Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6873|Canberra, AUS
This is obscene. Well done to the doctor, fuck you Catholic church.

BRASILIA, Brazil (CNN)  -- A doctor excommunicated by the Catholic Church for performing an abortion on a 9-year-old rape victim received a standing ovation during a national convention on women's health, according to a local media report.
Archbishop Don Jose Cardoso Sobrinho excommunicated the doctors who performed the child's abortion.

The response came during the opening ceremony of an event hosted by Brazilian Minister of Health Jose Gomes Temporao.

The newspaper O Povo reported that Temporao called on the audience to acknowledge the "brilliant" work done by a medical team in the abortion, performed in Brazil's northeastern city of Recife.

The girl was pregnant with twins after being raped, allegedly by her stepfather, police were quoted in media reports as saying. The abuse had gone on since the girl was 6, authorities said.

The abortion was performed March 4 during the fourth month of pregnancy, according to media reports

Archbishop Don Jose Cardoso Sobrinho of Recife excommunicated the doctor, the child's mother and the medical team involved in the procedure.

However, the stepfather was not excommunicated, with Sobrinho telling Globo TV that, "A graver act than (rape) is abortion, to eliminate an innocent life."

The child was not excommunicated, Sobrinho said, because Catholic Church law says minors are exempt from excommunication.

"The church is benevolent when it comes to minors," he told Globo TV. "As for the adults, especially those who approved it, performed this abortion, the excommunication is applicable."

"God's law is above human laws," Sobrinho said.

The case has outraged the Brazilian public and fueled a controversy reaching the highest levels of church and state in a nation whose law bans abortion except in cases of rape.

Temporao recently said doctors must put law before religion.

"The question posed is very simple. There is a Brazilian law which states that a pregnancy can be interrupted in case of rape," Temporao said.

"It is legitimate for the church to have its dogmas, but these dogmas must not be imposed on society as a whole," he added.

Earlier, a verbal spat ensued between President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva and the archbishop over the church's decision.

"As a Christian and a Catholic, I find it deeply lamentable that a bishop of the Catholic Church has such a conservative attitude," Lula said on Globo TV.

"In this case, the medical profession was more right than the church," he said.

Meanwhile, a Vatican cleric told Italy's La Stampa newspaper that he supports the Brazilian archbishop's decision to excommunicate all involved in the abortion except for the child.

Dr. Olimpio Moraes, one of the doctors involved in the procedure, said he thanked the archbishop for his excommunication because the controversy sheds light on Brazil's restrictive abortion laws. He said women in Brazil's countryside are victimized by Brazil's ban on abortion.

Some of the doctors vowed to continue attending church services, despite being expelled.

"The fact that I was excommunicated will not keep me from going to Mass, praying, conversing with God, and asking him to illuminate me and my colleagues in our medical team to help us take care of people in similar cases," one doctor said.

TV Globo reported that the child, who is from a town outside Recife, has stayed in the city to recover and to escape media coverage. Her current condition is not known.

A new report by Brazil's IPAS, a non-governmental organization that works with the health ministry, indicates that more than 1 million women undergo illegal abortions in Brazil each year. About 250,000 are treated by doctors for traumas due to botched abortions, said Beatriz Jalli, an IPAS official.

Studies at a Brazilian hospital dedicated to treating female victims of violence, the Perola Byington in Sao Paulo, indicated that more than 40 percent of the cases involved children.

"This is why the Recife case is so important for women in Brazil," Jalli said.

Jalli said the liberated "Girl from Ipanema" image that many foreigners have of Brazilian women is far from reality.

"We live in a male chauvinistic, patriarchal society with a very high rate of sexual crimes against women and minors," she said. "Our reproductive rights are constantly criminalized."

Last edited by Spark (2009-03-11 04:32:44)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
belldawg
Serial Jay-Walker
+52|6182|Perth, indian ocean
GG catholic church
RavyGravy
Son.
+617|6604|NSW, Australia

wow, excommunication these catholics don't fuck around
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7009|Nårvei

Religion - A gathering point for stupid people the last 2000 years ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|6883|United States of America

RavyGravy wrote:

wow, excommunication these catholics don't fuck around
Well it is Brazil. They're pretty hardcore over there.

Varegg wrote:

Religion - A gathering point for stupid people the last 2000 years ...
I take offense to that

Last edited by DesertFox- (2009-03-11 04:42:50)

Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|7009|Nårvei

DesertFox- wrote:

RavyGravy wrote:

wow, excommunication these catholics don't fuck around
Well it is Brazil. They're pretty hardcore over there.

Varegg wrote:

Religion - A gathering point for stupid people the last 2000 years ...
I take offense to that
Because you are stupid or because you go to church? ... I didn't say all religious people are stupid ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6864|NT, like Mick Dundee

Guys come on, this is the Catholic Church. What did you expect? They were going to condemn something that they've been doing for hundreds of years?
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6728|Global Command
Priests raping boys gets a pass though.

Idiots.
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|6870|UK

DesertFox- wrote:

RavyGravy wrote:

wow, excommunication these catholics don't fuck around
Well it is Brazil. They're pretty hardcore over there.

Varegg wrote:

Religion - A gathering point for stupid people the last 2000 years ...
I take offense to that
Why? I don't.

List the top 50 dumbest events ever taken place in history and i bet most of them would have been done in the name of religion. It only takes a nutjob with a good mouth to get things rolling.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|6870|UK

ATG wrote:

Priests raping boys gets a pass though.

Idiots.
Not to mention turning a blind eye to the ovens....
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6864|NT, like Mick Dundee

m3th, Desert Fox is christian I believe.
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|6870|UK

Flecco wrote:

m3th, Desert Fox is christian I believe.
Christian. Jew, Muslim, Jedi whatever, religion has been used by the crazies as a vehicle for mass murder ever since jesus whent for a ride on his dinosaur.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6864|NT, like Mick Dundee

'I put no stock in religion. By the word religion I have seen the lunacy of fanatics of every denomination be called the will of God. I've seen too much religion in the eyes of murderers.'

That sum it up?
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|6935|Salt Lake City

It doesn't surprise me.  Brazil has more Catholics per capita than any country in the world.
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6741|Texas - Bigger than France
Okay, I'm not Catholic, and don't know anything...

...but I think the reason why abortion is worse in this situation has to do with baptism.  The child is baptized when born and can then go to heaven.  An abortion is done = no baptism = hell.  The rapist theoretically can be forgiven and is baptized?

Or some shit like that.
Diesel_dyk
Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears
+178|6193|Truthistan
nine year old rape. yuck.
"God's law is above human laws," ?????? Excommunication for those who help a child.... is that really God's law?? pedophile priests, inquisitions, holocaust deniers, crusades, North American holocaust of Native Americans, secret weddings between nuns and priests, the gay priests, no woman can be a priest, witch trials etc etc. And its these people who are excommunicated? I think if JC were around he would bitch slap the pope and this bishop.


I dunno... I think we really need to start taxing these groups.
Why should they get a free ride on our backs when they are so busy meddling in the public's affairs and pushing their agendas

I say freedom of religion does not mean freedom from taxation. Believe what you want but if you want a say in the political life of the country then you have to pay your taxes first, otherwise stfu.

Tax their A$$ (besides we need the money for another bailout anyway)
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6741|Texas - Bigger than France

Diesel_dyk wrote:

Tax their A$$ (besides we need the money for another bailout anyway)
Agree, but the the fallout of this is church contributions would no longer be deductible...which is why it would never pass.
El Beardo
steel woolly mammoth
+150|5919|Gulf Coast

The only person who could really make a honest statement like that would have to be an aborted rape victim no?

Last edited by El Beardo (2009-03-11 14:22:04)

Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6974|Moscow, Russia

Pug wrote:

...but I think the reason why abortion is worse in this situation has to do with baptism.  The child is baptized when born and can then go to heaven.  An abortion is done = no baptism = hell.
not like i care about all that "baptism" nonsence, but anyway: i've just asked my doctor friend and she told me that those twins the poor girl was pregnant with had ZERO chances of being born alive and thus could NOT be baptised or undergo any such procedure AT ALL. moreso, the girl herself had ZERO chances of surviving without the abortion - actually, if she's still alive after 4-month pregnancy and the abortion at such young age it's already very unlikely that she'll be able to give birth to children when she's actually old enough.
so, those doctors were doing the only thing that was left for them - they were saving girls life and i hope they succeded. if we look at it from moral angle the operation they performed is no different from, say, appendix removal or some such. they didn't end any life - they (hopefully) saved one.

so,

Spark wrote:

fuck you Catholic church.

Last edited by Shahter (2009-03-11 11:12:20)

if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
blademaster
I'm moving to Brazil
+2,075|6844

DesertFox- wrote:

Well it is Brazil. They're pretty hardcore over there.

Varegg wrote:

Religion - A gathering point for stupid people the last 2000 years ...
I take offense to that
me 2
Monkey Spanker
Show it to the nice monkey.
+284|6451|England
Can a christian please give the Book,chapter & verse in the bible it says no abortion pls. If you use the thou shalt not kill line it is BS  as it is ok to kill for the church (the crusades).
Quote of the year so far "Fifa 11 on the other hand... shiny things for mongos "-mtb0minime
https://bf3s.com/sigs/f30415b2d1cff840176cce816dc76d89a7929bb0.png
blademaster
I'm moving to Brazil
+2,075|6844

smuder201 wrote:

Can a christian please give the Book,chapter & verse in the bible it says no abortion pls. If you use the thou shalt not kill line it is BS  as it is ok to kill for the church (the crusades).
its not just Christianity that is against abortion its other religions 2

Judaism has a supreme concern for the sanctity of human life.

According to the Mishnah (Sanhedrin 4:5):

    Whoever destroys one life is as if he destroyed a whole world, and whoever preserves a life is as if he preserved the whole world.

Apart from an overall regard for the sanctity of life, Judaism finds other reasons to ban abortion:

    * killing a foetus breaks God's command to populate the world
    * killing a foetus destroys something made in God's image
    * killing a foetus is wanton destruction of part of God's creation
    * killing a foetus destroys something that could become a being
    * killing a foetus is an unjustifiable act of wounding
    * it is wrong to injure oneself


Hindu institutions oppose abortion,and teach that abortion prevents a soul in its karmic progress toward God.[18] According to the British Broadcasting Corporation website, "When considering abortion, the Hindu way is to choose the action that will do least harm to all involved: the mother and father, the foetus and society. Hinduism is therefore generally opposed to abortion except where it is necessary to save the mother's life.

Christian churches view certain abortion as ok not all abortions are bad not sure how it is with Catholic church. nm found it --> Roman Catholics make no exceptions for cases of rape and incest, arguing that the way conception occurs makes no bearing on the sin of abortion. I disagree with that.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6974|Moscow, Russia

blademaster wrote:

Apart from an overall regard for the sanctity of life, Judaism finds other reasons to ban abortion:

    * killing a foetus breaks God's command to populate the world
    * killing a foetus destroys something made in God's image
    * killing a foetus is wanton destruction of part of God's creation
    * killing a foetus destroys something that could become a being
    * killing a foetus is an unjustifiable act of wounding
    * it is wrong to injure oneself
orly? so, are you saying they should have left poor girl for dead because of the bullshit above, even though in OP's particular case:
   
    * that foetus could not have contributed to populating the earth
    * that foetus couldn't have grown into something resemling "God's image"
    * oh, foetus is a part of the "God's creation", huh? but so is appendix - should removing those be banned too?
    * that foetus could not become a being
    * ah, so it's wrong to injure someone? even if it is nessesary to save one's life?

religion = fail.
kthxsbye
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6741|Texas - Bigger than France

Shahter wrote:

orly? so, are you saying they should have left poor girl for dead
Just a clarification: the Catholic church has charities to help raped mothers carry to term, and then put the kid in an adopted home.
Noobpatty
ʎʇʇɐdqoou
+194|6553|West NY
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