BF2S Forums Russia doing a few upgrades...

Shahter wrote:

Flecco wrote:

.Sup wrote:

"Russia will spend nearly $140bn (£94.5bn) on buying arms up until 2011."

Buying from who? Aren't they making their own arms for themselves?

I believe the arms industry there is separate from the state now.

yeah... on the paper.

I thought Putin had succeeded in clamping down on the antics that took place during Yeltsin's second term as far as Berezofsky, Potanin and Kordokovsky (sp?) were concerned? He went the other way did he and had the state buy into everything again?


Actually, I'm curious, Shahter, what did you think of the way the so called 'oligarchs' acted during Yeltsin's reign in Russia? Did you like the direction Russia was moving in before Putin came to power? Just I saw a French documentary about that period of time in Russian politics the other night. Barely scratched the surface but was very interesting and fairly informative.

The information is most likely outdated, but I remember reading a while back that Russia would reach its pre-collapse levels of military by around 2020, if it did some serious rearming. Not sure how accurate that is though.

Flecco wrote:

Shahter wrote:

Flecco wrote:

I believe the arms industry there is separate from the state now.

yeah... on the paper.

I thought Putin had succeeded in clamping down on the antics that took place during Yeltsin's second term as far as Berezofsky, Potanin and Kordokovsky (sp?) were concerned? He went the other way did he and had the state buy into everything again?


Actually, I'm curious, Shahter, what did you think of the way the so called 'oligarchs' acted during Yeltsin's reign in Russia? Did you like the direction Russia was moving in before Putin came to power? Just I saw a French documentary about that period of time in Russian politics the other night. Barely scratched the surface but was very interesting and fairly informative.

well... i really dunno. you see, i think it's very hard for people who never lived in this country to understand what happened. and no, i'm not preaching "great mystery of russian soul" here like some would - we are made of the same stuff everybody else on this globe is made of.

imagine what would your country become if suddently everybody forgot how to prepare a tax declaration, if nobody knew about stock market and so on and so forth - you know, when USSR collapsed there simply wasn't enough people in russia who knew how to drive this bloody thing called "capitalism" and "democracy". and those who were in power at the time were the same genious dudes who opened soviet economy up for the world market to tear apart. common people were so used to all - very basic to your eyes - stuff done for them that they were completely lost in all the chaos that ensued. the only people who actually could do stuff were... the ones you now know as "oligarkhs".

do you know how berezovsky made his fortune? i don't know the exact details, but he or his accomplices convinced the govt at the time that it'd be good way to stumlate russian automobile industry if they'd be allowed a great tax exampt for exporting russian-made cars into eastern europe contries. after that was done they convinced some other dudes that if they greatly lowered customs fees for importing cars from those same countries thet'd be kewl for the local market. guess what they did next? they exported their bloody cars to poland and promptly imported them back paying next to nothing in taxes and customs duties. i think they were even awarded some budget money for "marketing" russian cars in europe.

that's just one example, i could go on, but you get the idea i guess. what do i think? as i said - i dunno. honestly, i don't think it could have happened any other way - once they opened USSR's shell most of russian industry was immediately doomed because it was utterly uncompetitive on the world market.

as to putin and his crew - yeah, he sort of subdued the "ovsky"-es (or, you know, took 'em in), but the damage is already done and, honestly, i don't think it's possible to rebuild all the stuff that was wasted and/or sold for scrap metal - not anytime soon anyway.

Yeah the doco made it sound a lot like that Shahter, sounds pretty shit tbh.

Fuck.

Lets hope we and they dont do anything stupid, like shoot up an embassy or something.

I'm off to Moscow for Easter Weekend! I'll have a quiet word with the Kremlin to ease off on the military spending. In preparation for the trip I've obviously been reading up quite a bit on Russian politics and Russian culture/attitude - it seems to me that Russians prefer to have good strong leadership providing stability over such trifling western 'luxuries' as completely free speech and independent media. It's probably something the west will come to understand when the wheels fall off liberal democracy in a few decades time (at which point Russia's military spending will look like a stroke of genius).

Last edited by CameronPoe (2009-03-19 02:54:57)

CameronPoe wrote:

I'm off to Moscow for Easter Weekend! I'll have a quiet word with the Kremlin to ease off on the military spending. In preparation for the trip I've obviously been reading up quite a bit on Russian politics and Russian culture/attitude - it seems to me that Russians prefer to have good strong leadership providing stability over such trifling western 'luxuries' as completely free speech and independent media. It's probably something the west will come to understand when the wheels fall off liberal democracy in a few decades time (at which point Russia's military spending will look like a stroke of genius).

have fun, cam. you've chosen a bad time of the year to visit though - the weather always sucks in moscow in march and so does its looks.

p.s. oh, and don't bother asking "average" russian in the street about urkrain or anything - that person most probably wouldn't speak english so you'd get "fuk zem" at best .

Last edited by Shahter (2009-03-19 03:21:03)

$140B going into Russia's military is a good thing.

Would be good to see Russia back on it's feet, in a geopolitical sense.

As long as we're not going back to the bad old days of Mutually Assured Destruction and Cold War brinkmanship.

Would be nice to have Russia at the table again, keeping China, the Middle East, and Europe honest. 
_{Oh.. wait.. did I type the Europe part?  oops.. meant to just think that really loudly.}


And, Cameron, it's not so much that the 'wheels will come off liberal democracy. 
Free speech and independent media is still a good idea.
It's just that popular Western media culture has forgotten the values of common sense, stoicism, honest work ethics, and forbearance.
A little more John Wayne, and a little less Metrosexual, and we'd be back on track here.

The old school independent stoic types still exist in the USA, but they are in the non-urban states of the USA.
Montana, Wyoming, Alaska, etc..  where we don't have major media studios to broadcast our perspectives.
What you see of the USA in the media is New York, Chicago, Atlanta, D.C., and California mentality.
That silent other half of the USA probably has more in common with the Russian character than the modern urban European.

Last edited by rdx-fx (2009-03-19 18:15:26)

xBlackPantherx wrote:

Is it just me or has Russia always been behind, military-wise?

Not so much, until the fall of the Iron Curtain.

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

$140B won't make a dent in their military situation right now.

That would buy 1700 F35s or 1,000 F22s- if they could get them, or presumably develop their own equivalent.
$140B a year over 10 years = 17,000 F35s or 10,000 F22s

Pretty sure thats a bit ahead of 1980s US/NATO standards.

They can't get them.

And considering they'd have to spend far more than that just to develop the damn things (as well as the precursor technologies), it won't even come close.

Math absent context = fail.

And considering they'd have to spend far more than that just to develop the damn things (as well as the precursor technologies), it won't even come close.

The Russians can do things a lot cheaper and quicker than you think, if they choose to, plus they're better at lateral thinking.
Not that their airforce is really a big issue with MAD.

I reckon 20 Sukhois would give an F22 a run for its money.

Countries with more combat experience than Russia


US, UK, Canada, El Salvador, Macedonia....

rammunition wrote:

Rearmament is the only way for Russia to preserve its freedom and independence. Only with a strong military they will be able to counter the aggressive policy of US.

dude, did russia sign the treaty of versaille or something? 

friggin football bat

Last edited by Man With No Name (2009-03-20 11:08:46)

M.O.A.B wrote:

rammunition wrote:

KuSTaV wrote:

Fuck.

Lets hope we and they dont do anything stupid, like shoot up an embassy or something.

they wont

Rearmament is the only way for Russia to preserve its freedom and independence. Only with a strong military they will be able to counter the aggressive policy of US.

Georgia and Chechnya not included anywhere in there? lol

Georgia is a U.S puppet, went crying to the U.S for help and the U.S knew they would be eradicated if they stepped in the Russia/Georgia conflict.

as for chechnya, thats a different subject.