Abortion and Welfare Payment

2009-03-17 14:13:18

#1

Finray: Hup! Dos, Tres, Cuatro; +2,629|5785|Catherine Black

Saw an interesting debate recently..

If the man wants an abortion, but the woman says no

There should be a signed contract stating that the man should never have to pay for a THING the whole childs life

This should be law!!!!!

To which someone replied

IF THE FATHER DOESN'T WANT TO DEAL WITH THE CONSEQUENCES OF HAVING SEX, REGARDLESS OF WHETHER HE USED CONTRACEPTION OR NOT, THEN HE SHOULD NOT HAVE SEX.

ONE CANNOT ABSOLVE ONES SELF OF RESPONSIBILITY IN THE WAY OP SUGGESTS, TO DO SO WOULD BE UNETHICAL IN MY OPINION

To which this was replied..

What if the mother doesn't want to deal with the consequences? How come she still has the right to abortion then?

So, if a man and a woman have sex, and the man decides that it is not the right time in his life to have a child, but the woman wants the baby, then he has no say in the matter? And if the woman decides that it is not the right time in her life to have a child, but the man wants the baby, then he still has no say in the matter?

'My uterus, my choice!', you say? Well, if it is your sole choice, then it should be your sole responsibility, end of story.

Child support should simply not be awarded for children born outside of wedlock. Unless you were married at the time of conception you have to reason to assume that he wants the commitment of a child with you. If you got pregnant, it's your uterus, and your fault. There are plenty of forms of birth control that are an option for you, as well as the morning after pill and abortion.

The vast majority of societies ills would be solved if women had to make sure they would receive willing and voluntary support from the fathers of their children before having them, instead of expecting to extort it out of them, or take it from all taxpayers in the form of welfare.

I am seriously on the fence with this one... but leaning slightly more towards the first and third argument...

What do you guys think?

Last edited by liquidat0r (2009-03-17 14:21:11)

2009-03-17 14:15:57

#2

kylef: Gone; +1,352|6490|N. Ireland

I am for abortion, for several reasons. Firstly, there is no contraception that is proven to be 100% effective. Mistakes are going to happen - and they can ruin lives (whilst ironically creating them). Financially, if you can't bring a kid up then you shouldn't have a kid. As simple as. Abortion helps to reduce accidental pregnancies and it helps to keep some people's lives better. Besides, we need to make our own entertainment this weather, the movies are too expensive

When does abortion become murder? It's called a 'birth day' for a reason.

Last edited by kylef (2009-03-17 14:22:48)

2009-03-17 14:25:14

#3

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5582

The man should start acting like one and take care of the child.
If I ever get a woman pregnant, I'll respect her choice and support her no matter what she decides.

2009-03-17 14:25:21

#4

Flecco: iPod is broken.; +1,048|6662|NT, like Mick Dundee

1st and 3rd arguments.

Equal rights please.

Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.

2009-03-17 14:27:07

#5

Finray: Hup! Dos, Tres, Cuatro; +2,629|5785|Catherine Black

It's our bodies so it's our choice

Well if it's your body and your choice, it's your resonsibility. If I don't want the child, I'm not going to pay for something I don't want.

So either have it aborted, or have it and struggle to keep it alive anyway.

2009-03-17 14:28:45

#6

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5582

Finray wrote:
It's our bodies so it's our choice
Well if it's your body and your choice, it's your resonsibility. If I don't want the child, I'm not going to pay for something I don't want.

So either have it aborted, or have it and struggle to keep it alive anyway.

Now I enjoy death just as much as the next guy but regardless of your relationship with the woman and if you want the child or not, it is still yours. You have to take care of it no matter what.

2009-03-17 14:29:48

#7

Finray: Hup! Dos, Tres, Cuatro; +2,629|5785|Catherine Black

Macbeth wrote:
Finray wrote:
It's our bodies so it's our choice
Well if it's your body and your choice, it's your resonsibility. If I don't want the child, I'm not going to pay for something I don't want.

So either have it aborted, or have it and struggle to keep it alive anyway.
Now I enjoy death just as much as the next guy but regardless of your relationship with the woman and if you want the child or not, it is still yours. You have to take care of it no matter what.

I do agree with you, that's probably what I'd do in that situation anyway, but I'm viewing this from a point of a man who does not want the child to be born. Does he still have to pay for something he doesn't want?

2009-03-17 14:32:22

#8

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5582

Finray wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Finray wrote:

Well if it's your body and your choice, it's your resonsibility. If I don't want the child, I'm not going to pay for something I don't want.

So either have it aborted, or have it and struggle to keep it alive anyway.
Now I enjoy death just as much as the next guy but regardless of your relationship with the woman and if you want the child or not, it is still yours. You have to take care of it no matter what.
I do agree with you, that's probably what I'd do in that situation anyway, but I'm viewing this from a point of a man who does not want the child to be born. Does he still have to pay for something he doesn't want?

He knew the risk well enough when he plunged his dick into her. Sex is great but it comes with risk, you can't say "Wait I didn't want this to happen!" well you full well know it could.

2009-03-17 14:34:41

#9

Finray: Hup! Dos, Tres, Cuatro; +2,629|5785|Catherine Black

Macbeth wrote:
Finray wrote:
Macbeth wrote:

Now I enjoy death just as much as the next guy but regardless of your relationship with the woman and if you want the child or not, it is still yours. You have to take care of it no matter what.
I do agree with you, that's probably what I'd do in that situation anyway, but I'm viewing this from a point of a man who does not want the child to be born. Does he still have to pay for something he doesn't want?
He knew the risk well enough when he plunged his dick into her. Sex is great but it comes with risk, you can't say "Wait I didn't want this to happen!" well you full well know it could.

Good point...

Another quote...

THE POINT HERE IS :

if a man wants abortion, the woman can refuse, and the man will pay money

if a woman wants abortion, she can do it without consent of the man, an no money will be paid by the woman

I hate this society

2009-03-17 14:42:08

#10

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5582

Finray wrote:
Macbeth wrote:
Finray wrote:

I do agree with you, that's probably what I'd do in that situation anyway, but I'm viewing this from a point of a man who does not want the child to be born. Does he still have to pay for something he doesn't want?
He knew the risk well enough when he plunged his dick into her. Sex is great but it comes with risk, you can't say "Wait I didn't want this to happen!" well you full well know it could.
Good point...

Another quote...

THE POINT HERE IS :

if a man wants abortion, the woman can refuse, and the man will pay money

if a woman wants abortion, she can do it without consent of the man, an no money will be paid by the woman

I hate this society

Don't have sex then. It is a privilege and a great way to kill time but it comes with risk and consequences be prepared. Beside that the woman was nice enough to spread her legs to you, you might as well be nice enough to her to support that spawn you created.

2009-03-17 14:42:55

#11

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,973|6629|949

Creating an argument and attributing it to the other side so you can break it down is not very conducive to a debate. I didn't read the argument "my uterus, my choice" in the second quote, yet the third quote seems to revolve around debunking this statement. The assumption that there are droves of couples in which the men want to keep the baby and women want to have an abortion seems to me to have no basis in reality either. Placing seperate culpability on the respective parties (male and female) is equally ridiculous, as if the sole fact that the mother carries the child requires her to be the final say - whether that is the female saying that she has the final word on an abortion or the ridiculous assertion that women "had to make sure they would receive willing and voluntary support from the fathers of their children before having them."

2009-03-17 14:58:55

#12

Finray: Hup! Dos, Tres, Cuatro; +2,629|5785|Catherine Black

Women have children because they feel that they are making their own lives better in some way. Maybe they are less lonely, have someone's unconditional love, etc. , but the point is they have the children as benefits to themselves. Well, who should pay the cost for something which is improving one's life? The obvious and only answer is the decision maker, the woman. A person should receive revenue for only one reason, and that reason is that the money was earned. Period. If a woman does not want to accept responsibility for the consequences of sex, she can have an abortion or have the child and put it up for adoption. If the bitch wants a best buddy for ever, let her pay the bills.

2009-03-17 15:00:38

#13

The#1Spot: Member; +105|6537|byah

A nice punch to the uterus will do the trick. Going to jail for a few years would be better in the long run than paying for child support.

2009-03-17 15:00:40

#14

Flaming_Maniac: prince of insufficient light; +2,490|6704|67.222.138.85

source.

2009-03-17 15:03:01

#15

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5582

Finray wrote:
Women have children because they feel that they are making their own lives better in some way.

Yup woman who accidentally get pregnant, don't want to not kill their potential offspring but they just want to make their lives better.

If a woman does not want to accept responsibility for the consequences of sex,

Reversal man should accept the responsibility and the consequence of his action.

2009-03-17 15:04:03

#16

Finray: Hup! Dos, Tres, Cuatro; +2,629|5785|Catherine Black

Flaming_Maniac wrote:
source.

4chan

@Macbeth, was quoting..

Last edited by Finray (2009-03-17 15:04:31)

2009-03-17 15:06:53

#17

S.Lythberg: Mastermind; +429|6444|Chicago, IL

Absolutely not, if the woman does not want to abort the baby, the man should have to pay for it, not force her to abort it.

responsibility ftw, when you have sex you know full well what might happen.

2009-03-17 15:07:47

#18

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5582

Finray wrote:
Flaming_Maniac wrote:
source.
4chan

@Macbeth, was quoting..

Why the hell would 4chan be worried anyway it's not like 99% of them will ever procreate anyway.

I know you were quoting.

2009-03-17 15:07:48

#19

Morpheus: This shit still going?; +508|5996|The Mitten

kylef wrote:
Firstly, there is no contraception that is proven to be 100% effective.

Neg.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abstinence

EE (hats

2009-03-17 15:07:58

#20

Flaming_Maniac: prince of insufficient light; +2,490|6704|67.222.138.85

Why would you justify a source, one aspect of which was typed in all caps, with a serious answer?

2009-03-17 15:09:30

#21

Macbeth: Banned; +2,444|5582

Morpheus wrote:
kylef wrote:
Firstly, there is no contraception that is proven to be 100% effective.
Neg.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abstinence

How is that working out for you? Not having any sex?

2009-03-17 15:11:57

#22

Finray: Hup! Dos, Tres, Cuatro; +2,629|5785|Catherine Black

Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Why would you justify a source, one aspect of which was typed in all caps, with a serious answer?

I was just trying to start a discussion to gather views and opinions on the fact.

2009-03-17 15:14:02

#23

KEN-JENNINGS: I am all that is MOD!; +2,973|6629|949

Finray wrote:
Women have children because they feel that they are making their own lives better in some way. Maybe they are less lonely, have someone's unconditional love, etc. , but the point is they have the children as benefits to themselves. Well, who should pay the cost for something which is improving one's life? The obvious and only answer is the decision maker, the woman. A person should receive revenue for only one reason, and that reason is that the money was earned. Period. If a woman does not want to accept responsibility for the consequences of sex, she can have an abortion or have the child and put it up for adoption. If the bitch wants a best buddy for ever, let her pay the bills.

Written by a ten year-old whose balls haven't dropped.

2009-03-17 15:33:51

#24

Kmar: Truth is my Bitch; +5,695|6598|132 and Bush

Finray please rewrite the OP without using replies from an already existing topic on another forum. Thank you.

Xbone Stormsurgezz

BF2S Forums Abortion and Welfare Payment

Finray wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Finray wrote:

Finray wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Finray wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Finray wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Finray wrote:

Macbeth wrote:

Finray wrote:

Finray wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Finray wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

kylef wrote:

Morpheus wrote:

kylef wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Finray wrote:

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