It can happen, equally its not wise to walk up behind strangers who aren't causing trouble and beat them to the ground.Healthy human being don't have heart attacks because of "stress and shock".
Uh... what? Not unless you have a serious heart condition.rammunition wrote:
i can't be bothered to explain to you, just because he had a heart attack, doesn't mean he had a condition. there is nothing in the papers and online to suggest he had a condition.Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
He died of a heart attack, so I'd say yes.rammunition wrote:
did he have a heart condition? link please!
as i have mentioned, stress and shock can cause heart attacks. there have been causes where shock has caused heart attacks. GOT IT?????!!!!!!
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-04-09 03:56:24)
From the amount of "stress" he was put through, no it doesn't. Not to healthy people. Let's not forget that he sat up and then walked away just fine after the incident as well.Dilbert_X wrote:
It can happen, equally its not wise to walk up behind strangers who aren't causing trouble and beat them to the ground.Healthy human being don't have heart attacks because of "stress and shock".
If you assault someone you have to bear the consequences, whether you're a Police officer or not.
Head injury, perhaps? Those can get nasty, but be unnoticable at first.Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
From the amount of "stress" he was put through, no it doesn't. Not to healthy people. Let's not forget that he sat up and then walked away just fine after the incident as well.Dilbert_X wrote:
It can happen, equally its not wise to walk up behind strangers who aren't causing trouble and beat them to the ground.Healthy human being don't have heart attacks because of "stress and shock".
If you assault someone you have to bear the consequences, whether you're a Police officer or not.
The only thing I'll give you is that the officer didn't need to push him down like that. The most he deserves is a couple weeks suspention or fired if he has any previous suspicious behavior.
Well he could have had a concussion but I don't think that that would lead to his heart attack.Spark wrote:
Head injury, perhaps? Those can get nasty, but be unnoticable at first.Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
From the amount of "stress" he was put through, no it doesn't. Not to healthy people. Let's not forget that he sat up and then walked away just fine after the incident as well.Dilbert_X wrote:
It can happen, equally its not wise to walk up behind strangers who aren't causing trouble and beat them to the ground.
If you assault someone you have to bear the consequences, whether you're a Police officer or not.
The only thing I'll give you is that the officer didn't need to push him down like that. The most he deserves is a couple weeks suspention or fired if he has any previous suspicious behavior.
Last edited by jsnipy (2009-04-09 04:15:01)
lollygaggle?Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:
So being 47 is now a medical contition?Dilbert_X wrote:
He was walking home from work, and how many 47 year olds have you hit exactly?Spark wrote:
If things like getting pushed around can kill you, you might want to stay out of mosh pits and potential riot zones.
The plod did something dangerous and stupid, the guy died, I hope he gets done for manslaughter.
Don't walk through riots areas. Take the long route home. Or don't fucking lollygaggle in front of cops in riot gear.
My true colors would be logical thinking and an ubiased opinion towards law enforcement.Mekstizzle wrote:
To try and put some sort of blame and "personal responsibility" on the deceased just shows some peoples true colours, yeah, it's all his fault clearlyAjax_the_Great1 wrote:
So being 47 is now a medical contition?Dilbert_X wrote:
He was walking home from work, and how many 47 year olds have you hit exactly?
The plod did something dangerous and stupid, the guy died, I hope he gets done for manslaughter.
Don't walk through riots areas. Take the long route home. Or don't fucking lollygaggle in front of cops in riot gear.
In more or less any possible scenario you can conjure up, striking down a man from behind with a baton for passive disobedience is in no way a justified first physical response. What happened in this case is a perfect example of why officers should never resort to violence of this magnitude unless there's a clear and imminent danger, as you never know why people behave the way they do. These guys are still here to protect us, but it seems that some of them tend to forget that.Vilham wrote:
Sorry but having seen that latest video you can hear the police are shouting at people to move back, if you don't expect to get moved back by force or arrested then your kidding yourself. Everyone else was very visibly moving away from the police line. He didn't, he got pushed, he fell like a sack of shit for whatever reason, the police officer was heavy handed to hit him with the baton but otherwise, I think Tomlinson got off at that point pretty lightly for disobeying a police order.
He could of gone another way home, there's a huge protest going on. If you don't want to get caught up in it, don't go through it or moved when the police tell you to move.
The police officer should be fired or face disciplinary action for the baton hit, which I'm sure he will, but that doesn't change the fact that Tomlinson is a dolt.
Sorry Vilham but you're dead wrong, as usual. I can only assume you hold this viewpoint because you yourself have a bad temper and/or low tolerance and are maybe considering a career in the security services as some sort of means to vent your own aggression?Vilham wrote:
Sorry but having seen that latest video you can hear the police are shouting at people to move back, if you don't expect to get moved back by force or arrested then your kidding yourself. Everyone else was very visibly moving away from the police line. He didn't, he got pushed, he fell like a sack of shit for whatever reason, the police officer was heavy handed to hit him with the baton but otherwise, I think Tomlinson got off at that point pretty lightly for disobeying a police order.
He could of gone another way home, there's a huge protest going on. If you don't want to get caught up in it, don't go through it or moved when the police tell you to move.
The police officer should be fired or face disciplinary action for the baton hit, which I'm sure he will, but that doesn't change the fact that Tomlinson is a dolt.
Heaven forbid someone would be annoyed at the police breaking the very rules they are supposed to be enforcing.Lotta_Drool wrote:
The guy was in the Police's way and they appear to tell him to leave but he doesn't move any faster or react. He got knocked to the ground, boo fucking hoo to the pussies that are making a huge deal out of this.
Last edited by Braddock (2009-04-11 15:08:04)
The Rule: The Police tell citizens what to do, then the citizens comply if it is a legal order.Braddock wrote:
Heaven forbid someone would be annoyed at the police breaking the very rules they are supposed to be enforcing.Lotta_Drool wrote:
The guy was in the Police's way and they appear to tell him to leave but he doesn't move any faster or react. He got knocked to the ground, boo fucking hoo to the pussies that are making a huge deal out of this.
Fucking right-wingers, I swear to God... it's like they're from another planet.
Unless the citizen is ACTUALLY commiting an offence or about to commit an offence, police have no power telling a citizen what to do.Lotta_Drool wrote:
The Rule: The Police tell citizens what to do, then the citizens comply if it is a legal order.Braddock wrote:
Heaven forbid someone would be annoyed at the police breaking the very rules they are supposed to be enforcing.Lotta_Drool wrote:
The guy was in the Police's way and they appear to tell him to leave but he doesn't move any faster or react. He got knocked to the ground, boo fucking hoo to the pussies that are making a huge deal out of this.
Fucking right-wingers, I swear to God... it's like they're from another planet.
When the rule is not followed shit happens like in the video. Man I wished they tased his ass to death like the bridge jumper. Then this thread would be justified.
I hate to break it you but they are not the rules.Lotta_Drool wrote:
The Rule: The Police tell citizens what to do, then the citizens comply if it is a legal order.Braddock wrote:
Heaven forbid someone would be annoyed at the police breaking the very rules they are supposed to be enforcing.Lotta_Drool wrote:
The guy was in the Police's way and they appear to tell him to leave but he doesn't move any faster or react. He got knocked to the ground, boo fucking hoo to the pussies that are making a huge deal out of this.
Fucking right-wingers, I swear to God... it's like they're from another planet.
When the rule is not followed shit happens like in the video. Man I wished they tased his ass to death like the bridge jumper. Then this thread would be justified.
That might be the case in the USA, not in Europe.The Rule: The Police tell citizens what to do, then the citizens comply if it is a legal order.
isn't this the protest you boasted about going to where you would give the police a fight?rammunition wrote:
this guy was just walking home, nothing to do with this protest, why a thug pushed him, we dont know. i can tell you if you watch where the man fell you can just about see him fall chest first. plus people can get heart attacks from shock, no doubt the pig involved is responsible for his death in my eyes.
i have also been pushed round by "police" officers at protests, they do it on purpose without warning
Yeah I have such a terrible temper... With all of zero fights ive been in since school.Braddock wrote:
Sorry Vilham but you're dead wrong, as usual. I can only assume you hold this viewpoint because you yourself have a bad temper and/or low tolerance and are maybe considering a career in the security services as some sort of means to vent your own aggression?
Firstly, he "fell like a sack of shit", as you so eloquently put it, because he wasn't looking and had his hands in his pockets when the officer pushed him with considerable force. As already pointed out by other people in this thread, you cannot do that to members of the public who are in no way showing any physical aggression towards you, riot or no riot. If anyone else did that it would be assault plain and simple. Secondly, Tomlinson had the right to go home whatever way he saw fit, it was the police's job to inform him what routes were being closed off, which they did... it was not their job to violently put him to the ground for no good reason.
Also, what annoys me most about the story is the attitude of the police. They lied about the incident initially until the video surfaced showing what actually happened, then they lied about what happened when he was being treated until the video surfaced showing what actually happened, then it took a full week for the officer in question to come forward. They just don't seem trustworthy sometimes, it was the same with the De Menezez case.
What are you talking about - legal rights? Legal orders? What the fuck? You've never studied law have you? The police force are there to enforce criminal and civil order to ensure the safety of the public. They can't make any 'legal orders' or decide whether or not an innocent bystander has infringed upon their 'legal rights'. They're there to enforce and back-up the rules in the books/legislation that are already written, not to take (riot) law into their own hands and deal out justice as they see fit. This incident was clearly a case of Mr.Macho cop getting a little too fired up with the tension and excitement of the moment, and lashing out on a completely innocent and uninvolved party. Under no public order legislation or in no police training/legal conduct documents are you going to find a clause that allows behaviour such as that. For there to be any application of (lawful or unlawful) force there must be a direct perceived threat or an aggravating and aggressing party. Where was that here? I point you to the men in riot gear with batons.Vilham wrote:
Yeah I have such a terrible temper... With all of zero fights ive been in since school.Braddock wrote:
Sorry Vilham but you're dead wrong, as usual. I can only assume you hold this viewpoint because you yourself have a bad temper and/or low tolerance and are maybe considering a career in the security services as some sort of means to vent your own aggression?
Firstly, he "fell like a sack of shit", as you so eloquently put it, because he wasn't looking and had his hands in his pockets when the officer pushed him with considerable force. As already pointed out by other people in this thread, you cannot do that to members of the public who are in no way showing any physical aggression towards you, riot or no riot. If anyone else did that it would be assault plain and simple. Secondly, Tomlinson had the right to go home whatever way he saw fit, it was the police's job to inform him what routes were being closed off, which they did... it was not their job to violently put him to the ground for no good reason.
Also, what annoys me most about the story is the attitude of the police. They lied about the incident initially until the video surfaced showing what actually happened, then they lied about what happened when he was being treated until the video surfaced showing what actually happened, then it took a full week for the officer in question to come forward. They just don't seem trustworthy sometimes, it was the same with the De Menezez case.
Why wasn't he looking? The police were giving him a direct LEGAL order, something he refused to comply with and should of been arrested for. I would take getting pushed over a criminal record anyday. The police have every right to move you back from their line by force if you refuse to move yourself. He was warned by 15 police shouting move back. He was warned with a light shove. The baton hit was clearly unnessecary, but the second push was not. And that is clearly all it was. A push and not "violently putting him to the ground for no good reason.", Tomlinson should have been paying attention and following police orders.
You have ZERO legal right to walk through a riot police line and the police and media clearly informed the public of the protests going on and where they were.
I have already said the baton hit was unnessecary and yes the police may have witheld information they had, or alternatively they might not have been made aware by the officers that the incident happened in the first place.
Last edited by Vilham (2009-04-19 10:21:33)
