this thread.
*facedesk*
*facedesk*
Well, Ethiopia is very much a Christian country. I'm sure you are familiar with all the Christianess surrounding there. Cameroon is about 40% Christian and tbh I don't know many details about religion there - but Christianity is the most practiced religion, just about.lowing wrote:
You say this is happening in mostly Christian countries, is it Christians wh oare doing this?Bertster7 wrote:
I would quote the Marriage Act of 1961 at you, but their site appears to be down at the moment.lowing wrote:
Don't just tell me, show me where it is legal under some Christian laws, or govt. laws that you can molest or sell a 6-8 year old girl into slavery to pay a debt.
Here's a link to it anyway (think that's the right one).
http://home-affairs.pwv.gov.za/documents/act25.pdf
In any case here's a little quote from Wikipedia, not the best source, but better than nothing:As young as 12 for females. I class that as child marriage.In South Africa, there are legal provisions made for respecting the marriage laws of traditional marriages whereby a person might be married as young as 12 for females and 14 for males.
In other countries like Ethiopia and Cameroon, which have Christian majorities, child marriages account for as many as 60% of marriages. Whilst this is in breach of the UDHR no one seems to pay any attention to that - but then the US don't pay too much attention to it either, so you can't blame them too much.
If the girl is 12 how old is the man, 14? 18? 50?
Are these marriages arranged to settle debt?
Since dowries are very traditional in Africa, I'm sure they are sold - or possibly they pay them to take them away, I thought that was the norm for dowries - either way, money changes hands.
It happens. Lots of UN aid workers complain about it - I have lots of friends who are UN aid workers, that's where I hear all this stuff from.
Ok, so here it is, if it is acceptable, normal etc... why the outrage from your friends? Obviously it is not normal or acceptable.Bertster7 wrote:
Well, Ethiopia is very much a Christian country. I'm sure you are familiar with all the Christianess surrounding there. Cameroon is about 40% Christian and tbh I don't know many details about religion there - but Christianity is the most practiced religion, just about.lowing wrote:
You say this is happening in mostly Christian countries, is it Christians wh oare doing this?Bertster7 wrote:
I would quote the Marriage Act of 1961 at you, but their site appears to be down at the moment.lowing wrote:
Don't just tell me, show me where it is legal under some Christian laws, or govt. laws that you can molest or sell a 6-8 year old girl into slavery to pay a debt.
Here's a link to it anyway (think that's the right one).
http://home-affairs.pwv.gov.za/documents/act25.pdf
In any case here's a little quote from Wikipedia, not the best source, but better than nothing:
As young as 12 for females. I class that as child marriage.
In other countries like Ethiopia and Cameroon, which have Christian majorities, child marriages account for as many as 60% of marriages. Whilst this is in breach of the UDHR no one seems to pay any attention to that - but then the US don't pay too much attention to it either, so you can't blame them too much.
If the girl is 12 how old is the man, 14? 18? 50?
Are these marriages arranged to settle debt?
Since dowries are very traditional in Africa, I'm sure they are sold - or possibly they pay them to take them away, I thought that was the norm for dowries - either way, money changes hands.
It happens. Lots of UN aid workers complain about it - I have lots of friends who are UN aid workers, that's where I hear all this stuff from.
Sorry, this all started in another thread where Muhammad's actions were defended as being "ancient times and that is just the way it was back then". Once I read the OP this morning, which seemed to contradict that defense, I thought it was thread worthy.S3v3N wrote:
this thread.
*facedesk*
Tell ya what, if ya don't wanna participate in it, feel free not to., no harm no foul.
Last edited by lowing (2009-04-13 11:22:09)
Whoever said it was acceptable or normal?lowing wrote:
Ok, so here it is, if it is acceptable, normal etc... why the outrage from your friends? Obviously it is not normal or acceptable.Bertster7 wrote:
Well, Ethiopia is very much a Christian country. I'm sure you are familiar with all the Christianess surrounding there. Cameroon is about 40% Christian and tbh I don't know many details about religion there - but Christianity is the most practiced religion, just about.lowing wrote:
You say this is happening in mostly Christian countries, is it Christians wh oare doing this?
If the girl is 12 how old is the man, 14? 18? 50?
Are these marriages arranged to settle debt?
Since dowries are very traditional in Africa, I'm sure they are sold - or possibly they pay them to take them away, I thought that was the norm for dowries - either way, money changes hands.
It happens. Lots of UN aid workers complain about it - I have lots of friends who are UN aid workers, that's where I hear all this stuff from.
I said it happens in Christian countries too not just Islamic ones. That was my only point. I'm certainly not trying to justify it.
I did want to participate, infact I had a quite a nice contribution that I had thought out.lowing wrote:
Sorry, this all started in another thread where Muhammad's actions were defended as being "ancient times and that is just the way it was back then". Once I read the OP this morning, which seemed to contradict that defense, I thought it was thread worthy.S3v3N wrote:
this thread.
*facedesk*
Tell ya what, if ya don't wanna participate in it, feel free not to., no harm no foul.
then after several minutes of debate when pressing the submit button. I figured two things, a) my post would be ignored or b) flamewars of my sources.
Not to mention the way I read this thread is, Everybody vs. Lowing.
so in the end I said fuck it. as I do with most of posts I'd like to contribute in DST.
Last edited by S3v3N (2009-04-13 11:41:59)
Your missing my point, there is no outrage in the Muslim world over it. Christians are applalled over this shit. Even people in this forum does not see a problem with it and defended it as long as ALL parties agreed to it.Bertster7 wrote:
Whoever said it was acceptable or normal?lowing wrote:
Ok, so here it is, if it is acceptable, normal etc... why the outrage from your friends? Obviously it is not normal or acceptable.Bertster7 wrote:
Well, Ethiopia is very much a Christian country. I'm sure you are familiar with all the Christianess surrounding there. Cameroon is about 40% Christian and tbh I don't know many details about religion there - but Christianity is the most practiced religion, just about.
Since dowries are very traditional in Africa, I'm sure they are sold - or possibly they pay them to take them away, I thought that was the norm for dowries - either way, money changes hands.
It happens. Lots of UN aid workers complain about it - I have lots of friends who are UN aid workers, that's where I hear all this stuff from.
I said it happens in Christian countries too not just Islamic ones. That was my only point. I'm certainly not trying to justify it.
Well, I see what you are saying, and yeah, this forum does take a "everyone vs lowing" turn. Truely not my intention. I guess that is what ya get when you are a politically incorrect conservative in a socialist, govt. tit sucking, forum.S3v3N wrote:
I did want to participate, infact I had a quite a nice contribution that I had thought out.lowing wrote:
Sorry, this all started in another thread where Muhammad's actions were defended as being "ancient times and that is just the way it was back then". Once I read the OP this morning, which seemed to contradict that defense, I thought it was thread worthy.S3v3N wrote:
this thread.
*facedesk*
Tell ya what, if ya don't wanna participate in it, feel free not to., no harm no foul.
then after several minutes of debate when pressing the submit button. I figured two things, a) my post would be ignored or b) flamewars of my sources.
Not to mention the way I read this thread is, Everybody vs. Lowing.
so in the end I said fuck it. as I do with most of posts I'd like to contribute in DST.
If you still have that post I would like to read it.
lowing wrote:
Your missing my point, there is no outrage in the Muslim world over it. Christians are applalled over this shit. Even people in this forum does not see a problem with it and defended it as long as ALL parties agreed to it.
OPSource wrote:
The case, which has drawn criticism from local and international rights groups
"We've been hearing about these types of cases once every four or five months because the Saudi public is now able to express this kind of anger -- especially so when girls are traded off to older men," Wilcke said.
It is Islamic law, if you do not like the belief system you have adopted for yourself, don't practice it.PureFodder wrote:
lowing wrote:
Your missing my point, there is no outrage in the Muslim world over it. Christians are applalled over this shit. Even people in this forum does not see a problem with it and defended it as long as ALL parties agreed to it.OPSource wrote:
The case, which has drawn criticism from local and international rights groups
"We've been hearing about these types of cases once every four or five months because the Saudi public is now able to express this kind of anger -- especially so when girls are traded off to older men," Wilcke said.
you are not able to pick and choose what you want to hold as truth. Either you believe in it, or you do not.
To cherry pick the parts of a religion you want to uphold while ignoring the rest, is not worshipping that religion. Clearly these people are not adhering to Islamic law, therefore they are not adhering to Islam.
THe same goes for Christians, to cherry pick parts of Christianity, while ignoring the inconvinient parts, you are not worshipping Christianity.
Also "local and international rights groups" does not denote Islamic groups.
Meh. Christian Priests molest small boys too. It will most likely always be there in some form or another.
Mostly because you insisted that this was a problem that all Muslims have, when clearly it is not.lowing wrote:
Well, I see what you are saying, and yeah, this forum does take a "everyone vs lowing" turn. Truely not my intention. I guess that is what ya get when you are a politically incorrect conservative in a socialist, govt. tit sucking, forum.S3v3N wrote:
I did want to participate, infact I had a quite a nice contribution that I had thought out.lowing wrote:
Sorry, this all started in another thread where Muhammad's actions were defended as being "ancient times and that is just the way it was back then". Once I read the OP this morning, which seemed to contradict that defense, I thought it was thread worthy.
Tell ya what, if ya don't wanna participate in it, feel free not to., no harm no foul.
then after several minutes of debate when pressing the submit button. I figured two things, a) my post would be ignored or b) flamewars of my sources.
Not to mention the way I read this thread is, Everybody vs. Lowing.
so in the end I said fuck it. as I do with most of posts I'd like to contribute in DST.
If you still have that post I would like to read it.
Religion changes with the times, it wont be long now before my views on what constitutes a Christian are wrong and far to narrow to be upheld, especially as I know of a theologian from England who believes anybody who follows the moral teachings of Christ is a Christian, that they don't have to believe in any of the attendant metaphysical mumbo-jumbo like the resurrection, the trinity, a virgin birth etc. etc. While that view is probably heresy right now, 50-100 years down the track? Well shit people call Mormon's Christian don't they.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
It doesn't mean they aren't Islamic either, plus there's the anger coming from the Saudi public. The assertion that there is no outrage from the Muslim world has no solid basis.lowing wrote:
It is Islamic law, if you do not like the belief system you have adopted for yourself, don't practice it.PureFodder wrote:
lowing wrote:
Your missing my point, there is no outrage in the Muslim world over it. Christians are applalled over this shit. Even people in this forum does not see a problem with it and defended it as long as ALL parties agreed to it.OPSource wrote:
The case, which has drawn criticism from local and international rights groups
"We've been hearing about these types of cases once every four or five months because the Saudi public is now able to express this kind of anger -- especially so when girls are traded off to older men," Wilcke said.
you are not able to pick and choose what you want to hold as truth. Either you believe in it, or you do not.
To cherry pick the parts of a religion you want to uphold while ignoring the rest, is not worshipping that religion. Clearly these people are not adhering to Islamic law, therefore they are not adhering to Islam.
THe same goes for Christians, to cherry pick parts of Christianity, while ignoring the inconvinient parts, you are not worshipping Christianity.
Also "local and international rights groups" does not denote Islamic groups.
But of course, in all lowing's personal knowledge of Islam and the Koran, he is the absolute authority on whether people are Islamic or not!
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
I have no personal knowledge of Islam. I can, however, read, hear, and observe the world around me.Spark wrote:
But of course, in all lowing's personal knowledge of Islam and the Koran, he is the absolute authority on whether people are Islamic or not!
You have no personal experience in the military or the war yet you are very vocal with your opinions about both. So please contribute or move along.
No it is not.lowing wrote:
It is Islamic law
Good thing you say it for your self, you have no knowledge of Islam.
الشعب يريد اسقاط النظام
...show me the schematic
...show me the schematic
Now that's a box office comedy hit if ever I saw one!lowing wrote:
No chance, I have 2 sons, for you to have a good laugh, you would have to hope my sons are gay as well.Braddock wrote:
Note to self: Idea for comedy movie...
Lowing's daughter brings her new boyfriend from college home to stay for the Christmas holidays only for lowing to discover he is a Muslim. Riotous comic capers ensue.
Just kidding mate, you're a lucky man to not have the worry of daughters!
You have to see past the smoke screen lowing. Yes, Islamic extremism is a real threat but don't swallow all of the nonsense that the mainstream media is making so much money off of; as someone who may still remember "the reds under the beds" you should have a better perspective than the rest of us. Not every Muslim wants to cut off our infidel heads and molest our virginal daughters. You need look no further than our own m3thod, I can have more fun chatting online here with him than with some of my conservative catholic friends.lowing wrote:
"Islam is just the poster boy of the times." Bingo Braddock, a time in whic hI happen to live in. I really d onot give 2 flying fucks what happened 2000 years ago, or even 1100 years ago. I live here and now, and now Islam is the problem. As far as the Jews in Israel goes, they just have t odeal with the problem more than most of us.Braddock wrote:
Do you only read the bits of posts that you like lowing? Stating that all religion is full of shit is in no way an attempt to "justify" the actions of a religion, on the contrary in fact, it only further points out the absurdity of doing certain things in the name of religion. You have an axe to grind with Islam... we get it. This neurosis you suffer from seems to exclude certain other historical facts from your world-view, facts that would fly in the face of your belief system, for example Zionism being used as a justification for land theft and a tyrannical regime in the Holy land, or Christianity being used as a justification for the land-grabbing and slaughter of the crusades.lowing wrote:
LOL, I always loved the argument, well Islam maybe fucked up but so is every other religion as a justification and rationalisation of the actions of Islam in todays world. This is always used when Islam and the actons committed in its name and its founder, can no longer be expalined away.
Religion is stupid and has always been used as a tool for evil people to try and achieve what they want. Islam is just the poster boy of the times.
I would love to be educated as to how Sharia Law now has nothing to do with Islam.Beduin wrote:
No it is not.lowing wrote:
It is Islamic law
Good thing you say it for your self, you have no knowledge of Islam.
I enjoy debating with M3thod as well, but I can distinguish between the person and the religion. and the religion he chooses to follow is steeped in violence hatred and intolerance far and beyond any other in todays society. Saying this does not imply M3thod, the man, is a threat. His religion however, is.Braddock wrote:
You have to see past the smoke screen lowing. Yes, Islamic extremism is a real threat but don't swallow all of the nonsense that the mainstream media is making so much money off of; as someone who may still remember "the reds under the beds" you should have a better perspective than the rest of us. Not every Muslim wants to cut off our infidel heads and molest our virginal daughters. You need look no further than our own m3thod, I can have more fun chatting online here with him than with some of my conservative catholic friends.lowing wrote:
"Islam is just the poster boy of the times." Bingo Braddock, a time in whic hI happen to live in. I really d onot give 2 flying fucks what happened 2000 years ago, or even 1100 years ago. I live here and now, and now Islam is the problem. As far as the Jews in Israel goes, they just have t odeal with the problem more than most of us.Braddock wrote:
Do you only read the bits of posts that you like lowing? Stating that all religion is full of shit is in no way an attempt to "justify" the actions of a religion, on the contrary in fact, it only further points out the absurdity of doing certain things in the name of religion. You have an axe to grind with Islam... we get it. This neurosis you suffer from seems to exclude certain other historical facts from your world-view, facts that would fly in the face of your belief system, for example Zionism being used as a justification for land theft and a tyrannical regime in the Holy land, or Christianity being used as a justification for the land-grabbing and slaughter of the crusades.
Religion is stupid and has always been used as a tool for evil people to try and achieve what they want. Islam is just the poster boy of the times.
Sharia Law is Islam.lowing wrote:
I would love to be educated as to how Sharia Law now has nothing to do with Islam.Beduin wrote:
No it is not.lowing wrote:
It is Islamic law
Good thing you say it for your self, you have no knowledge of Islam.
But you are saying it is a Sharia Law that allows child abusement, because the marriage of Aisha (rAa) and the saudi judge in the OP? Isn't that what you are trying to say with this thread?
And am saying, no it is not.
I came with an example and pointed out why the saudi judge fails.
I also pointed out by a link, the details of Aisha's (rAa) marriage in the other thread.
الشعب يريد اسقاط النظام
...show me the schematic
...show me the schematic
THe Saudi judge USES Sharia LAW as his resoning for saying this stuff is legal. It is not a failure of the judge, it is a failure of Sharia Law.Beduin wrote:
Sharia Law is Islam.lowing wrote:
I would love to be educated as to how Sharia Law now has nothing to do with Islam.Beduin wrote:
No it is not.
Good thing you say it for your self, you have no knowledge of Islam.
But you are saying it is a Sharia Law that allows child abusement, because the marriage of Aisha (rAa) and the saudi judge in the OP? Isn't that what you are trying to say with this thread?
And am saying, no it is not.
I came with an example and pointed out why the saudi judge fails.
I also pointed out by a link, the details of Aisha's (rAa) marriage in the other thread.
Your link varified exactly what Muhammad did, and it justified it as a practice of the times. A practice Jesus did not take part of, and a practice that is still considered legal, based on the teachings handed down by Muhammad.
Why didn't anyone tell me I had fan mail?!!rammunition wrote:
MODS JUST CLOSE THIS THREAD AND BAN LOWING. THIS THREAD (AND SITE) IS BEING USED FOR HIS TWISTED VIEWS.lowing wrote:
I enjoy debating with M3thod as well, but I can distinguish between the person and the religion. and the religion he chooses to follow is steeped in violence hatred and intolerance far and beyond any other in todays society. Saying this does not imply M3thod, the man, is a threat. His religion however, is.Braddock wrote:
You have to see past the smoke screen lowing. Yes, Islamic extremism is a real threat but don't swallow all of the nonsense that the mainstream media is making so much money off of; as someone who may still remember "the reds under the beds" you should have a better perspective than the rest of us. Not every Muslim wants to cut off our infidel heads and molest our virginal daughters. You need look no further than our own m3thod, I can have more fun chatting online here with him than with some of my conservative catholic friends.
All law in any language is open to interpretation, even the 'divine law' of Islam. There is evidence of this in our courts every time a dispute over a point of law arises.
@ ramm, fuck off.
@ ramm, fuck off.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
But tell me this lowing ... does m3thod have to marry and fuck an 8 year old to be a good muslim, because reading your posts that is exactly what you point out ... correct me if I'm wrong ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................