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2009-08-06 15:24:22
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6693|North Carolina
We don't need socialized healthcare in America for one reason.  You don't actually have to pay when they bill you.

Healthcare is basically free when you go the ER, they serve you, and you later ignore their bills.  Just ask illegals.

Now, admittedly, as a citizen, you have more to lose if you don't pay, but hey, it's just credit.  It doesn't really matter as long as you're still alive by the end of your treatment.  The collections guys might harass you or try to take your property or garnish your wages, but that really has no effect on your ability to get more care when you need it.

Now, people like me are insured, and our rates go up as a result of this sort of thing, but I'm ok with that, because hey, I'm going to be subsidizing the uninsured one way or another.  We can do it through our current private system or do it more affordably through socialization, but either way, I can't control whether or not people pay up.

So all this talk of socialized care is kind of redundant, because we actually already have a system that essentially does it for the poor, illegals, and uninsured in general.

What do you guys think?
2009-08-06 15:26:39
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6441|what

Turquoise wrote:

Now, admittedly, as a citizen, you have more to lose if you don't pay, but hey, it's just credit.  It doesn't really matter as long as you're still alive by the end of your treatment.  The collections guys might harass you or try to take your property or garnish your wages, but that really has no effect on your ability to get more care when you need it.
Kind of like when you default on your mortgage. It's just credit, right? So what if the bank repossesses the house, garnishes your wages, you're still alive.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
2009-08-06 15:28:11
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5874

Turquoise wrote:

What do you guys think?
Eat the poor.


Seriously though, I understand you, but with socialized medicine it makes the act of never paying back attractivecan't think of a better word rather then as it is now unattractive since you might lose wages and property.

Eh I already got my insurance though.
2009-08-06 15:29:00
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6693|North Carolina

AussieReaper wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Now, admittedly, as a citizen, you have more to lose if you don't pay, but hey, it's just credit.  It doesn't really matter as long as you're still alive by the end of your treatment.  The collections guys might harass you or try to take your property or garnish your wages, but that really has no effect on your ability to get more care when you need it.
Kind of like when you default on your mortgage. It's just credit, right? So what if the bank repossesses the house, garnishes your wages, you're still alive.
People just put too much value on property.  Like, I know that if my car got stolen tonight, I'd be pretty pissed at first, but then I'd have to accept the fact that I do live in an area where vehicle theft is becoming more common.

Eventually, I'd get over it, and besides, my insurance would cover it.

Either way though...  we really focus too much on property and not enough on other things in life.
2009-08-06 15:30:20
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6693|North Carolina

Macbeth wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

What do you guys think?
Eat the poor.


Seriously though, I understand you, but with socialized medicine it makes the act of never paying back attractivecan't think of a better word rather then as it is now unattractive since you might lose wages and property.

Eh I already got my insurance though.
That is a good point.   I don't know.  I don't think socialized medicine would increase or decrease the likelihood of illegals receiving care without paying though.
2009-08-06 15:31:35
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5874

Turquoise wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Now, admittedly, as a citizen, you have more to lose if you don't pay, but hey, it's just credit.  It doesn't really matter as long as you're still alive by the end of your treatment.  The collections guys might harass you or try to take your property or garnish your wages, but that really has no effect on your ability to get more care when you need it.
Kind of like when you default on your mortgage. It's just credit, right? So what if the bank repossesses the house, garnishes your wages, you're still alive.
People just put too much value on property.  Like, I know that if my car got stolen tonight, I'd be pretty pissed at first, but then I'd have to accept the fact that I do live in an area where vehicle theft is becoming more common.

Eventually, I'd get over it, and besides, my insurance would cover it.

Either way though...  we really focus too much on property and not enough on other things in life.
Eh I care a lot more about my property then most of the people I deal with on a daily basis.
2009-08-06 17:13:26
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6817|Global Command
Seems like the solution is to deport or deny services to illegal aliens.
2009-08-06 17:25:10
Deadmonkiefart
Floccinaucinihilipilificator
+177|6994

ATG wrote:

Seems like the solution is to deport or deny services to illegal aliens.
Well Duh!  The politicians know that!  However, they also know they can gain more power by starting a national health care system instead.
2009-08-06 17:37:20
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6817|Global Command
Ya but a nationalized healthcare plan that applies to anybody but nationals will increase illegal immigration and wreck it for everybody.

That's the issue. That is where they fail.
2009-08-06 17:58:12
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6693|North Carolina

ATG wrote:

Ya but a nationalized healthcare plan that applies to anybody but nationals will increase illegal immigration and wreck it for everybody.

That's the issue. That is where they fail.
Well, for the most part, we already have a nationalized healthcare plan for illegals with the current system.
2009-08-06 18:05:55
13urnzz
Banned
+5,830|6785

Turquoise wrote:

Well, for the most part, we already have a nationalized healthcare plan for illegals with the current system.
lol! that's why we need change, change you can believe in. lol!
i do pretty good thru my employers' healthcare coverage. if i lose a job, it will be the least of my problems.

if i lose my job, and then have an issue, it will be the greatest of my issues . . .
2009-08-06 18:46:19
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6889|132 and Bush

Plenty of Legals ignore their debts as well.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2009-08-06 19:11:52
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6817|Global Command
But they are not exactly nearly as accountable as say, you or me.
2009-08-06 19:50:32
Narupug
Fodder Mostly
+150|5885|Vacationland

ATG wrote:

Seems like the solution is to deport or deny services to illegal aliens.
Isn't that your solution to everything?
2009-08-06 20:50:57
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6817|Global Command
Isn't it obvious that run away illegal immigration is doom?

Whatever.

Think what ye like.
2009-08-06 23:36:25
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6693|North Carolina

ATG wrote:

Isn't it obvious that run away illegal immigration is doom?

Whatever.

Think what ye like.
It's doom unless you grant them amnesty, simplify citizenship to something that takes only a few weeks and is free, and then open the door completely to immigration.

After all that, you end up with a massive underclass, but also, you have a lot of voters to exploit for whatever agenda you might want to promote.
2009-08-07 01:13:14
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7004
Companies pay 40% for national insurance, Gov pays 60%, you pay 10%. Win.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
2009-08-07 01:24:05
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6995|67.222.138.85

Turquoise wrote:

People just put too much value on property.  Like, I know that if my car got stolen tonight, I'd be pretty pissed at first, but then I'd have to accept the fact that I do live in an area where vehicle theft is becoming more common.
Of course, people violating your right to property is a fact of life. Really, we might as well do away with the private property all together, as people will take other people's shit no matter what we say.
2009-08-07 05:43:25
Ghandi767
Member
+17|6910|Hanging in the Balance

Turquoise wrote:

We don't need socialized healthcare in America for one reason.  You don't actually have to pay when they bill you.

Healthcare is basically free when you go the ER, they serve you, and you later ignore their bills.  Just ask illegals.

Now, admittedly, as a citizen, you have more to lose if you don't pay, but hey, it's just credit.  It doesn't really matter as long as you're still alive by the end of your treatment.  The collections guys might harass you or try to take your property or garnish your wages, but that really has no effect on your ability to get more care when you need it.

Now, people like me are insured, and our rates go up as a result of this sort of thing, but I'm ok with that, because hey, I'm going to be subsidizing the uninsured one way or another.  We can do it through our current private system or do it more affordably through socialization, but either way, I can't control whether or not people pay up.

So all this talk of socialized care is kind of redundant, because we actually already have a system that essentially does it for the poor, illegals, and uninsured in general.

What do you guys think?
No. Healthcare is not basically free. Its free until they realize you have no insurance, then anything beyond patching you up is unavailable. Have cancer? Go die in a hole. Arrythmia? Go into cardiac arrest near a fire station. The system is f*cked. And god forbid you have a preexisting condition, in which case you might as well shoot yourself in the face now.
2009-08-07 08:36:50
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|7024|Salt Lake City

While I'm not advocating providing services to illegals, because I think that needs to stop, but one advantage I can see is that people without insurance only go to doctors (e.g. emergency rooms) when something gets really bad.  It is far less expensive to catch and treat early rather than wait until something is very bad.
2009-08-07 21:59:40
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6693|North Carolina

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

People just put too much value on property.  Like, I know that if my car got stolen tonight, I'd be pretty pissed at first, but then I'd have to accept the fact that I do live in an area where vehicle theft is becoming more common.
Of course, people violating your right to property is a fact of life. Really, we might as well do away with the private property all together, as people will take other people's shit no matter what we say.
In an ideal world, property rights would be unnecessary because sharing would be the norm.  Obviously, we don't live in an ideal world, but my suggestion was not to abolish property rights.

I simply believe we should be less materialistic.
2009-08-07 22:01:19
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6693|North Carolina

Ghandi767 wrote:

No. Healthcare is not basically free. Its free until they realize you have no insurance, then anything beyond patching you up is unavailable. Have cancer? Go die in a hole. Arrythmia? Go into cardiac arrest near a fire station. The system is f*cked. And god forbid you have a preexisting condition, in which case you might as well shoot yourself in the face now.
I agree, but my OP was meant to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek towards the free market types.

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

While I'm not advocating providing services to illegals, because I think that needs to stop, but one advantage I can see is that people without insurance only go to doctors (e.g. emergency rooms) when something gets really bad.  It is far less expensive to catch and treat early rather than wait until something is very bad.
Agreed, and this is why preventive care is typically the focus of socialized systems.
2009-08-07 22:12:12
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5874

I showed your OP to a coworker he "wtf is this nerd shit"

Seriously though he responded with "well you are correct to a point, but sure you could to an ER and get a doctor right away for emergencies, you cannot go to a specialist, or an eye doctor, or get prescription drugs. You could walk into the ER with a gunshot wound and get treated  but you cant go to an OBGYN and say I have a bad smell check this"

This really isn't mine or his area of thought so just telling you what an bf2s outside thought on your health care thread.

I get all my meds with a $5 copay so really I have no idea how much pills are but I hear they are expensive, maybe make that cheaper for others?
2009-08-08 05:32:09
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6699|'Murka

Ghandi767 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

We don't need socialized healthcare in America for one reason.  You don't actually have to pay when they bill you.

Healthcare is basically free when you go the ER, they serve you, and you later ignore their bills.  Just ask illegals.

Now, admittedly, as a citizen, you have more to lose if you don't pay, but hey, it's just credit.  It doesn't really matter as long as you're still alive by the end of your treatment.  The collections guys might harass you or try to take your property or garnish your wages, but that really has no effect on your ability to get more care when you need it.

Now, people like me are insured, and our rates go up as a result of this sort of thing, but I'm ok with that, because hey, I'm going to be subsidizing the uninsured one way or another.  We can do it through our current private system or do it more affordably through socialization, but either way, I can't control whether or not people pay up.

So all this talk of socialized care is kind of redundant, because we actually already have a system that essentially does it for the poor, illegals, and uninsured in general.

What do you guys think?
No. Healthcare is not basically free. Its free until they realize you have no insurance, then anything beyond patching you up is unavailable. Have cancer? Go die in a hole. Arrythmia? Go into cardiac arrest near a fire station. The system is f*cked. And god forbid you have a preexisting condition, in which case you might as well shoot yourself in the face now.
Untrue. Hospitals are required to by law to treat emergent conditions when presented, regardless of insurance situations.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2009-08-08 13:19:38
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6693|North Carolina

FEOS wrote:

Ghandi767 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

We don't need socialized healthcare in America for one reason.  You don't actually have to pay when they bill you.

Healthcare is basically free when you go the ER, they serve you, and you later ignore their bills.  Just ask illegals.

Now, admittedly, as a citizen, you have more to lose if you don't pay, but hey, it's just credit.  It doesn't really matter as long as you're still alive by the end of your treatment.  The collections guys might harass you or try to take your property or garnish your wages, but that really has no effect on your ability to get more care when you need it.

Now, people like me are insured, and our rates go up as a result of this sort of thing, but I'm ok with that, because hey, I'm going to be subsidizing the uninsured one way or another.  We can do it through our current private system or do it more affordably through socialization, but either way, I can't control whether or not people pay up.

So all this talk of socialized care is kind of redundant, because we actually already have a system that essentially does it for the poor, illegals, and uninsured in general.

What do you guys think?
No. Healthcare is not basically free. Its free until they realize you have no insurance, then anything beyond patching you up is unavailable. Have cancer? Go die in a hole. Arrythmia? Go into cardiac arrest near a fire station. The system is f*cked. And god forbid you have a preexisting condition, in which case you might as well shoot yourself in the face now.
Untrue. Hospitals are required to by law to treat emergent conditions when presented, regardless of insurance situations.
They are, but the extent to which they treat you is about the same as Ghandi said, if you have no insurance or no ability to pay.

Last edited by Turquoise (2009-08-08 13:20:00)

 

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