BF2S Forums Killing small animals verses killing while hunting.

It's not what you kill - it's the motivation behind it.

Was the hamster sick?
Did the owner not want it anymore?
Did the hamster turn vicious and bite people?

Do you plan on eating the game animal?
Are you after a trophy?
Are you trying for a record of some sort?

Honestly, if there is no explainable reason behind the killing, how is hunting something any different to killing any other animal?

I'll repeat:

It's not what you kill - it's the motivation behind it.

Macbeth wrote:

Fenris_GreyClaw wrote:

Was the hamster sick?
Did the owner not want it anymore?
Did the hamster turn vicious and bite people?

Do you plan on eating the game animal?
Are you after a trophy?
Are you trying for a record of some sort?

Honestly, if there is no explainable reason behind the killing, how is hunting something any different to killing any other animal?

I'll repeat:

It's not what you kill - it's the motivation behind it.

You had an argument with your parents and then went to the store bought a hamster and threw it against a wall till it died. How is that different from having an argument with your wife and then deciding to go hunting for a few hours and ambushing and shooting any deer that came by and not taking the meat?

Why is one considered animal cruelty and the other a perfectly acceptable way to spend your afternoon?

I wouldn't see it as any different, but the reason most likely is that Hunting is a sport:

Think of it like playing a 'practice game' of <insert other sport here>. Given the motivation behind it though, I don't see a difference between those situations.

Its a natural thing. The act of actually hunting think is psychologically far seperate from indescriminate animal cruelty.

I find a little bit of pleasure in keeping rabbits etc down, but thats more the rush of getting the perfect shot etc, not some sadistic 'haha look at his brains' feeling.

Protip: Shooting something or dispatching of it in as humane a manner as possible at the time =/= animal cruelty.


There does have to be a purpose though. Killing for the sake of killing is wrong. I'm with Fenris, it's the intention.



In one night I bled well over a thousand fish, but as I knew the meat from each and every single one was headed to markets for consumption by people I didn't see a problem.

Last edited by Flecco (2009-04-22 18:11:51)

imortal wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

imortal wrote:

Well, I suppose you could make the same argument for fishing, then.  Right?

That being said, I assume you do not hunt, since you have no concept about it.  I do not believe in sport hunting; I have more game meat in my freezer than any bought meat.  But it is still considered a sport.  The difference is one of power.  Hunting is still a hunt.  You are not buying an animal, have the animal fully in your control at all times.  The small, furry animal has no chance.  A hunted animal in the open has a chance. 

Oh, and small furry animals are cuter.  Of course you have to be creul to hurt them.  Yes, emotions enter into it.

Um sitting in one spot blowing a whistle and shooting a shotgun into a flock of birds is hunting? Sitting in one spot waiting for something to come by and shooting it is hunting? Seems like ambushing really.

Wouldn't that be worse? Thinking your a hunter that your out for the kill and all that bullshit. Seems worse than flushing something down a hole with water to drown it.

Still is dependant on the skill of the one doing the hunting.  And a bit of luck.  It is not quite as easy as you like to make out.

You just don't have the frame of reference.  In your mind, hunting and abusing small animals are already equated, so you won't accept that hunting (which I am pretty sure you have never done) is actually different from abusing and killing small animals (which I certainly hope you have never done).  There is a difference in motivation, in the placement of power and control, and a difference in the skill required and the probability of success.

Oh, and I am still against hunting for sport alone.  If you do, at least donate the meat; don't let it go to waste.

1. There is a difference in motivation     Have a good time
2. placement of power and control    A deer can't carry around a rifle (power) and a deer can't leave the forest, go home, and take a nap in bed. (control)
3. a difference in the skill required and the probability of success. 

A deer lets say 20 feet away from grandpa with his rifle and scope doesn't have a chance.

Macbeth wrote:

I mean what the difference between killing those baby mice and blowing a deer head off and not eating it? It's still a life right?

You don't shoot deer in the head. Where did you ever get the idea that people go around blowing the heads off deer?

edit: The reason why headshots aren't usually taken, or atleast the reason why I was taught not to do this, was because it's a relativly small target, and if you miss there's a high chance of hitting the deer in the neck or having a shot miss the brain and the deer run off the bleed to death.

So why the outrage about hunting, but not one mention of fishing? It's still a life right?

Last edited by NateWiese (2009-04-22 18:40:59)

NateWiese wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

I mean what the difference between killing those baby mice and blowing a deer head off and not eating it? It's still a life right?

You don't shoot deer in the head. Where did you ever get the idea that people go around blowing the heads off deer?

So why the outrage about hunting, but not one mention of fishing? It's still a life right?

I don't know about you, but I've never seen a fisherman catch good fish and just leave them on the ground. Either they take what they catch, throw it back, or give it to people fishing nearby.

The only time I've ever seen it happen is when its an introduced species/pest fish. Even then, they're killed quickly.

Also:

Flecco wrote:

In one night I bled well over a thousand fish, but as I knew the meat from each and every single one was headed to markets for consumption by people I didn't see a problem.

Macbeth wrote:

1. There is a difference in motivation     Have a good time

Your prejudgices are showing.  You are making unfounded assumptions.  Yes, hunting has an element of enjoying yourself.  There are other motivations.  I assume you are still talking only about hunting and not taking the meat?  Second, I guess you are making the assumption that killing small animals is for having a good time?  I would posit that the abuse of small, helpless animals would be more a method of exerting control over something, much in the way rape is more about dominance than it is about sexual gratification.

Macbeth wrote:

2. placement of power and control    A deer can't carry around a rifle (power) and a deer can't leave the forest, go home, and take a nap in bed. (control)

Again, you are making an assumption that if you sit in the woods, you can just rake in the kills.  That is not true.  Even to those who sit in a stand, bait the target area, and wait with high powered rifle have no assured chance of success.  Oh, and ALL of the people I know who hunt like that harvest all of their meat, demonstrating the difference in motivation once again.

Macbeth wrote:

3. a difference in the skill required and the probability of success. 
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/rifle-scope-1.jpg
A deer lets say 20 feet away from grandpa with his rifle and scope doesn't have a chance.

Again with your assumtions.  You assume that said hunter is not stalking his prey.  The distances involved are closer to 450 feet than the 20 feet you assume.  Again, unless you use a stand and bait, and again, hunting for meat.

Now, when you are hunting for sport, the entire purpose of it is for it to be sport!  I know, hard concept to understand.  If it is too easy, then the element of sport is lost.  You are not hunting, you are killing.  Please note that it is illeagal to hunt in ways that seem to make it unfair.  No hunting along roads (where the deer freeze in your headlights).  No using spotlights to hunt at all, in fact.

I am going to conditionally agree with you on a single point.  Please do not take it out of context.  On the very limited area of those who "hunt" (note the quotes) by shooting a confined (either tethered or in a reduced area enclosure) animal for no other reason than the thrill of the kill itself (as opposed to the excitment of the hunt, with the kill only being the conclusion), then under those very restrictive circumstances, I will agree that those circumstances are very closely linked with the abuse and killing of small (pet) animals.  I will also add that people who kill in that fashion are not considered hunters by those of us who do hunt. They are actually reviled, and give true hunters a bad reputation.

There, I amended my position, based on the realization that you and I were looking at different events and called them both hunting.  You don't have s much experience with hunting, so I am going to assume that you did not realize the difference.  There are several kinds of hunting.  There is hunting by stalk, tree stand hunting, bird hunting (which is seriously hard; those shotguns have no sights, and the targets are small and really, really fast!  I have been dove hunting twice, and have yet to hit one of the bastards), bow hunting, hunting with muzzleloaders....  Also, you do not have the 'whole forest' to work with.  You can't just follow the game wherever they go, and even if you try, game animals are a lot better at getting away than we are at chasing.  They are faster, more maneuverable, have better senses, and blend in easily.  It really is not as easy as you make it seem; there is no guarantee of success.  And yes; I eat not only my game, but those of my friends who have more than they need.

Macbeth wrote:

I thought about this today. Now they say killing small animals is a sign of mental illness. So it would be considered a sign that I am ill if I bought home a bunch of baby mice and flushed them down a toilet right? But what if I go out hunting and decide to ambush and blow the head off of a deer with a hunting rifle and not actually eat the meat?

I mean what the difference between killing those baby mice and blowing a deer head off and not eating it? It's still a life right? So my question is:

Should hunting and not using the animal as food be considered a sign of mental illness since killing small animals in your home is a sign of illness?

Kmarion wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

I thought about this today. Now they say killing small animals is a sign of mental illness. So it would be considered a sign that I am ill if I bought home a bunch of baby mice and flushed them down a toilet right? But what if I go out hunting and decide to ambush and blow the head off of a deer with a hunting rifle and not actually eat the meat?

I mean what the difference between killing those baby mice and blowing a deer head off and not eating it? It's still a life right? So my question is:

Should hunting and not using the animal as food be considered a sign of mental illness since killing small animals in your home is a sign of illness?

The world is chock full of contradictions.

It's one of those puzzling things. Like why do people quote the OP?

I donno.

On topic: No. But my take on hunting is kill what you are going to eat. And if I found mice in my house, I wouldn't mind flushing them down a toilet, they're rodents FFS.

I would posit that the abuse of small, helpless animals would be more a method of exerting control over something, much in the way rape is more about dominance than it is about sexual gratification.

It is different for some people. The idea that psychologist think that rape is about dominance and killing is about control is silly. Killing isn't always about control, at least from killing small animals that is all I can give view on. Rape is most times about the sex. They just say it's about control to make you feel better afterward. Not that I've ever been raped or have raped.

Again, you are making an assumption that if you sit in the woods, you can just rake in the kills.  That is not true.  Even to those who sit in a stand, bait the target area, and wait with high powered rifle have no assured chance of success.  Oh, and ALL of the people I know who hunt like that harvest all of their meat, demonstrating the difference in motivation once again.

Find me a deer that at night decides to get in his SUV and go home to the suburbs and I'll concede that point. Otherwise you do have an infinite amount of control over a deer, with your GPS, Scopes, Rifles, Bait, Hunting Dogs etc.

I am going to conditionally agree with you on a single point.  Please do not take it out of context.  On the very limited area of those who "hunt" (note the quotes) by shooting a confined (either tethered or in a reduced area enclosure) animal for no other reason than the thrill of the kill itself (as opposed to the excitment of the hunt, with the kill only being the conclusion), then under those very restrictive circumstances, I will agree that those circumstances are very closely linked with the abuse and killing of small (pet) animals.  I will also add that people who kill in that fashion are not considered hunters by those of us who do hunt. They are actually reviled, and give true hunters a bad reputation.

Lovely common ground

There, I amended my position, based on the realization that you and I were looking at different events and called them both hunting.  You don't have s much experience with hunting, so I am going to assume that you did not realize the difference.  There are several kinds of hunting.  There is hunting by stalk, tree stand hunting, bird hunting (which is seriously hard; those shotguns have no sights, and the targets are small and really, really fast!  I have been dove hunting twice, and have yet to hit one of the bastards), bow hunting, hunting with muzzleloaders....  Also, you do not have the 'whole forest' to work with.  You can't just follow the game wherever they go, and even if you try, game animals are a lot better at getting away than we are at chasing.  They are faster, more maneuverable, have better senses, and blend in easily.  It really is not as easy as you make it seem; there is no guarantee of success.  And yes; I eat not only my game, but those of my friends who have more than they need.

I have no problem as long as you eat the damn thing then call it sport, but to me it just seems without the eating part to be going into the woods and shooting things for fun.

If it's for pest control or food I think it is perfectly acceptable.

Off topic - does meat you got from hunting taste better is it hard to prepare?