Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5885

The Supreme Court on Monday agreed with the Obama administration and refused to review Pentagon policy barring gays and lesbians from serving openly in the military.

The court said it will not hear an appeal from former Army Capt. James Pietrangelo II, who was dismissed under the "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

The federal appeals court in Boston earlier threw out a lawsuit filed by Pietrangelo and 11 other veterans. He was the only member of that group who asked the high court to rule that the Clinton-era policy is unconstitutional.

"I think this decision is an absolute travesty of justice and I think every judge on this court should be ashamed of themselves," said Pietrangelo, who served six years in the Army, seven years in the Vermont National Guard and fought in Iraq in 1991. "It's nothing short of rubber stamping legalized discrimination, the same way Nazi Germany legalized discrimination against Jews.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090608/ap_ … s_military
So should homosexuals be let into the military openly? I wouldn't mind or care but was never in the military so I have no perspective on this other wouldn't letting gays into the military hurt overall recruitment since nobody wants to join that "fag army"?
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6829|Global Command
Why do they even have to bring it up?

Don't ask. Don't tell.

It's nobodies fucking business until they start talking about it.
(T)eflon(S)hadow
R.I.P. Neda
+456|7129|Grapevine, TX
NO. Effective unit cohesion needs to be maintained to the highest standard. I wouldnt trust some guy staring at my ass while in the prone position, if I knew he was openly gay and my "spotter".

The policy "works" as is... wish it was never put in place, but again, it works. i.e. "Dont Ask, Dont Tell"
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6452|what

(T)eflon(S)hadow wrote:

I wouldnt trust some guy staring at my ass while in the prone position, if I knew he was openly gay and my "spotter".
But you'd be happy with a female spotter staring at your ass?
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
S3v3N
lolwut?
+685|6818|Montucky

AussieReaper wrote:

(T)eflon(S)hadow wrote:

I wouldnt trust some guy staring at my ass while in the prone position, if I knew he was openly gay and my "spotter".
But you'd be happy with a female spotter staring at your ass?
No.
BN
smells like wee wee
+159|7067

(T)eflon(S)hadow wrote:

NO. Effective unit cohesion needs to be maintained to the highest standard. I wouldnt trust some guy staring at my ass while in the prone position, if I knew he was openly gay and my "spotter".

The policy "works" as is... wish it was never put in place, but again, it works. i.e. "Dont Ask, Dont Tell"
If i have bullets whizzing around me I would not be thinking of anyone's arse sexually!!
(T)eflon(S)hadow
R.I.P. Neda
+456|7129|Grapevine, TX

S3v3N wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

(T)eflon(S)hadow wrote:

I wouldnt trust some guy staring at my ass while in the prone position, if I knew he was openly gay and my "spotter".
But you'd be happy with a female spotter staring at your ass?
No.
Exactly, only a red blooded American that loves pussy, beer, and apple pie. They can be any race, but has to unequivocally be known to have my back! NOT want my back!
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6452|what

(T)eflon(S)hadow wrote:

S3v3N wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

But you'd be happy with a female spotter staring at your ass?
No.
Exactly, only a red blooded American that loves pussy, beer, and apple pie. They can be any race, but has to unequivocally be known to have my back! NOT want my back!
Oh how times change.

It was the Greeks/Spartans who believed a warrior would fight far more vehemently with his male lover by his side.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6964|NT, like Mick Dundee

S3v3N wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

(T)eflon(S)hadow wrote:

I wouldnt trust some guy staring at my ass while in the prone position, if I knew he was openly gay and my "spotter".
But you'd be happy with a female spotter staring at your ass?
No.
Which is why the US Army still doesn't have mixed infantry corps. It's  potentially very dangerous in combat. Same with the Aussie one afaik.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
(T)eflon(S)hadow
R.I.P. Neda
+456|7129|Grapevine, TX

AussieReaper wrote:

(T)eflon(S)hadow wrote:

S3v3N wrote:


No.
Exactly, only a red blooded American that loves pussy, beer, and apple pie. They can be any race, but has to unequivocally be known to have my back! NOT want my back!
Oh how times change.

It was the Greeks/Spartans who believed a warrior would fight far more vehemently with his male lover by his side.
oh how they do, thank GOD for that! +1
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6705|North Carolina
Gays shouldn't enlist.  They are far too precious to be lost.

xBlackPantherx
Grow up, or die
+142|6642|California
Yes they should. Btw teflon you're a cliche Texan bigot. Yes they should. I actually know this officer. I played in this orchestra in So Cal where he was a guest singer for one of the classical pieces and got to talk to him afterwards. Nice guy.

(T)eflon(S)hadow wrote:

NO. Effective unit cohesion needs to be maintained to the highest standard. I wouldnt trust some guy staring at my ass while in the prone position, if I knew he was openly gay and my "spotter".

The policy "works" as is... wish it was never put in place, but again, it works. i.e. "Dont Ask, Dont Tell"
So  the only problem you have is if you know or not? I don't really understand why you quoted 'works'.
(T)eflon(S)hadow
R.I.P. Neda
+456|7129|Grapevine, TX
xBPx, why should they? You have a good reason Im sure. Im sure the Officer that you met was a nice guy, its been my experience that homosexual men and women are all nice people. That dosent qualify them to be combat ready troops, in any military organization.  Where Im from is Colorado, although I call Texas home. Your a bigot for calling me out like that based on my location in an online forum, you dim wit. Im not a racist or a homophobic.

Im just stating a fact that knowing if someone is gay or not would seriously affect any unit I was ever assigned too. The last thing any solider or Marine needs to worry about is if one of their platoon members was wanting to always take a shower to take a look at their sausage... Preparing and training for combat is stressful enough worrying about keeping your self in one piece and not getting injured, accomplishing the mission with out spending any undue energy on wasteful anxiety, such as: worrying about family or friends at home, whats for dinner, or if my "battle buddy" is more concerned about my physical attributes! There are to many other outside variables that you have to mentally block out while fosusing on the mission at hand, not this issue! If you haven't been in the military xBPx, how can you even attempt to argue with me, let alone call me a bigot?

I quoted works, because the policy does work! If there was a homosexual in  my squad and he never told us, well... it never affected our squad obviously! so the policy "works!" Get it now? Or am I just being a dumb steer from Texas? btw Cali is a nice place to visit hope its a beautiful Cali day...

EDIT: There are entirely way more important issues facing our country in this time, than spending time and money reversing this policy. For that Im glad it was rejected... now where can we get another couple of million dollars to study the fruit fly??

Last edited by (T)eflon(S)hadow (2009-06-10 10:19:48)

xBlackPantherx
Grow up, or die
+142|6642|California

(T)eflon(S)hadow wrote:

xBPx, why should they? You have a good reason Im sure. Im sure the Officer that you met was a nice guy, its been my experience that homosexual men and women are all nice people. That dosent qualify them to be combat ready troops, in any military organization.  Where Im from is Colorado, although I call Texas home. Your a bigot for calling me out like that based on my location in an online forum, you dim wit. Im not a racist or a homophobic.

Im just stating a fact that knowing if someone is gay or not would seriously affect any unit I was ever assigned too. The last thing any solider or Marine needs to worry about is if one of their platoon members was wanting to always take a shower to take a look at their sausage... Preparing and training for combat is stressful enough worrying about keeping your self in one piece and not getting injured, accomplishing the mission with out spending any undue energy on wasteful anxiety, such as: worrying about family or friends at home, whats for dinner, or if my "battle buddy" is more concerned about my physical attributes! There are to many other outside variables that you have to mentally block out while fosusing on the mission at hand, not this issue! If you haven't been in the military xBPx, how can you even attempt to argue with me, let alone call me a bigot?

I quoted works, because the policy does work! If there was a homosexual in  my squad and he never told us, well... it never affected our squad obviously! so the policy "works!" Get it now? Or am I just being a dumb steer from Texas? btw Cali is a nice place to visit hope its a beautiful Cali day...

EDIT: There are entirely way more important issues facing our country in this time, than spending time and money reversing this policy. For that Im glad it was rejected... now where can we get another couple of million dollars to study the fruit fly??
I stated you as I did because you're automatically assuming that just because someone is gay they will put a squad members ass over life and death. Let me ask you this: If you were fighting in an urban setting, just somewhere with average citizens, and there are combatants shooting at you from buildings and there happens to be a hot woman that you see, maybe hiding, are you gonna stare at her ass before you fight and protect your life and your squad members? Fuck no you won't.

"The last thing any solider or Marine needs to worry about is if one of their platoon members was wanting to always take a shower to take a look at their sausage... "

So it seems to me that the problem isn't the homosexual in question, it's the other platoon members thought's and attitudes towards them. But, again, if you are shooting/being shot at I highly doubt the first thing that would be on your mind is if Jim is staring at your ass. I stated what I did about you because it seems you put homosexuals outside the realm of everyday human beings. If you're not going to stare at a hot woman while engaged in combat, why would he do the same at a guy?

Ok, I see why you quoted works. It just threw me off for a second. But, voting on human equality isn't important? This is no different than allowing blacks in the military during the civil war. No different at all. All the same general points and arguments get made. And yes, California is paradise. At least where I live. 5 minutes from the beach, 1-2 hours from skiing, 1 hour from desert, 45 minutes from a big lake, 6-8 hours to vegas or san fran.

Why does what a man (or woman) like sexually determine if he can follow human nature to survive and protect his peers around him. It doesn't, and it seems the real problem is the other soldiers' attitude/thoughts/views about the homosexual in question.
Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|7074|Noizyland

I agree with some principles of DADT, mostly the fact that being openly gay in the military is not going to be a pleasant experience for the gay person. However dismissing distinguished soldiers after they make it known that they're gay is bollocks. I mean these are guys who have already proven that they are are combat effective, the only thing accomplished by dismissing them because of their sexuality is weakening the armed forces.

Also consider this; the DADT policy is so that gay's can serve but they have to keep quiet about it. (T)eflon(S)hadow this means that whether you know it or not your spotter could be gay so your argument is somewhat flawed. I guess in that case it depends whether you want to know if you're spotter's gay or whether your fine with being ignorant about the fact.

I think this concern about gay soldiers eyeing up their fellow soldier's arses is bullcrap anyway.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
xBlackPantherx
Grow up, or die
+142|6642|California
Exactly Ty. As far as I see it, the problem isn't with a gay's competence in fighting, that's already been proven if they are in the army and fighting in as an important position; and it's not about whether or not the guy is gonna stare at anothers' ass instead of worrying about his or another's life. The problem is with the other soldiers' views towards them. But, the fighting example goes both ways too. If you are engaged in combat I doubt you're gonna worry if Jim is staring at your ass or not.
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6964|NT, like Mick Dundee

The military of a nation is typically a fairly conservative organisation. Normally has old-school values. Gays would face extreme prejudice in a lot of military environments. So better to keep it don't ask, don't tell. Helps with unit cohesion, morale, trust, esprit de corp etc. etc.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|7074|Noizyland

We're in agreement there Flec but what about distinguished soldiers who come out after proving themselves to be able soldiers? Under DADT these soldiers are discharged. Is that fair?
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6920|London, England

(T)eflon(S)hadow wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

(T)eflon(S)hadow wrote:


Exactly, only a red blooded American that loves pussy, beer, and apple pie. They can be any race, but has to unequivocally be known to have my back! NOT want my back!
Oh how times change.

It was the Greeks/Spartans who believed a warrior would fight far more vehemently with his male lover by his side.
oh how they do, thank GOD for that! +1
Wasn't it the USMC that kept harping on about how they're like the Spartans (especially after the film 300 came out etc.. and there was all the hype about Spartans) then I remember people replying with just how fucking gay they were (literally) and it shut them all up

I remember seeing that convo somewhere, was it here or somewhere else. I dunno. Made me laugh though
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6964|NT, like Mick Dundee

Ty wrote:

We're in agreement there Flec but what about distinguished soldiers who come out after proving themselves to be able soldiers? Under DADT these soldiers are discharged. Is that fair?
If he tells the Army/Air-Force/Navy, then yes, as he knows full well it's career suicide, so why would he do it if he wished to remain in the service?
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|7074|Noizyland

Most of the time it's not an announcement dude. I mean a guy doesn't go up to another and say, "Hey man, I'm gay" does he? It's just as unlikely that a soldier would go to a superior officer and announce his sexuality as well. Most of the time it just "comes out". C'mon I'm sure you've had that friend who you always had suspicions about and then one day, BAM out of the closet and you have to hide the self-satisfied "yeah I already knew buddy" smirk and...

Anyway the point is that someone who's repressing their sexuality can only do so for so long, those that manage to repress it forever are generally deeply unhappy - look at those "Pray the Gay Away" religious homosexuality-curing camps and the suicide rates they get. Why should soldiers - good ones too - have to repress themselves and live a lie because they'll loose their career if they dont?

The US Army, suffering a shortage of troops a while ago, lowered their standards regarding mental health. This doesn't mean that they let mental cases in the military but it does mean that those who would previously been barred from the military due to not being to the standard are now very much allowed to serve in the armed forces. Just think about that; people of below acceptable mental health are allowed to be in the army. However if you're gay, no way. Even if you're already in the militar than you're dismissed - even if you've had a distinguished career in the armed forces. Why? To protect the homophobes?

While there may be predjudice against gays in the military, (if there's one place where homophobia is allowed to florish it's the military,) that shouldn't be an excuse. The military is also the one place that if an effort is put in to cut that homophobia bullcrap out of soldiers than it will be accomplished. There needs to be a shift in attitudes and it can happen; look at the issue of race. The military was a hotspot of intolerance on race issues as well but look how that got switched around.

Homosexuals seem to be the one social group we're still kind of okay about being a bit predjudiced towards. The thing is, and I don't speak from experience here obviously but I'm sure that once the first bullet goes flying past your head, gay, straight - it doesn't matter in the slightest.

Also Eddie Izzard had a point when talking about the military when he said that one of the main factors of war is the element of surprise, "and what could be more surprising than the First Batallion Transvestite Brigade?"

(Transvestites don't have to be gay of course.)
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6964|NT, like Mick Dundee

Precisely, there needs to be a shift in attitudes. Give it another 20 years but for now, if they want to join the military they should consider what it means properly first.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
Ty
Mass Media Casualty
+2,398|7074|Noizyland

I hope for the sake of my opinion of humanity that it takes less than 20 years.
[Blinking eyes thing]
Steam: http://steamcommunity.com/id/tzyon

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