Ethical: One way ticket to Mars

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Ethical: One way ticket to Mars

2009-09-07 04:33:58

ghettoperson: Member; +1,943|6911

The Moon is - centre to centre - 384,403 kilometers away.

Mars on the other hand:

It gets more complicated than this; however, because both Earth and Mars travel in elliptical orbits around the Sun. Their orbits can bring them close or more distant to each other depending on what point of their orbit they're on.

The closest theoretical point Earth and Mars can be is when Earth is at its aphelion (or most distant point in its orbit), and Mars is at its closest. At this point, the two planets are separated by only 54.6 million km.

This is theoretical though, and would take millions of years to get the perfect point where the planets lined up. The closest point in recent memory was back in 2003, when Earth and Mars were separated by only 55 million km.

The furthest theoretical point is when Earth and Mars are on opposite sides of the Sun, and both at their furthest point from the Sun. At this point, the two planets can be 401 million km.

2009-09-07 05:18:23

Hakei: Banned; +295|6257

Spark wrote:
Hakei wrote:
Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Because you have to construct a vehicle that can exit Earth's gravity well, get to Mars in a timely fashion, make a smooth landing on Mars, exit Mars' gravity well, and return to Earth.

Fuel cost is ridiculous, stress on the vehicle is intense, diversity is unreasonable.
How is it any different from landing on the moon? They have basically the same mass hence the gravity to escape.
Um... no, not really.

Really, no. No. No. No.

Sorry? What? Your objection to this is?

2009-09-07 05:43:44

Mekstizzle: WALKER; +3,611|6883|London, England

Hakei wrote:
Spark wrote:
Hakei wrote:
How is it any different from landing on the moon? They have basically the same mass hence the gravity to escape.
Um... no, not really.

Really, no. No. No. No.
Sorry? What? Your objection to this is?

That the Moon has the same mass as Mars. First people think going to Mars for life is as easy as it was for the pilgrims to go to America and just "make a living" like they did, and now you have someone saying the Moon has the same mass as Mars.

Or is everyone just trolling each other on a sly level and I can't detect it...

Ok, Hakei some simple figures.

Mass of Moon: 7.3477 × 10²² kg (0.012 3 Earths)

Moon escape velocity: 2.38 km/s

Mass of Mars: 6.4185 × 10²³ kg 0.107 Earths

Mars escape velocity: 5.027 km/s

More than twice that of the moon

2009-09-07 05:46:09

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,815|6368|eXtreme to the maX

Ghettoperson wrote:
Mars on the other hand:

Which is irrelevant, it wouldn't be straight line travel.

Fuck Israel

2009-09-07 13:46:17

Hakei: Banned; +295|6257

Mekstizzle wrote:
Hakei wrote:
Spark wrote:

Um... no, not really.

Really, no. No. No. No.
Sorry? What? Your objection to this is?
That the Moon has the same mass as Mars. First people think going to Mars for life is as easy as it was for the pilgrims to go to America and just "make a living" like they did, and now you have someone saying the Moon has the same mass as Mars.

Or is everyone just trolling each other on a sly level and I can't detect it...

Ok, Hakei some simple figures.

Mass of Moon: 7.3477 × 10²² kg (0.012 3 Earths)

Moon escape velocity: 2.38 km/s

Mass of Mars: 6.4185 × 10²³ kg 0.107 Earths

Mars escape velocity: 5.027 km/s

More than twice that of the moon

And the Earth escape velocity is 11 km/s.

In terms of ratio, it's harder to escape Earth with respect to Mars as it is Mars with respect to the Moon.

I never said they had the same mass, I was just stating that bar Mercury, Mars is the best planet to escape from.

2009-09-07 13:50:18

Flaming_Maniac: prince of insufficient light; +2,490|6969|67.222.138.85

Dilbert_X wrote:
FM wrote:
Because you have to construct a vehicle that can exit Earth's gravity well
Any Mars mission would most likely be launched from earth orbit using a vehicle assembled there.

And a return trip would most likely be shipped to Mars's orbit along with an orbital shuttle being shipped to Mars.

The point is it is very difficult to execute a round trip considering it really isn't necessary.

2009-09-07 14:14:56

Hakei: Banned; +295|6257

It's all about the money.

2009-09-07 14:58:15

Jasp: Bongabilla; +171|6924|The Outer Circle

This is pretty much about the same thing, I would think that many astronauts and scientists would be up for such a mission.

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/11882/holteendersig2.jpg

https://forums.bf2s.com/img/avatars/11508.gif

2009-09-08 01:57:32

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6936|Canberra, AUS

ghettoperson wrote:
The Moon is - centre to centre - 384,403 kilometers away.

Mars on the other hand:
It gets more complicated than this; however, because both Earth and Mars travel in elliptical orbits around the Sun. Their orbits can bring them close or more distant to each other depending on what point of their orbit they're on.

The closest theoretical point Earth and Mars can be is when Earth is at its aphelion (or most distant point in its orbit), and Mars is at its closest. At this point, the two planets are separated by only 54.6 million km.

This is theoretical though, and would take millions of years to get the perfect point where the planets lined up. The closest point in recent memory was back in 2003, when Earth and Mars were separated by only 55 million km.

The furthest theoretical point is when Earth and Mars are on opposite sides of the Sun, and both at their furthest point from the Sun. At this point, the two planets can be 401 million km.

You wouldn't launch them in a straight line. You would launch it in an orbit slightly faster and with a slightly different eccentricity to earth's and rely on it to 'hit' Mars.

And as for Hakei: yeah. The moon's mass =/= Mars's mass. The radius difference just doesn't compensate.

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2009-09-08 03:11:15

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6673|'Murka

Flaming_Maniac wrote:
The point is it is very difficult to execute a round trip considering it really isn't necessary.

Ah. It's difficult. We shouldn't even try, then.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2009-09-08 06:23:26

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,815|6368|eXtreme to the maX

If people were going to colonise obviously it would be a one way trip.

Since robot probes have already been, (ok except the european one) theres no need for a suicide mission.

Fuck Israel

2009-09-08 08:13:50

Flaming_Maniac: prince of insufficient light; +2,490|6969|67.222.138.85

FEOS wrote:
Flaming_Maniac wrote:
The point is it is very difficult to execute a round trip considering it really isn't necessary.
Ah. It's difficult. We shouldn't even try, then.

Again, there is no reason to try if there is no motivation. There is nothing wrong with a one way trip.

2009-09-08 08:19:52

ghettoperson: Member; +1,943|6911

Spark wrote:
ghettoperson wrote:
The Moon is - centre to centre - 384,403 kilometers away.

Mars on the other hand:
It gets more complicated than this; however, because both Earth and Mars travel in elliptical orbits around the Sun. Their orbits can bring them close or more distant to each other depending on what point of their orbit they're on.

The closest theoretical point Earth and Mars can be is when Earth is at its aphelion (or most distant point in its orbit), and Mars is at its closest. At this point, the two planets are separated by only 54.6 million km.

This is theoretical though, and would take millions of years to get the perfect point where the planets lined up. The closest point in recent memory was back in 2003, when Earth and Mars were separated by only 55 million km.

The furthest theoretical point is when Earth and Mars are on opposite sides of the Sun, and both at their furthest point from the Sun. At this point, the two planets can be 401 million km.
You wouldn't launch them in a straight line. You would launch it in an orbit slightly faster and with a slightly different eccentricity to earth's and rely on it to 'hit' Mars.

And as for Hakei: yeah. The moon's mass =/= Mars's mass. The radius difference just doesn't compensate.

I'm well aware of that. The fact remains that it's much, much further away so you would need a lot more food and water for a start. And because of the orbit, there would only be certain times it'd be possible to come back, which if there was a problem with the base would be very difficult.

2009-09-08 12:24:34

Bertster7: Confused Pothead; +1,101|6843|SE London

People seem to be missing the main obstacle to a manned mission to Mars - time.

Astronauts can only stay in space so long before their bones all become too brittle to survive on Earth. Using current propulsion methods (excluding the NERVA rocket, which is banned for being launched into orbit because of the risks) it is not possible to do the trip in a short enough time frame (unless you carry immense fuel loads, which complicates matters further).

To find a way of doing that will be very expensive.

Add to that the difficulties in a return launch from Mars and you have an almost impossible task on your hands. But that's ok, because they've got plenty of time to find better ways of doing it. The Moon mission is unlikely to happen much before 2020 and the Mars mission, if it happens, will be a good while after that.

2009-09-08 13:20:21

DrunkFace: Germans did 911; +427|6943|Disaster Free Zone

If I can remember correctly a manned mission to Mars would be a 4 year round trip.

2009-09-08 13:37:05

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7072|Nårvei

Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Because Aussie, no robot can problem solve, troubleshoot, or most importantly think like a human.

You are so short-sighted

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2009-09-08 15:46:05

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6415|what

Varegg wrote:
Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Because Aussie, no robot can problem solve, troubleshoot, or most importantly think like a human.
You are so short-sighted

With remote control is how the rovers are already built. The only problem you can have is mechanical failure.

Manned missions to Mars creates human error. Like the astronaut who dropped a tool bag worth hundreds of thousands of dollars. Ooops.

Humans can fear, hate, etc and that can get in the way of judgement.

Automated systems have more advantages than just process speed / mental capacity too, when you take into account the pressures a rover can withstand compared to a human. I doubt a human is going to be exploring the Mars landscape for days on end without needing to rest.

2009-09-08 16:02:59

Flaming_Maniac: prince of insufficient light; +2,490|6969|67.222.138.85

Why do you think we have bothered to build the ISS Aussie?

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Spark wrote:

Hakei wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Hakei wrote:

Spark wrote:

Hakei wrote:

Ghettoperson wrote:

Mekstizzle wrote:

Hakei wrote:

Spark wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

FM wrote:

ghettoperson wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Spark wrote:

ghettoperson wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

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