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2009-08-22 11:34:07
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6973|Disaster Free Zone
There are, I don't know how many threads about this issue, yet in all the threads and all the posts I have yet to actually read one specific reform Obama has proposed. There seems to be a lot of 'our system is better then yours' and 'your system sucks for x, y and z' and lots of people throwing the word socialism around like a catch phrase. But nothing about what actual changes Obama wants to make.

Whats going to happen to the already established private sector. Whats going to happen to the privately owned hospitals and infrastructure. How is the new system is going to be paid for, both in terms of initial outlay and ongoing upkeep. And what specifically you are against in these changes.

I know I could look up google, but I have little desire to read the bill and most news articles are propagandist tripe with no real details about anything. But most of all I want to hear what you think the changes are and how they will effect you. I also know not being an American this issue has no real impact on me, but maybe with some facts, I could understand why so many are reticent for these changes.
2009-08-22 12:03:03
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6840|San Diego, CA, USA
The Bill:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:H.R.3200:

The Overview:
http://www.lc.org/index.cfm?PID=14102&AlertID=1015

It will have impact us all.  20% of our GDP is spent on healthcare and Obama want to regulate it.  If they can't handle a relatively simple program like Cash for Clunkers then do you really trust them to run our healthcare?
2009-08-22 12:05:51
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6913|London, England
What I don't get is how 20% of your GDP is spent on healthcare yet you have privatised healthcare whereas countries who spend less % can still have full healthcare coverage for the population. The only thing I can think of is that you're either lying about the 20% figure, or that the Private industry is subsidised like a bitch, except those subsidies aren't passed on, so they're screwing you twice over.

How the fuck is it 20%, what the fuck is that being spent on? F-22's?

Last edited by Mekstizzle (2009-08-22 12:06:25)

2009-08-22 12:06:08
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6941

Harmor wrote:

The Bill:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d111:H.R.3200:

The Overview:
http://www.lc.org/index.cfm?PID=14102&AlertID=1015

It will have impact us all.  20% of our GDP is spent on healthcare and Obama want to regulate it.  If they can't handle a relatively simple program like Cash for Clunkers then do you really trust them to run our healthcare?
STOP USING SHITTY RELIGIOUS ORGANISATIONS AS SOME KIND OF PROOF ITS BAD

He asked for facts, not a lobby's slant on it. Fucking hell.
2009-08-22 12:09:27
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|6963|UK
err dude the LoC is the library of congress.  it's not a bias source for once.

The Library of Congress is the research library of the United States Congress and is the oldest federal institution in the United States. Located in three buildings in Washington, D.C., it is the largest library in the world by shelf space and holds the largest number of books.[2][3] The head of the Library is the Librarian of Congress, currently James H. Billington.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Congress

edited to refer to LoC, no comment on LC!

Last edited by m3thod (2009-08-22 12:30:12)

Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
2009-08-22 12:15:59
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6941

LC is Liberty Counsel, which according to their header is into "Restoring the Culture One Case at a Time, by Advancing Religious Freedom, the Sanctity of Human Life and the Traditional Family"

EDIT: They're also affiliated with every religious organisation under the sun.

Last edited by ghettoperson (2009-08-22 12:16:48)

2009-08-22 12:30:59
nlsme1
Member
+32|5709

m3thod wrote:

err dude the LC is the library of congress.  it's not a bias source for once.

The Library of Congress is the research library of the United States Congress and is the oldest federal institution in the United States. Located in three buildings in Washington, D.C., it is the largest library in the world by shelf space and holds the largest number of books.[2][3] The head of the Library is the Librarian of Congress, currently James H. Billington.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Congress
The LC is the Liberty Council. Established in 1989. Religously biased, just as was stated.
2009-08-22 15:36:04
Burwhale
Save the BlobFish!
+136|6514|Brisneyland

mek wrote:

How the fuck is it 20%, what the fuck is that being spent on? F-22's?
$515.4 billion spent on defense! Surely money in there for health.

Last edited by Burwhale (2009-08-22 15:56:13)

2009-08-22 21:55:51
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6973|Disaster Free Zone
Thanks Harmor, not really what I was looking for though.
Shit like: Sec. 122, Pg. 29, Lines 4-16 - YOUR HEALTH CARE WILL BE RATIONED! Is really pointless, I want to know HOW your health care will be rationed. Not just scare tactics.

Sec. 163, Pg. 59, Lines 21-24 - Government will have direct access to your bank accounts for electronic funds transfer. - Why? I thought this was meant to be 'free'? (Plus I don't believe it)


But more important I want to know how the Government plans on acquiring or building all the new hospitals and health clinics/doctors offices which will be needed to cover the expected increase in people relying on government treatment. Will the government forcefully close down private companies to acquire their assets and staff or will they build another system that just competes with these companies and lets the market decide what it may.

How is the government going to go from (what I've heard) very limited resources which treat a small percentage of the population to being able to cover everyone practically overnight? I'm really asking how the system, on the macro scale will be run, I don't really care about what benefits you get (not yet at least), but wheres the money coming from and wheres it going and who's in charge of what.

Sec. 2511, Pg. 992 - Government will establish school-based “health” clinics. Your children will be indoctrinated and your grandchildren may be aborted!
Ohh lol.


Mek, I believe the 20% GDP (I thought it was only 15%) spent on health care is both government and private costs not just government care. It's still a huge amount though.
2009-08-22 22:43:12
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6697|North Carolina

Mekstizzle wrote:

What I don't get is how 20% of your GDP is spent on healthcare yet you have privatised healthcare whereas countries who spend less % can still have full healthcare coverage for the population. The only thing I can think of is that you're either lying about the 20% figure, or that the Private industry is subsidised like a bitch, except those subsidies aren't passed on, so they're screwing you twice over.

How the fuck is it 20%, what the fuck is that being spent on? F-22's?
Pretty much....  plus, we're pretty fucking unhealthy to be First World citizens.  We're more obese, we exercise less, and we eat shitty diets.

I guess all that adds up to more medical bills.
2009-08-22 23:37:00
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6840|San Diego, CA, USA

Turquoise wrote:

Pretty much....  plus, we're pretty fucking unhealthy to be First World citizens.  We're more obese, we exercise less, and we eat shitty diets.

I guess all that adds up to more medical bills.
Yep.  But which country will probably have a 'pill' or procedure that will 'cure obesity' first?  More than likely the United States. 

Face it the United States spends 82%, yes 82% of the worlds R&D in healthcare.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_car … ted_States

If the evil drug companies get squashed then the whole world will suffer from reduced innovation.
2009-08-22 23:39:09
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6697|North Carolina

Harmor wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Pretty much....  plus, we're pretty fucking unhealthy to be First World citizens.  We're more obese, we exercise less, and we eat shitty diets.

I guess all that adds up to more medical bills.
Yep.  But which country will probably have a 'pill' or procedure that will 'cure obesity' first?  More than likely the United States. 

Face it the United States spends 82%, yes 82% of the worlds R&D in healthcare.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_car … ted_States

If the evil drug companies get squashed then the whole world will suffer from reduced innovation.
Wouldn't it make more sense that prices would level out if we socialized?

I don't see why the market wouldn't adjust globally -- if we paid less for healthcare, then other prosperous nations would have to pay more to pick up the slack.

Given that logic though...  It's good for the rest of the world that we pay so much.  It's not so great for us though....

 

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