Ah, ad hominem attacks, way to debate there.[TUF]Catbox wrote:
No offense but you really have no clue... you do know the world is round right? and there is no Easter bunny...lol
Do you really think that one day someone will cry out... oh shit... we have no more money...
pay attention next year in 10th grade
and learn as much as you can... reading is good also... lol
Again, I agree.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Okay stupid metaphor is getting stupid haha. I'm pretty sure you know I have a response.
There are distinct problems in the system, but the answers to those problems aren't relevant until we're in good shape again. Solutions of saving money, institutions only taking acceptable amounts of risk, etc. It doesn't change how we have to deal with it at this point.
In the short term we need to get money flowing again.
But we can't do that by borrowing (as I've said, a) there's no-one to borrow from and b) more debt will just make the long-term problem worse).
So what do you suggest we do?
I didn't say it was. In fact that's exactly the point I was making - money is an abstract concept that represents concrete resources - you can alter how much resource you get for a given denomination, but that doesn't create either money or the resource it represents.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
And money is not a resource dude. It is an arbitrary representation of resources. There can be as "much" or as "little" as someone chooses to define it as.
a) there is always someone to borrow money from, even if it's ChinaScorpion0x17 wrote:
But we can't do that by borrowing (as I've said, a) there's no-one to borrow from and b) more debt will just make the long-term problem worse).
So what do you suggest we do?
b) Yeah, it will.
I don't pretend to be an expert. I am a high school kid taking a college entry level economics course. If I was in charge, I would be finding people that I intuitively know to be competent, and then pitting them against each other.
What I think I would like to see is an increase in government spending for public works projects, decrease DoD R&D, apologetically increase taxes on the rich and large corporations, lower taxes on the lower tiers, privatize health care and lower minimum wage.
This is what you have been saying - some of the time. Then you say the reserve can make money, and I'm not sure where you stand.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
I didn't say it was. In fact that's exactly the point I was making - money is an abstract concept that represents concrete resources - you can alter how much resource you get for a given denomination, but that doesn't create either money or the resource it represents.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
And money is not a resource dude. It is an arbitrary representation of resources. There can be as "much" or as "little" as someone chooses to define it as.
Unfortunately, China's economy is being hit by the global downturn too.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
a) there is always someone to borrow money from, even if it's ChinaScorpion0x17 wrote:
But we can't do that by borrowing (as I've said, a) there's no-one to borrow from and b) more debt will just make the long-term problem worse).
So what do you suggest we do?
There really is no-one to borrow from.
I'm no expert either, but I like your ideas - pretty similar to what I would do, apart from the health care and minimum wage bits - your health care system and minimum wage are crap enough as they are already - making them worse won't help.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
b) Yeah, it will.
I don't pretend to be an expert. I am a high school kid taking a college entry level economics course. If I was in charge, I would be finding people that I intuitively know to be competent, and then pitting them against each other.
What I think I would like to see is an increase in government spending for public works projects, decrease DoD R&D, apologetically increase taxes on the rich and large corporations, lower taxes on the lower tiers, privatize health care and lower minimum wage.
Sorry, I started of by using 'creating money' in the way that most people understand the idea - literally creating money - and was trying to explain that you can not just create money - it then became apparent that you weren't 'most people' - I think we agree on this point though - money can not be created, only re-valued.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
This is what you have been saying - some of the time. Then you say the reserve can make money, and I'm not sure where you stand.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
I didn't say it was. In fact that's exactly the point I was making - money is an abstract concept that represents concrete resources - you can alter how much resource you get for a given denomination, but that doesn't create either money or the resource it represents.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
And money is not a resource dude. It is an arbitrary representation of resources. There can be as "much" or as "little" as someone chooses to define it as.
I don't think China can really be underestimated...Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Unfortunately, China's economy is being hit by the global downturn too.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
a) there is always someone to borrow money from, even if it's ChinaScorpion0x17 wrote:
But we can't do that by borrowing (as I've said, a) there's no-one to borrow from and b) more debt will just make the long-term problem worse).
So what do you suggest we do?
There really is no-one to borrow from.
In any case, it can always be achieved through inflation. No coming up with that kind of cash in that manner is not a good idea, but you can find it somewhere.
If we were starting from scratch I would get rid of them altogether. The only reason they have to stay at this point is because the tree of our society has grown around the nasty hatchet of government interference.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
I'm no expert either, but I like your ideas - pretty similar to what I would do, apart from the health care and minimum wage bits - your health care system and minimum wage are crap enough as they are already - making them worse won't help.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
b) Yeah, it will.
I don't pretend to be an expert. I am a high school kid taking a college entry level economics course. If I was in charge, I would be finding people that I intuitively know to be competent, and then pitting them against each other.
What I think I would like to see is an increase in government spending for public works projects, decrease DoD R&D, apologetically increase taxes on the rich and large corporations, lower taxes on the lower tiers, privatize health care and lower minimum wage.
You dont know what you are talking about... hard to debate that...Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Ah, ad hominem attacks, way to debate there.[TUF]Catbox wrote:
No offense but you really have no clue... you do know the world is round right? and there is no Easter bunny...lol
Do you really think that one day someone will cry out... oh shit... we have no more money...
pay attention next year in 10th grade
and learn as much as you can... reading is good also... lol
EDIT: I just read that you are an adult... makes it kind of worse actually...lol
Last edited by [TUF]Catbox (2009-03-15 21:18:50)
Love is the answer
I think we're gonna have to agree to disagree on the specifics - neither of us are experts - not that, from what I can tell, the 'experts' all agree on what to do either.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
...stuff...
I just hope you're right about China.
India's another possibility - I've not heard anything about how they're economy is fairing, maybe they're doing ok.
I would not look towards India for a sandwich. I'm not even sure they're considered a modern country.
I do indeed say meh. But I'm no kid (being 35).[TUF]Catbox wrote:
You dont know what you are talking about... hard to debate that...Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Ah, ad hominem attacks, way to debate there.[TUF]Catbox wrote:
No offense but you really have no clue... you do know the world is round right? and there is no Easter bunny...lol
Do you really think that one day someone will cry out... oh shit... we have no more money...
pay attention next year in 10th grade
and learn as much as you can... reading is good also... lol
or meh as you kids say...
And if you need to resort to ad-hominem attacks it shows you had no argument to make in the first place - it's no wonder that you're struggling to debate.
They seem to do a roaring trade in support-lines.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
I would not look towards India for a sandwich. I'm not even sure they're considered a modern country.
(but, I admit, I was clutching at straws a little (struggling to think of a major economy that hasn't been affected by the credit crunch))
Debate then.[TUF]Catbox wrote:
You dont know what you are talking about... hard to debate that...Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Ah, ad hominem attacks, way to debate there.[TUF]Catbox wrote:
No offense but you really have no clue... you do know the world is round right? and there is no Easter bunny...lol
Do you really think that one day someone will cry out... oh shit... we have no more money...
pay attention next year in 10th grade
and learn as much as you can... reading is good also... lol
EDIT: I just read that you are an adult... makes it kind of worse actually...lol
Or shut up.
Your choice.
no struggle... i explained my position about small businesses making the economy prosper and how lowering taxes on them helps themScorpion0x17 wrote:
I do indeed say meh. But I'm no kid (being 35).[TUF]Catbox wrote:
You dont know what you are talking about... hard to debate that...Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Ah, ad hominem attacks, way to debate there.
or meh as you kids say...
And if you need to resort to ad-hominem attacks it shows you had no argument to make in the first place - it's no wonder that you're struggling to debate.
and you say that small businesses dont create any money for people... only the fed does... lol
What is your solution to the money running out? in your theory... and maybe a website also said?
This is where you shine... tell us all why the money is running out and what we simpler folks need to know for the future...?
You're not as sharp as you think... no offense...
Last edited by [TUF]Catbox (2009-03-15 21:25:20)
Love is the answer
say something that isn't stupid and i will debate you all day....Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Debate then.[TUF]Catbox wrote:
You dont know what you are talking about... hard to debate that...Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Ah, ad hominem attacks, way to debate there.
EDIT: I just read that you are an adult... makes it kind of worse actually...lol
Or shut up.
Your choice.
How do you debate someone so ignorant that they think that money is going to run out...?
Enjoy your govt handouts... or do you work and make money?
Love is the answer
You can not create money, full stop.[TUF]Catbox wrote:
no struggle... i explained my position about small businesses making the economy prosper and how lowering taxes on them helps themScorpion0x17 wrote:
I do indeed say meh. But I'm no kid (being 35).[TUF]Catbox wrote:
You dont know what you are talking about... hard to debate that...
or meh as you kids say...
And if you need to resort to ad-hominem attacks it shows you had no argument to make in the first place - it's no wonder that you're struggling to debate.
and you say that small businesses dont create any money for people... only the fed does... lol
What is your solution to the money running out? in your theory... and maybe a website also said?
This is where you shine... tell us all why the money is running out and what we simpler folks need to know for the future...?
You're not as sharp as you think... no offense...
This is basic economics.
The fed can revalue money, which makes it seem, from the point of view of joe public, like it's creating (or destroying) money, but it's not really.
Small business are at the heart of the economy, yes. And they will be vital in the recovery of the economy, yes. But they don't create money.
It's that simple.
Can we at least keep this respectful?
I can and will.Flaming_Maniac wrote:
Can we at least keep this respectful?
I'm done... lol... I did learn that businesses dont create income(money) for people tonight and that we are running out of money... (obvious sarcasm for the slower folks)
Last edited by [TUF]Catbox (2009-03-15 22:01:12)
Love is the answer
Then you're two steps closer to understanding economics.[TUF]Catbox wrote:
I'm done... lol... I did learn that businesses dont create income(money) for people tonight and that we are running out of money...
Glad to have been of service.