. Its all a choice, ur choice. Science, Facts, Reasons, Sence or Faith. No one, not even God himself if he exists, can change that.
PS: My post was based in what I think, to say what I belive, to answer the question made. Not to try to change faithful persons' minds. If you were offended in any way by what I just said, I TRULLY APOLOGIZE, but thats what this Tread is all about, say what you think. That is what I think.
First of all, I am a non-beliver. My entire life I belived in god till I was 13. I lost my faith because of 2 things, one because many shits happened in my life that I prayed to god not to happened. Things that me as a christian, never should have happened. The other, was science. In it I found most of the answers I wanted to know. For example, how the world was created. The bible tells me it was made by a man, that said "I WANT LIGHT" and the sun appeared & that he wanted a being that would have control and we were made, (BTW I think thats a nice story 4 kindergarden kids) but science tells my the sun is a star, was made when...... (story is too long and i dont know it completely) and that humans are beings that evolved from Primates millions of years ago and has been evolving ever since. Which one has more sence? To me the science one.
In my opinion, christianity, like every other religion, was made to make humans more organized in civilization and make us respect laws more than without it. For example, christians have the 10 commandments, most of em are the same laws the goverment gives us, like "I shall not kill" and to maintain a civilization, the "I shall honor my father and mother" and HELL, if you r bad u go to hell thing. Im sure that 4 many others this is the most logical explanation. Im also a man of facts, I need to see the facts to belive in it. If god is the allmighty, the one no one can destroy, and if he really does exist, why doesnt he show himself, send us something that defenetly tells us he exists. This is were some might say: " He did, Jesus was the proof". WHat if Jesus was lying, what if he was really someone that just had the crazy idea to say, IM THE SON OF GOD, THE ONLY GOD THERE IS. (no wonder why the Romans were so pissed and nailed him to a cross. I do belive that Jesus existed, because he created christianity, I belive that he was killed, but I dont belive he ressurected.
At this time other might say: "But what about his body? And both Maria's saw him." Maybe his followers took his body out of the tomb and burried him somewhere else. And how many times our family and friends cover our mistakes, our lies... Maybe the Virgin with a son cover up his lies of ressurection.
After all its someones choice to have faith or not. Some do because they belive the stories, some don't because the same reasons I dont. Its all a choice, ur choice. Science, Facts, Reasons, Sence or Faith. No one, not even God himself if he exists, can change that.
PS: My post was based in what I think, to say what I belive, to answer the question made. Not to try to change faithful persons' minds. If you were offended in any way by what I just said, I TRULLY APOLOGIZE, but thats what this Tread is all about, say what you think. That is what I think.
i seen demon possessions before....no wait!!!! they were doing an overdoseVic42 wrote:
Not the ones who have seen demon possessions!JaMDuDe wrote:
Billions of people have seen miracles, demon possesions, and have seen what God can do in life. And christians go to heaven in most other major religions.
hmm...one day ? I wonder when that will be and wether I'll still be alive then.siciliano732 wrote:
bro, im not saying they are saying screw it....i understand "they" think it doesnt exist....
i agree with part B of your second argument though....there are people out there who practice other religions who may never have gotten or got the chance to hear of Jahovah and their time in the world was up....it is all so confusing and contradicting, so i understand why people dont believe but....i dunno....lol...i know what i believe but i dont think as humans we can fully comprehend or even get an exact grasp on things because partially we pick and choose what we want to believe....me i use the Bible as the basis of my Christian beliefs and teachings....but i do understand where you are coming from....
....yet again, an endless argument
one day will will all know the truth....some just know it sooner than others unfortunately
Provided there is an "eternal truth", explaining everything we would want to know about life, death, etc, why do you think you have the correct religion to know before the rest of us ?
Maybe it wil be the buddhists, or the muslims, the jews, the taoists ( list continues ) ?
Yes, I know, you have seen the light, you are a true believer and all that. You just "know"...
Personally, I don't think there is an "eternal truth". It is a religious concept, and since religion was created by humans, it can be wrong.
I'd be happy to believe that there is some godly being watching over us, giving our existances metaphysical meaning, but I just can't, sorry. There is just no evidence to support it. Then again, it's a question of faith anyway, isn't it ?
To me, religion tries to give answers to questions science hasn't been able to answer yet.
And since the amount of knowledge in the universe is probably infinite, that's not going to change for a while, if ever.
I agree though that we have reached a point at which everything has been said on this issue.
That's an excellent point.
Who made religion? Men.
Who thought they communicated with God? Men.
Who wrote the Bible? Men.
Who preach religion? Men.
As far as I can see it, religion was created by a new civilization desprately wanting to understand A. How the world was created B. Why it was created. The gap has now been filled. Religion's original purpose is now redundant.
Who made religion? Men.
Who thought they communicated with God? Men.
Who wrote the Bible? Men.
Who preach religion? Men.
As far as I can see it, religion was created by a new civilization desprately wanting to understand A. How the world was created B. Why it was created. The gap has now been filled. Religion's original purpose is now redundant.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Though it's interesting that science itself takes pride in redundance in engineering.Spark wrote:
That's an excellent point.
Who made religion? Men.
Who thought they communicated with God? Men.
Who wrote the Bible? Men.
Who preach religion? Men.
As far as I can see it, religion was created by a new civilization desprately wanting to understand A. How the world was created B. Why it was created. The gap has now been filled. Religion's original purpose is now redundant.
Though if God exists, he could destroy the universe on a whim, which places him a step above the mythical figure of Chuck Norris. That would certainly change things a bit...Y-D-Donut? wrote:
After all its someones choice to have faith or not. Some do because they belive the stories, some don't because the same reasons I dont. Its all a choice, ur choice. Science, Facts, Reasons, Sence or Faith. No one, not even God himself if he exists, can change that.
The name "Jehovah" is mistranslated nonsense.siciliano732 wrote:
....there are people out there who practice other religions who may never have gotten or got the chance to hear of Jahovah and their time in the world was up....
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-04-12 03:17:38)
Huh? What does that mean (redundance in engineering)?unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Though it's interesting that science itself takes pride in redundance in engineering.Spark wrote:
That's an excellent point.
Who made religion? Men.
Who thought they communicated with God? Men.
Who wrote the Bible? Men.
Who preach religion? Men.
As far as I can see it, religion was created by a new civilization desprately wanting to understand A. How the world was created B. Why it was created. The gap has now been filled. Religion's original purpose is now redundant.Though if God exists, he could destroy the universe on a whim. That would certainly change things a bit...Y-D-Donut? wrote:
After all its someones choice to have faith or not. Some do because they belive the stories, some don't because the same reasons I dont. Its all a choice, ur choice. Science, Facts, Reasons, Sence or Faith. No one, not even God himself if he exists, can change that.
"Though if God exists, he could destroy the universe on a whim. That would certainly change things a bit..."
Though if God exists he would never even comtemplate such a thing. Its just out of his scope.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
What the...surely you have heard of simple "backup" systems. What else could "redundance in engineering" possibly be but fail-safe? This was a teasing comment in response to the idea of something being redundant when compared to science.Spark wrote:
Huh? What does that mean (redundance in engineering)?unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Though it's interesting that science itself takes pride in redundance in engineering.Spark wrote:
That's an excellent point.
Who made religion? Men.
Who thought they communicated with God? Men.
Who wrote the Bible? Men.
Who preach religion? Men.
As far as I can see it, religion was created by a new civilization desprately wanting to understand A. How the world was created B. Why it was created. The gap has now been filled. Religion's original purpose is now redundant.Though if God exists, he could destroy the universe on a whim. That would certainly change things a bit...Y-D-Donut? wrote:
After all its someones choice to have faith or not. Some do because they belive the stories, some don't because the same reasons I dont. Its all a choice, ur choice. Science, Facts, Reasons, Sence or Faith. No one, not even God himself if he exists, can change that.
"Though if God exists, he could destroy the universe on a whim. That would certainly change things a bit..."
Though if God exists he would never even comtemplate such a thing. Its just out of his scope.
If God does exist, he would never blast his creation into nothingness. I made that statement to, in the manner of devil's advocate, counter the idea that if God existed, he chouldn't change an aspect of human society if so possessed of the desire.
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-04-12 03:22:50)
well, science may have a small idea about A., but I dare say B. remains unresolved, at least "officially".Spark wrote:
That's an excellent point.
Who made religion? Men.
Who thought they communicated with God? Men.
Who wrote the Bible? Men.
Who preach religion? Men.
As far as I can see it, religion was created by a new civilization desprately wanting to understand A. How the world was created B. Why it was created. The gap has now been filled. Religion's original purpose is now redundant.
The answer to the question "why are we here ?" is still the biggest mystery to solve.
I wonder what our christian friends think about this.
Oh right. Thanks for that, I had no idea what you were on about at first.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
What the...surely you have heard of simple "backup" systems. What else could "redundance in engineering" possibly be but fail-safe? This was a teasing comment in response to the idea of something being redundant when compared to science.Spark wrote:
Huh? What does that mean (redundance in engineering)?unnamednewbie13 wrote:
Though it's interesting that science itself takes pride in redundance in engineering.Spark wrote:
That's an excellent point.
Who made religion? Men.
Who thought they communicated with God? Men.
Who wrote the Bible? Men.
Who preach religion? Men.
As far as I can see it, religion was created by a new civilization desprately wanting to understand A. How the world was created B. Why it was created. The gap has now been filled. Religion's original purpose is now redundant.
Though if God exists, he could destroy the universe on a whim. That would certainly change things a bit...
"Though if God exists, he could destroy the universe on a whim. That would certainly change things a bit..."
Though if God exists he would never even comtemplate such a thing. Its just out of his scope.
If God does exist, he would never blast his creation into nothingness. I made that statement to, in the manner of devil's advocate, counter the idea that if God existed, he chouldn't change an aspect of human society if so possessed of the desire.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
The mishkan you refer to is only the portable temple Moses built. Mikdash refers to the temple King Solomon built. Thus each temple has a different name. Ezekiel was prophesying about the future, eternal Temple.Vic42 wrote:
Did you read the text in your link? It says "I will put my sanctuary among them forever. My dwelling place will be with them". That, my friend, is the Temple. In Hebrew it says "mishcani", "my dwelling". It isn't the least bit ambiguous; the Jews are first told to build a portable Mishcan in the desert after leaving Egypt, and the Bible has detailed instructions. When the Kingdom was established with Jerusalem as its capitol, the first Temple was built to take the place of the portable Mischan; the Bible says God dwelled there. Starting in chapter 40, Ezekiel gives three whole chapters of the details of the third temple as he envisioned it.wannabe_tank_whore wrote:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?se … version=31Vic42 wrote:
What is the Messiah supposed to accomplish? The Bible says that he will:
A. Build the Third Temple (Ezekiel 37:26-28).
No temple mentioned in those verses. You 'have unquestioningly accepted what you have been told' about this.
But if you intrepret this to mean the Messiah will build the 3rd temple then how about when Jesus said He'll leave but send His Spirit to dwell in them? 1CO 6:19 "Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God?" So there's your Messiah's temple built by Christ.
How was I wrong about Ezekiel when you were the one who can't even get the Hebew correct?Vic42 wrote:
Um, gee. You were flat out wrong about the Ezekiel verse, and you told me I need to accept an IOU for the other three.wannabe_tank_whore wrote:
Good try... don't believe everything you copy and paste.
First, Olam Haba is an intrepretation and it doesn't affect 'anyone'. It is only for Jews.Vic42 wrote:
In case you were wondering, Jews believe that anyone who lives a moral life can have a place in "Olam HaBa", the world to come. Islam, I believe, is a little more narrow, teaching respect for Jews and Christians as fellow descendents of Abraham and followers of Allah.
Second, Islam is very clear on what to do to Jews and Christians:
9:29 Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
9:30 And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they!
Last edited by wannabe_tank_whore (2006-04-12 06:23:47)
Id like to see you explain miracles. The ones where they know werent hoaxes or just an accident. How about demon possesions? People with no mental issues at all or on any drugs...you explain that.JaMDuDe wrote:
No its because ive looked at other religions and none of them compare to what Jesus did, the prophets who knew of him hundred of years before he came, America was based on christianity and it is now the richest, happiest, and most powerful country in the world. Billions of people have seen miracles, demon possesions, and have seen what God can do in life. And christians go to heaven in most other major religions.
i would like to see your science explain that too....
....enlighten me because i am interested....whats your take?
....enlighten me because i am interested....whats your take?
"Miracle" is a term applied by faithful to a prosperous event that they cannot explain, so they naturally try to attribute it to a god for their own reaffirmation in times of doubt. When 'miracles' arrive, they are quickly debunked if given the chance...most religious people tend to look down on the debunking since it then destroys their assurances about any sort of divine intervention. The term "miracle" is too widely used, anyways. A statue crying blood or Mary appearing in a piece of half-eaten toast is not a miracle. The cure for cancer suddenly appearing in front of every hospital in the world in a golden tin would aptly be a miracle.JaMDuDe wrote:
Id like to see you explain miracles. The ones where they know werent hoaxes or just an accident. How about demon possesions? People with no mental issues at all or on any drugs...you explain that.JaMDuDe wrote:
No its because ive looked at other religions and none of them compare to what Jesus did, the prophets who knew of him hundred of years before he came, America was based on christianity and it is now the richest, happiest, and most powerful country in the world. Billions of people have seen miracles, demon possesions, and have seen what God can do in life. And christians go to heaven in most other major religions.
Miracles remain unexplained if no one allows the scientific process to come near them.
As for possessions, those are products of religious hysteria/rebellion against moral authority. Give us an example case where it was proven through a medical study that a possessed person wasn't under the influence of narcotics, in a bad social environment, raised extremely religiously, or suffering from schizophrenia or other mental disease...or would you end up finding cases held by the Catholic and Protestant churches that they did not allow medical researchers to look into? Held for reaffirmation in faith and used as leverage to keep the people thinking that the church leaders are indeed doing "god's work."
So miracles are unexplained and possesions arent real. Nice way to explain them.
He is just offering what he feels about miracles. There is no explanation for some of them, but most modern day "miracles" have been proven to be hoaxes (like the statue of Virgin Mary crying blood). JamDuDe, tell me one instance of a modern day miracle that cannot be explained. Jesus changing water to wine is not valid, because that was before modern days. As far as demon possessions, there is far more scientific and medical evidence that possessions are chemical imbalances or the result of overzealous people (mostly children) than them being possessed by demons. Personally, I think miracles and possessions have died out in modern society because of the advances in science and behavior study. Before modern science and medicine, attributing acts that could not be explained to God was reasonable. However, since the development of modern medicine and science, there is no need to attribute these "miracles" to God when we can explain them using years of research to back us up.
I was possessed by demons once. What I said was written down by a catholic priest and catalogued in their secret archives. I don't remember a bit of it.
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-04-12 09:42:54)
Explain when a doctor claims "miracle" when a patient recovers after doctors say they will most certainly die.Marconius wrote:
"Miracle" is a term applied by faithful to a prosperous event that they cannot explain, so they naturally try to attribute it to a god for their own reaffirmation in times of doubt. When 'miracles' arrive, they are quickly debunked if given the chance...most religious people tend to look down on the debunking since it then destroys their assurances about any sort of divine intervention. The term "miracle" is too widely used, anyways. A statue crying blood or Mary appearing in a piece of half-eaten toast is not a miracle. The cure for cancer suddenly appearing in front of every hospital in the world in a golden tin would aptly be a miracle.JaMDuDe wrote:
Id like to see you explain miracles. The ones where they know werent hoaxes or just an accident. How about demon possesions? People with no mental issues at all or on any drugs...you explain that.JaMDuDe wrote:
No its because ive looked at other religions and none of them compare to what Jesus did, the prophets who knew of him hundred of years before he came, America was based on christianity and it is now the richest, happiest, and most powerful country in the world. Billions of people have seen miracles, demon possesions, and have seen what God can do in life. And christians go to heaven in most other major religions.
Miracles remain unexplained if no one allows the scientific process to come near them.
It sounds like you have intrepreted miracles as only those confirmed by the catholic church.
yeah and im not catholic, i dont think any of the virgin mary stuff is real
Well, there are religious miracles, which refer to the ones JamDuDe is talking about (I think), and there are medical/social/ miracles, in which the odds heavily favor a certain outcome, and the opposite occurs. Seeing as this is a thread about religion, which one do you think he is talking about? I may be mistaken, but it happens sometimes when you use critical thinking to comprehend what people are saying.wannabe_tank_whore wrote:
Explain when a doctor claims "miracle" when a patient recovers after doctors say they will most certainly die.
It sounds like you have intrepreted miracles as only those confirmed by the catholic church.
Edited for punctuation
Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2006-04-12 10:14:32)