imortal
Member
+240|6968|Austin, TX

Poseidon wrote:

imortal wrote:

You know, if you subsituted "white" for north, and "black" for south, you could use the exact same arguments almost word for word, but you would have 50 people calling to ban you, you know?
lol, we've got plenty of black people here. Hell, my town alone is diverse as hell. Whites are only barely the majority.

Mostly because of the University.

http://www.sunysb.edu/

(which also is one of the best medical schools in the country. )
You either missed or ignored the insinuation, I see.   The matter was not one of claiming that your perceptions and prejudcides are racially motivated.  I was trying to show you (since racial bias still seems so evident here in the US) that there is more than one form of prejudice, and that your initial claims are based on a different form of prejudice, but no less wrong for it.  There is a lot of mainstream stereotyping about people from the south.  Usually, we try to just ignore it, or laugh about it.  But then it breeds people who honestly believe that they are inherently better, simply based on where you were raised.

You want to wade into the education argument, you are welcome to it.  Unfortunately, there is a lot more to it than the smiplistic manner you try to paint it in.  In the north, there is a much higher population density than in the south.  This has a lot to due with the fact that, historically, the industries of the north were mining and manufacturing, requiring a lot of manpower, but not much land.  In the south, the industries were farming and cattle, which require a lot of land, but not nearly as many people.   So, the areas of the north developed very fine cities, as well as the ammenities that went along with it, while, here in the south, a less hectic approach was just fine.  One or two good schools were sufficient for the poplulation, while you needed many times that in the north.

In the modern era, lots of things have changed.  People are less fixed geographically.  They can move around.  There is less call for the tradtional areas of the south, cattle and agriculture.  This leaves expansion into other areas, which is happening.  Up north, it is more business as usual.  Universities up north are better, by and large, through name only.  The name of a university that has been there for a long time, and who draws in good professors and good students mainly through name and reputation alone (after all, all the best people come from Havard in the movies, right?), that may or may not have any basis in real life.  Universities have much less history in the south, since the re-shuffling of industry has a lot of schools with a more limited history. 

Oh, time out for a joke.  Do you know what you call a person who graduates last in their class at medical school?  Doctor.

On that, I have decided I am through with you.  You want to feel superior to people in the south?  Fine.  Congratulations.  We are nicer, at least.  Enjoy your winters and having all of those schools you will never go to.  I will finish nursing school down here and work down here, making slightly less income, but living in an area with a much lower cost of living, and enjoy the lower population densities.
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6840|Long Island, New York
Haha, wow. I'm not even going to bother with that. Long posts =/= winner of the argument or intellectually superior.

I made a simple little statement and you got your panties in a knot. The North is still academically better than the South. You might not want to admit it, but that's fine. You probably also believe in Creationism.
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7010|67.222.138.85
oh my god irony irony irony
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6840|Long Island, New York
Yes, we know, FM. Your seat on the high horse has risen so far, you can't even see the ground anymore. No need to prove so any further.
Reciprocity
Member
+721|6883|the dank(super) side of Oregon
The northeast and southeast are equally unbearable in different ways. 





the west is the best.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6708|North Carolina

imortal wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

imortal wrote:

You know, if you subsituted "white" for north, and "black" for south, you could use the exact same arguments almost word for word, but you would have 50 people calling to ban you, you know?
lol, we've got plenty of black people here. Hell, my town alone is diverse as hell. Whites are only barely the majority.

Mostly because of the University.

http://www.sunysb.edu/

(which also is one of the best medical schools in the country. )
You either missed or ignored the insinuation, I see.   The matter was not one of claiming that your perceptions and prejudcides are racially motivated.  I was trying to show you (since racial bias still seems so evident here in the US) that there is more than one form of prejudice, and that your initial claims are based on a different form of prejudice, but no less wrong for it.  There is a lot of mainstream stereotyping about people from the south.  Usually, we try to just ignore it, or laugh about it.  But then it breeds people who honestly believe that they are inherently better, simply based on where you were raised.

You want to wade into the education argument, you are welcome to it.  Unfortunately, there is a lot more to it than the smiplistic manner you try to paint it in.  In the north, there is a much higher population density than in the south.  This has a lot to due with the fact that, historically, the industries of the north were mining and manufacturing, requiring a lot of manpower, but not much land.  In the south, the industries were farming and cattle, which require a lot of land, but not nearly as many people.   So, the areas of the north developed very fine cities, as well as the ammenities that went along with it, while, here in the south, a less hectic approach was just fine.  One or two good schools were sufficient for the poplulation, while you needed many times that in the north.

In the modern era, lots of things have changed.  People are less fixed geographically.  They can move around.  There is less call for the tradtional areas of the south, cattle and agriculture.  This leaves expansion into other areas, which is happening.  Up north, it is more business as usual.  Universities up north are better, by and large, through name only.  The name of a university that has been there for a long time, and who draws in good professors and good students mainly through name and reputation alone (after all, all the best people come from Havard in the movies, right?), that may or may not have any basis in real life.  Universities have much less history in the south, since the re-shuffling of industry has a lot of schools with a more limited history. 

Oh, time out for a joke.  Do you know what you call a person who graduates last in their class at medical school?  Doctor.

On that, I have decided I am through with you.  You want to feel superior to people in the south?  Fine.  Congratulations.  We are nicer, at least.  Enjoy your winters and having all of those schools you will never go to.  I will finish nursing school down here and work down here, making slightly less income, but living in an area with a much lower cost of living, and enjoy the lower population densities.
Great points concerning the history of the South and North.

In addition to this, there are other factors involved.

Every year, the federal government gives out a certain amount of money to colleges as grants.  Even though they are private, Ivy League schools receive a lot of this funding -- like Harvard.  These schools don't really need the money because of their wealthy clientele and ever-rising tuition, so they keep this money more often than they use it.  It builds interest and allows for more reinvestment in infrastructure in the long run, which again, attracts more students and more professors of high quality.

So, if anything, part of the success of the Ivy League schools up North involves a classist redistribution of tax money to schools that don't even really need it.
rdx-fx
...
+955|6894
Imortal, Austin Texas isn't exactly a small town deep-south kinda place either.
  As I recall, there's more than a few people there, at least one large college, and 6th street on the weekends.

Given a choice, I'll take southern hospitality over northern rudeness, and Texas over New York.
But, really, I'll take Montana & Alaska over any of the above.  Hospitality, politeness, and it's not miserably hot.

(Edit: yeah, nothing close to your point, but...)

Last edited by rdx-fx (2009-03-14 13:33:18)

Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6708|North Carolina
I'll take Colorado... 
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|7010|67.222.138.85
going to have to agree with Turq here
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6840|Long Island, New York

rdx-fx wrote:

Imortal, Austin Texas isn't exactly a small town deep-south kinda place either.
  As I recall, there's more than a few people there, at least one large college, and 6th street on the weekends.

Given a choice, I'll take southern hospitality over northern rudeness, and Texas over New York.
But, really, I'll take Montana & Alaska over any of the above.  Hospitality, politeness, and it's not miserably hot.
That's another thing I'll give to the south. People are much nicer to you. On my road trip from LI to Florida and back in december, I can definitely tell you that there's a major mood shift as you go down south.

And I'll agree with Montana, but Alaska? I dunno...
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6904|132 and Bush

Poseidon wrote:

Cut off the south and see those scores rise dramatically.
.. Does that include Houston and Cape Canaveral?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6708|North Carolina

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

going to have to agree with Turq here
Thanks...  I hope to move there someday.

Thanks also to Poseidon for the thing about Southern hospitality.  Although, if you ever do come down to NC again, just make sure you avoid Durham and Fayetteville.
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6803|so randum
The same is probably true for most anywhere in the world, but still WHAT THE FUCK
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6840|Long Island, New York

Kmarion wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

Cut off the south and see those scores rise dramatically.
.. Does that include Houston and Cape Canaveral?
Florida's not so bad. I was referring to states like Alabama and Mississippi mostly.

Although from what my 2nd cousins and grandparents tell me, Florida's public schools aren't exactly shining spectacles of intelligence.

Turquoise wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

going to have to agree with Turq here
Thanks...  I hope to move there someday.

Thanks also to Poseidon for the thing about Southern hospitality.  Although, if you ever do come down to NC again, just make sure you avoid Durham and Fayetteville.
I think I was in Fayetteville...but there was a Shoney's in NC we stopped at on the way back (23 hour drive in one go FTMFL) which really showcased the hospitality of the South.

Last edited by Poseidon (2009-03-14 13:38:33)

Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6904|132 and Bush

Poseidon wrote:

rdx-fx wrote:

Imortal, Austin Texas isn't exactly a small town deep-south kinda place either.
  As I recall, there's more than a few people there, at least one large college, and 6th street on the weekends.

Given a choice, I'll take southern hospitality over northern rudeness, and Texas over New York.
But, really, I'll take Montana & Alaska over any of the above.  Hospitality, politeness, and it's not miserably hot.
That's another thing I'll give to the south. People are much nicer to you. On my road trip from LI to Florida and back in december, I can definitely tell you that there's a major mood shift as you go down south.

And I'll agree with Montana, but Alaska? I dunno...
Alaskans are very nice. At least in my experience.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Hurricane2k9
Pendulous Sweaty Balls
+1,538|6005|College Park, MD
The south is way more hospitable than the north, it's where the whole 'southern hospitality' thing comes from. And Southern food is great.
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/36793/marylandsig.jpg
PureFodder
Member
+225|6588
To be honest, I'm not really sure that the UK general populace would do any better on that test.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6904|132 and Bush

Poseidon wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

Cut off the south and see those scores rise dramatically.
.. Does that include Houston and Cape Canaveral?
Florida's not so bad. I was referring to states like Alabama and Mississippi mostly.

Although from what my 2nd cousins and grandparents tell me, Florida's public schools aren't exactly shining spectacles of intelligence.
I know had to though. Florida is sort of a melting pot. Most of us do not speak with a draw.

The schools system used to suck ass. I guess about the time I was in it..lol. It has turned around nicely though http://www.psk12.com/rating/USindexphp/STATE_FL.html .

Mississippi isn't bad.. try Kentucky though .
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6840|Long Island, New York

Kmarion wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

Kmarion wrote:


.. Does that include Houston and Cape Canaveral?
Florida's not so bad. I was referring to states like Alabama and Mississippi mostly.

Although from what my 2nd cousins and grandparents tell me, Florida's public schools aren't exactly shining spectacles of intelligence.
I know had to though. Florida is sort of a melting pot. Most of us do not speak with a draw.

The schools system used to suck ass. I guess about the time I was in it..lol. It has turned around nicely though http://www.psk12.com/rating/USindexphp/STATE_FL.html .

Mississippi isn't bad.. try Kentucky though .
Yeah...my 2nd cousins who I mentioned went to a private school. My uncle (twice removed? who the fuck knows) refused to put them in a public school because of the bad shape they were in at the time of enrollment (1997, since they're a year older than myself).

And the school in my grandparent's town looks like it's straight outta Compton. Coconut Creek High School.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6904|132 and Bush

Poseidon wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

Florida's not so bad. I was referring to states like Alabama and Mississippi mostly.

Although from what my 2nd cousins and grandparents tell me, Florida's public schools aren't exactly shining spectacles of intelligence.
I know had to though. Florida is sort of a melting pot. Most of us do not speak with a draw.

The schools system used to suck ass. I guess about the time I was in it..lol. It has turned around nicely though http://www.psk12.com/rating/USindexphp/STATE_FL.html .

Mississippi isn't bad.. try Kentucky though .
Yeah...my 2nd cousins who I mentioned went to a private school. My uncle (twice removed? who the fuck knows) refused to put them in a public school because of the bad shape they were in at the time of enrollment (1997, since they're a year older than myself).

And the school in my grandparent's town looks like it's straight outta Compton. Coconut Creek High School.
I don't know how much I buy into the scoring thing. Tbh there are very good public schools here, and there are some really bad ones. There are good teachers, and there are bad teachers.

It's not a lack of capacity to learn. I have seen some people explain some really complicated (albeit mundane) things. But no, they probably couldn't name all of the 50 states.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
rdx-fx
...
+955|6894

Poseidon wrote:

Haha, wow. I'm not even going to bother with that. Long posts =/= winner of the argument or intellectually superior.

I made a simple little statement and you got your panties in a knot. The North is still academically better than the South. You might not want to admit it, but that's fine. You probably also believe in Creationism.
Northeast you mean.

Please do not include the Pacific Northwest in with New York.
Alaska, Oregon, and Washington state are mostly nice places. 

Only American city I dislike more than Chicago, is New York.
People are aloof, rude, impolite, unmannered, uncaring, loud, ignorant, and generally unpleasant... and they're crammed together like sardines... and they think they're the hottest thing since Paris.

I would rather spend months in the middle east wearing an American uniform, rather than weeks in New York at all.
Even with the American flag on my shoulder, Atheist on my dogtags, and "jewish" on my last-name tape.
At least in Asscrackistan, you can call in an airstrike if the locals get too far out of line.  Not so lucky in New York...

Last edited by rdx-fx (2009-03-14 13:53:01)

Poseidon
Fudgepack DeQueef
+3,253|6840|Long Island, New York

rdx-fx wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

Haha, wow. I'm not even going to bother with that. Long posts =/= winner of the argument or intellectually superior.

I made a simple little statement and you got your panties in a knot. The North is still academically better than the South. You might not want to admit it, but that's fine. You probably also believe in Creationism.
Northeast you mean.

Please do not include the Pacific Northwest in with New York.
Alaska, Oregon, and Washington state are mostly nice places. 

Only American city I dislike more than Chicago, is New York.
People are aloof, rude, impolite, unmannered, uncaring, loud, ignorant, and generally unpleasant... and they're crammed together like sardines... and they think they're the hottest thing since Paris.

I would rather spend months in the middle east wearing an American uniform, rather than weeks in New York at all.
Even with the American flag on my shoulder, Atheist on my dogtags, and "jewish" on my last-name tape.
Yeah, that's NYC for you. But I love it. There's a good chance I might be going to college there (Pace for a year, transfer into NYU hopefully). I love the city life. I know people are snobby and ignorant, but that doesn't detract from the bigger picture of what it is.

You just have to get used to it. I've been to the city probably around 40-50 times now.
Doctor Strangelove
Real Battlefield Veterinarian.
+1,758|6771

Turquoise wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

jesus christ it's like you want to start a civil war
We had one of those. We beat your ass.

Although General Lee was eh pretty cool guy.
You did win, but only after losing about twice as many people as we did.

Still, you're right.  In general, the Northeast does have better school systems than the South.  States in the Northeast do typically have a lot more money than the Southern states as well, which is probably part of why those systems are better.
Also the NE has higher taxes, and a larger percentage of those higher taxes are given to the schools.
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|6987|United States of America
You do not speak ill of Chi-town.

Honestly, stop all this bickering. It's turning into a "bloody northerners" thread. We should all stop right now and agree that the Midwest is best.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6708|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

Poseidon wrote:

Kmarion wrote:


I know had to though. Florida is sort of a melting pot. Most of us do not speak with a draw.

The schools system used to suck ass. I guess about the time I was in it..lol. It has turned around nicely though http://www.psk12.com/rating/USindexphp/STATE_FL.html .

Mississippi isn't bad.. try Kentucky though .
Yeah...my 2nd cousins who I mentioned went to a private school. My uncle (twice removed? who the fuck knows) refused to put them in a public school because of the bad shape they were in at the time of enrollment (1997, since they're a year older than myself).

And the school in my grandparent's town looks like it's straight outta Compton. Coconut Creek High School.
I don't know how much I buy into the scoring thing. Tbh there are very good public schools here, and there are some really bad ones. There are good teachers, and there are bad teachers.

It's not a lack of capacity to learn. I have seen some people explain some really complicated (albeit mundane) things. But no, they probably couldn't name all of the 50 states.
From what I've read, Florida shares much of the same problem that NC and Georgia do -- poverty.  Some areas of Florida are very poor, and as a result, have bad schools that desperately need funding.

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