Great Flood, redux

2009-09-13 21:24:00

#1

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6816|Global Command

meh, not one of those things I stay up at night worrying about, but...

There is actual hard scientific evidence of a great flood that washed over the Earth.

One line of evidence concerns the fossilized remains of marine life found atop every major mountain range in the world. Mount Everest is indeed, marine limestone. Some would argue that it shows the land masses just move about, ocean locations change, erosion and Earth quakes jack things up.

Scientist have mapped underground oceans. http://www.livescience.com/php/multimed … Eric+Chou.
The theory being that ocean tectonic plates subducting under continental plates sucks massive amounts of water into the crust.

A relatively minor increase in core temperature would in theory cause this water to expand and be expelled from the crust and then you better have an ark. Imagine being able to tap into and extract this water. Arid land could be farmed and the rumored wars over water would be a moot point.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/2328160/posts

http://science.howstuffworks.com/how-th … e-info.htm

http://www.physorg.com/news90171847.html

discuss if you like.

2009-09-13 21:41:07

#2

Flaming_Maniac: prince of insufficient light; +2,490|6994|67.222.138.85

ATG wrote:
One line of evidence concerns the fossilized remains of marine life found atop every major mountain range in the world. Mount Everest is indeed, marine limestone. Some would argue that it shows the land masses just move about, ocean locations change, erosion and Earth quakes jack things up.

Yeah, those crazy bastards, saying things like that.

2009-09-13 22:19:29

#3

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6816|Global Command

I'm saying that plate tectonics do not explain the great flood, which is a fact.
And, I'm not getting to the bible here.

The point is, there is evidence pointing to the fact that periodically the Earth floods and that the waters come from within.

2009-09-13 22:27:31

#4

Morpheus: This shit still going?; +508|6286|The Mitten

Neat.
I always thought there was a flood, and not just the bible story flood.
Other works (that predate the bible, such as the epic of Gilgamesh) and fossils like you stated show layers of sediment that comes when the area is covered in water.

As to tapping into it, like you said, there will always be war. Arid land might be farmable, but... the ecosystem is a delicate balance. I'd rather not fuck it up on a planet wide basis.

Amazon Rainforest need Sahara Desert

EE (hats

2009-09-13 23:36:37

#5

Superior Mind: (not macbeth); +1,755|6980

For a long while now I have believed that the tales of the flood came from the ending of the Pleistocene and the melting of the major glaciers, causing the sea levels to rise by great lengths. This is a theory based in scientific fact.

x

2009-09-14 00:23:10

#6

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7097|Nårvei

You know mountains form over time ATG? ... and that the sea level was significantly higher at one point ...

What was once beneath the sea is now 8000+ meters above it ... doesn't take a flood to do that

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2009-09-14 00:46:16

#7

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6816|Global Command

Scientist did discover and map UNDERGROUND oceans.
That is what leads to periodic floods of a Biblical proportion.

2009-09-14 00:54:53

#8

Catbox: forgiveness; +505|7003

I'm ready for the flood... we have ruined the gift we were given...

Love is the answer

2009-09-14 02:05:28

#9

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7097|Nårvei

ATG wrote:
Scientist did discover and map UNDERGROUND oceans.
That is what leads to periodic floods of a Biblical proportion.

Okay ... the first sentence I have heard of but the articles I read those oceans was hardly huge enough to flood anything of those proportions ...

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2009-09-14 03:01:16

#10

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,817|6393|eXtreme to the maX

I'm saying that plate tectonics do not explain the great flood, which is a fact.

Its not a fact there was a flood, plate tectonics do explain the artefacts which lead people to believe there might have been one.

Scientist have mapped underground oceans.

They aren't so much oceans as areas where the water absorbed in the rock is fractionally higher than elsewhere.
Barring some catalysmic event, that water is staying where it is.
In the event of a meteor strike or the earth splitting in two there will be bigger problems than the ocean volume increasing a few percent.

Fuck Israel

2009-09-14 03:45:24

#11

mr.hrundi: Wurstwassereis; +68|6725|Germany

Well, we're living in an ice age right now, because there's ice on earth. When there was no ice age, there was no ice and the sea level was higher. that, together with the fact that all major mountain regions were sea floor once in history makes a pretty good explanation for fossils above 8000 meters.
I've never heard of oceans under the earth's surface, but considering the high pressure down there I could imagine that water could exist there in liquid form. Yet, a rise of the sea level for several thousand meters when that water comes up sounds rather unbelievable, when melting the ice would make it rise by barely 100 meters...

2009-09-14 03:46:02

#12

Cheez: Herman is a warmaphrodite; +1,027|6726|King Of The Islands

Dilbert_X wrote:
In the event of a meteor strike or the earth splitting in two there will be bigger problems than the ocean volume increasing a few percent.

Just think of the daily commute.

My state was founded by Batman. Your opinion is invalid.

2009-09-14 03:52:26

#13

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6962|Canberra, AUS

So where, pray, is all that water now?

The Himalayas are still growing, by the way, a few cm a year. Not much, but over a few dozen million years? It all adds up.

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2009-09-14 03:56:50

#14

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6698|'Murka

ATG wrote:
I'm saying that plate tectonics do not explain the great flood, which is a fact.
And, I'm not getting to the bible here.

The point is, there is evidence pointing to the fact that periodically the Earth floods and that the waters come from within.

Which could also explain the commonality of a Great Flood story in every major religion (and some not so major).

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2009-09-14 04:32:18

#15

mr.hrundi: Wurstwassereis; +68|6725|Germany

FEOS wrote:
ATG wrote:
I'm saying that plate tectonics do not explain the great flood, which is a fact.
And, I'm not getting to the bible here.

The point is, there is evidence pointing to the fact that periodically the Earth floods and that the waters come from within.
Which could also explain the commonality of a Great Flood story in every major religion (and some not so major).

Makes me wonder what was considered a "great flood" when these religions took shape. could it only have been a river rising very high in one year, because there was more snow than normal in the winter before? would the people in south east asia call the 2001 tsunami a great flood if they didn't know that it "only" hit a rather small part of this planet? Who said the great flood was global and wasn't only something that had an effect on a rather small area, like the area where a text originated that is a religious text today?

2009-09-14 04:34:32

#16

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6962|Canberra, AUS

FEOS wrote:
ATG wrote:
I'm saying that plate tectonics do not explain the great flood, which is a fact.
And, I'm not getting to the bible here.

The point is, there is evidence pointing to the fact that periodically the Earth floods and that the waters come from within.
Which could also explain the commonality of a Great Flood story in every major religion (and some not so major).

Well for many places a flood or storm is the most traumatic thing they'll experience. Certainly one of the most fearsome and striking in terms of power, I could easily see why people would associate a paticularly powerful storm/flash flood with God.

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2009-09-14 05:25:52

#17

PureFodder: Member; +225|6573

FEOS wrote:
ATG wrote:
I'm saying that plate tectonics do not explain the great flood, which is a fact.
And, I'm not getting to the bible here.

The point is, there is evidence pointing to the fact that periodically the Earth floods and that the waters come from within.
Which could also explain the commonality of a Great Flood story in every major religion (and some not so major).

But for it to leave fossils and other major geological features the mountains would have to be underwater for a serious period of time. Obviously this would not only wipe out humanity, but also wipe out pretty well all land based plants and animals. A great flood that drowed most of the world would leave a huge impact in the evolution of life on the planet.

What is sensible is that most of the land could have been underwater nearer to the begining of the planet either before life began or when it was confined to the oceans. Tectonics then pushed and pulled the land around to make bits that were underwater end up at the tops of mountains. The stuff in religions is based on large local flooding that people over stated for dramatic effect. An actual world flood would wipe out the very people trying to write about it.

2009-09-14 05:27:36

#18

M.O.A.B: 'Light 'em up!'; +1,220|6510|Escea

Now we need an old guy to rattle up the world's largest wooden boat in like three weeks.

This also sounds like part of that 2012 film.

2009-09-14 05:30:46

#19

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7097|Nårvei

M.O.A.B wrote:
Now we need an old guy to rattle up the world's largest wooden boat in like three weeks.

This also sounds like part of that 2012 film.

You will be making a bf2s disaster movie now?

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2009-09-14 05:31:30

#20

M.O.A.B: 'Light 'em up!'; +1,220|6510|Escea

Perhaps

2009-09-14 05:34:01

#21

FatherTed: xD; +3,936|6787|so randum

?

Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella

2009-09-14 06:15:46

#22

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,817|6393|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:
Which could also explain the commonality of a Great Flood story in every major religion (and some not so major).

A flood from 'internal water' would be on the timescale of ice-ages at least, probably more like millenia.
I don't see humanity surviving that.
Pretty sure if its on a scale humans could grasp and record it would be more like a tidal wave, for which there is evidence around the place.

Fuck Israel

2009-09-14 06:56:23

#23

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6698|'Murka

http://thewordofme.wordpress.com/2008/0 … d-stories/

Interesting bit of research from this guy. Excerpt from the paper he found:

A series of the largest natural catastrophes in the history of mankind can perhaps be discovered by comparison of recent results in paleoclimatology with traditions of religions. The origin of the biblical myth of the Flood is an ancient enigma that is complicated by similar myths in other beliefs in other parts of the world. An old hypothesis suggested that in the background of these myths there were real floods of cataclysmic size. Attempts to identify these real floods or find any connection between them have as yet been unsuccessful. However, recent paleoclimatic investigations have put this enigma in a new light, as a consequence of which it seems likely that all these floods took place during the last deglaciation period, during the transition from Pleistocene to Holocene. The most likely time for the biblical Flood is about 8,250 B.C. (10,200 B.P.), the end of the Younger Dryas cold episode.

Given that the text of the Old Testament should not be taken literally, one of the first questions is: Do verses 7:10-7:12, 7:17-7:24, and 8:2-8:11 of Genesis reflect some real event? Was there any real flood of unprecedented size in the background of the biblical myth of the Flood? Even though one of accepted answers is that indeed there was (Tokarev (ed.) 1982), attempts to identify the geological layers of that flood have been unsuccessful. One possible reason for this may be the incorrect dating of the supposed event.

Seems to indicate there could be a common cause for many of the flood stories. Errors in timing could be attributed to any number of things, most likely the oral traditions and embellishments resulting from that through the ages.

I'm not saying the Great Flood from the Bible happened exactly as written. I am saying there is evidence that serious, cataclysmic floods did occur...and the resulting Great Flood stories from those cultures are strikingly similar in message even after the changes due to oral traditions and whatnot. The problem with linking them all to the same event is the disparate timing associated with the stories...which again, could be attributed to variances arising from the oral traditions.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2009-09-14 08:05:12

#24

PureFodder: Member; +225|6573

FEOS wrote:
http://thewordofme.wordpress.com/2008/08/24/old-religious-flood-stories/

Any kind of global flood runs into endless problems. For example, why didn't all life in low lying isolated islands get wipped out? Places like that would be expected to loose all complex land based life if submerged, yet they still had life on them when humanity first found them. Places like the Galapogos islands where isolated islands have distict types of plants and animals would mostly have been flooded by even relatively modest ocean rises and would require evolution on a truely insane rate to get the diversity of different life back there after the waters receeded if it happened in the last few tens of thousands of years.

Isolated random events and retelling of myths is a far more reasonable explaination for the different great flood stories found around the globe. The evidence left over by a biblical style mass flood would be truely huge.

2009-09-14 08:19:15

#25

Vilham: Say wat!?; +580|7053|UK

Spark wrote:
FEOS wrote:
ATG wrote:
I'm saying that plate tectonics do not explain the great flood, which is a fact.
And, I'm not getting to the bible here.

The point is, there is evidence pointing to the fact that periodically the Earth floods and that the waters come from within.
Which could also explain the commonality of a Great Flood story in every major religion (and some not so major).
Well for many places a flood or storm is the most traumatic thing they'll experience. Certainly one of the most fearsome and striking in terms of power, I could easily see why people would associate a paticularly powerful storm/flash flood with God.

Indeed. There is even plenty of evidence to link the great flood described in the Bible to a flood that occurred at the time in the localized region. Noah is even thought to have just been a river based trader who sold goats and such.

BF2S Forums Great Flood, redux

ATG wrote:

ATG wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

ATG wrote:

FEOS wrote:

ATG wrote:

FEOS wrote:

ATG wrote:

FEOS wrote:

ATG wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

FEOS wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Spark wrote:

FEOS wrote:

ATG wrote:

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