BF2S Forums rape fetus vs. rape victim

do kindly point them out.

Krappyappy wrote:

does a woman who becomes pregnant as a result of rape have the right to an abortion?

the fetus is innocent and would be punished for events out of its control in the event of an abortion.

the woman is also innocent and is asked to risk suffering, injury, and death to carry the fetus to term, as well as the emotional and financial costs associated with it.

whose interests should be protected?

Society.

What you say about the woman is true, and the baby as well.

But unless there is a solid apparatus in place in to care for the child then it is probably better for society that another sociopath angry child is not set loose to perpetuate the problem.

By the way, that is some tasty bait you are throwing out tonight. +1

I lean towards the "not killing the baby" direction with a strong emphasis on the putting the child up for adoption point.

I believe abortion should only be applicable under extreme circumstances, this being one of them, although even in this situation, birth and than adoption would be preferable.  I don't believe it's the governments place to regulate this one way or the other, either to outlaw the act or to support or validate it in any way shape or form.  It simply isn't the governments right to dictate on this issue, or many others they seem so found of forcing their involvement in.

Turquoise wrote:

ATG wrote:

Krappyappy wrote:

does a woman who becomes pregnant as a result of rape have the right to an abortion?

the fetus is innocent and would be punished for events out of its control in the event of an abortion.

the woman is also innocent and is asked to risk suffering, injury, and death to carry the fetus to term, as well as the emotional and financial costs associated with it.

whose interests should be protected?

Society.

What you say about the woman is true, and the baby as well.

But unless there is a solid apparatus in place in to care for the child then it is probably better for society that another sociopath angry child is not set loose to perpetuate the problem.

By the way, that is some tasty bait you are throwing out tonight. +1

Pretty much.  I lean in the abortion direction as well.

let's assume that the goal of society is to maximize justice.

it is not the fetus's fault that it is the product of rape. it is also not the fetus's problem that society doesn't have the infrastructure necessary to care for it.

it would be unjust to punish the fetus for either of these reasons by aborting it.

Harmor wrote:

The real question I have is if a woman rapes a man or tricks a man into get her pregnant if she should be forced to have an abortion...

lolwut

if the woman wants to have a child there's no sense in forcing an abortion. just don't make the guy pay child support.

Krappyappy wrote:

not dictating IS dictating. the law either allows it or forbids it.

Immensely untrue, and a basic logical fallacy. Such ruling could be at least ternary, not binary.

1. No ruling. There simply are no laws about the matter.
2. Disallow. There are laws forbidding the practice.
3. Guarantee. (Bill of rights ring a bell here?) A woman's right to an abortion is guaranteed.

The government most certainly could chose to abstain from this judgement allowing each individual (woman and doctor) to make that decision which is right for them(#1). This is the approach I favor.

I would be equally upset if doctors were forced to perform abortions (#3) as I would be if abortion was made a crime (#2).

* Of course, this whole argument is moot depending on when your belief system equates life to begin.

** Not that either argument has ever, EVER been settled one way or the other.

chuyskywalker wrote:

Krappyappy wrote:

not dictating IS dictating. the law either allows it or forbids it.

Immensely untrue, and a basic logical fallacy. Such ruling could be at least ternary, not binary.

1. No ruling. There simply are no laws about the matter.
2. Disallow. There are laws forbidding the practice.
3. Guarantee. (Bill of rights ring a bell here?) A woman's right to an abortion is guaranteed.

The government most certainly could chose to abstain from this judgement allowing each individual (woman and doctor) to make that decision which is right for them(#1). This is the approach I favor.

I would be equally upset if doctors were forced to perform abortions (#3) as I would be if abortion was made a crime (#2).

* Of course, this whole argument is moot depending on when your belief system equates life to begin.

** Not that either argument has ever, EVER been settled one way or the other.

to me, laws are abridgments of natural rights, equating #1 and #3.

in any case, the OP was a binary situation. straddling the issue does not create interesting debate.

@kimmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

yes i admit the title is a bit ... colorful. attention grabbing and all that, you know.

Murder is a hard thing to live with.

I was young and stupid and knocked a girl up. She wanted me to pay for the abortion, which I did.


I only had one dream, or communication with my murdered daughter. She yelled at me from the gates of Heaven, on the edge of a dream

" Why? Why did you kill me? Why was I never given a chance? "

She appeared to me to be about 12. She was backed up by other persons who also did not approve, but were silent.


The worst nightmare ever, and Mac, you don't ever want to feel what it feels like to take anothers life. 

I'd wager that the child facing all those hardships you describe would still choose life.

ATG wrote:

Murder is a hard thing to live with.

A lot of people who commit it seem to cope perfectly well.

ATG wrote:

I was young and stupid and knocked a girl up. She wanted me to pay for the abortion, which I did.

Did the right thing.

ATG wrote:

I only had one dream, or communication with my murdered daughter. She yelled at me from the gates of Heaven, on the edge of a dream

Not everyone believes in the supernatural.

ATG wrote:

" Why? Why did you kill me? Why was I never given a chance? "

Did you respond back with an honest answer?

ATG wrote:

She appeared to me to be about 12. She was backed up by other persons who also did not approve, but were silent.

Alright.

ATG wrote:

The worst nightmare ever, and Mac, you don't ever want to feel what it feels like to take anothers life.

I wouldn't care less because I know that it would not be like I could or would change my actions and also that the person's who's life I had to take either deserved it or their death benefited me in way.

ATG wrote:

I'd wager that the child facing all those hardships you describe would still choose life.

Sociopaths are pretty happy people and are often born under such circumstances, I wouldn't want to have to live near one of those kids or have to pay for it because their mother decided she wouldn't be able to sleep at night if she aborted the kid she wouldn't be able to pay for.

DesertFox- wrote:

WARNING: I'm going to sound like a heartless bastard here.

Spoiler (highlight to read):
Since when is a fetus a person? They're haven't even been born yet and you're never 100% certain they will survive the birth to begin with (although I acknowledge survival chances are usually quite high for a healthy fetus). People aren't okay with late-term abortions because they think of it as killing a baby, despite that child not even being born yet, but they're fine with ones in the early trimesters because it's just a bunch of cells that faintly resembles a human being.

Actually if you're religious, the bible actually says life starts at birth. Funny little book that is, also condones infanticide.

Last edited by Macbeth (2009-08-10 13:57:17)

DesertFox- wrote:

WARNING: I'm going to sound like a heartless bastard here.

Spoiler (highlight to read):
Since when is a fetus a person? They're haven't even been born yet and you're never 100% certain they will survive the birth to begin with (although I acknowledge survival chances are usually quite high for a healthy fetus). People aren't okay with late-term abortions because they think of it as killing a baby, despite that child not even being born yet, but they're fine with ones in the early trimesters because it's just a bunch of cells that faintly resembles a human being.

yay someone mentioned the science part hah
if i get raped i dont want raper guy's baby, sorry