BF2S Forums Islamic banks 'better in crisis'

no we shouldn't... we will be ok with what we have in place...

I checked on some of their rules and ideas...  these don't seem fair to women...?
http://debate.org.uk/topics/coolcalm/women.html

Last edited by [TUF]Catbox (2009-03-02 03:04:52)

Murabaha
An Islamic financing structure, where an intermediary buys a property with free and clear title to it. The intermediary and prospective buyer then agree upon a sale price (including an agreed upon profit for the intermediary) that can be made through a series of installments, or as a lump sum payment.
http://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/murabaha.asp

Burwhale wrote:

Actually I posted something similar a while ago, and I agree, there is a lot we can learn from the Islamic banking model.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=112298

Brisbane times wrote:

While the Western world's financial system has been imploding, this small but rapidly growing share of world capital has weathered the storm.

Sharemarkets in London and New York are a third off their peaks. Dow Jones's Islamic financials index, in contrast, rose 4.75 per cent in the most recent September quarter and lost a modest 7 per cent in the previous year.

What's more, all this growth has come from a model of lending that rejects interest payments and shuns speculation and heavy borrowing.

In short, Islamic finance bans some of the excess that has brought the West's financial system to its knees, and is looking wise indeed, or at least lucky.

Islamic finance takes its guidance from sharia.

Understandably, Western governments are casting around for ideas on how to run a more robust financial system. But what could they possibly learn from such a different approach?

Islamic finance's more prudent rules on debt look attractive in hindsight. But more fundamentally, proponents say it provides a better way to link the financial system to the "real" economy.

Because Islamic banks keep ownership of the asset until the loan is repaid, they have a greater incentive to make sure borrowers do not bite off more than they can chew. The bank shares in the risks of the entrepreneur but also its failures, the argument goes.

Even if we dont exactly copy thier system, we are crazy not to have a good look at it.

Tuf Catbox wrote:

no we shouldn't... we will be ok with what we have in place...

Dude , as much as I think you are awesome, I think you are letting your dislike/hatred of all things Islam cloud your judgement. The fact is Western banks are in an absolute shambles. They have pretty much caused the shit that we are in now. Although you are right about discriminatory attitudes towards women, that aspect doesnt have to be part of the banking model.

question, what does Islam do to losers that do not pay their bills, and then insist on blaming the banks for giving them the loan? The defense being, " the bank shoulda known I was a piece of shit, it ain't my fault" Is it a stoning for the first late month or is it a beheading straight out of the gate?

lowing wrote:

Burwhale wrote:

Actually I posted something similar a while ago, and I agree, there is a lot we can learn from the Islamic banking model.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=112298

Brisbane times wrote:

While the Western world's financial system has been imploding, this small but rapidly growing share of world capital has weathered the storm.

Sharemarkets in London and New York are a third off their peaks. Dow Jones's Islamic financials index, in contrast, rose 4.75 per cent in the most recent September quarter and lost a modest 7 per cent in the previous year.

What's more, all this growth has come from a model of lending that rejects interest payments and shuns speculation and heavy borrowing.

In short, Islamic finance bans some of the excess that has brought the West's financial system to its knees, and is looking wise indeed, or at least lucky.

Islamic finance takes its guidance from sharia.

Understandably, Western governments are casting around for ideas on how to run a more robust financial system. But what could they possibly learn from such a different approach?

Islamic finance's more prudent rules on debt look attractive in hindsight. But more fundamentally, proponents say it provides a better way to link the financial system to the "real" economy.

Because Islamic banks keep ownership of the asset until the loan is repaid, they have a greater incentive to make sure borrowers do not bite off more than they can chew. The bank shares in the risks of the entrepreneur but also its failures, the argument goes.

Even if we dont exactly copy thier system, we are crazy not to have a good look at it.

Tuf Catbox wrote:

no we shouldn't... we will be ok with what we have in place...

Dude , as much as I think you are awesome, I think you are letting your dislike/hatred of all things Islam cloud your judgement. The fact is Western banks are in an absolute shambles. They have pretty much caused the shit that we are in now. Although you are right about discriminatory attitudes towards women, that aspect doesnt have to be part of the banking model.

question, what does Islam do to losers that do not pay their bills, and then insist on blaming the banks for giving them the loan? The defense being, " the bank shoulda known I was a piece of shit, it ain't my fault" Is it a stoning for the first late month or is it a beheading straight out of the gate?

We are talking about a model of banking not similar to ours, we are not talking about religion ... refer to the content not the package, there is a reason why their banks holds up better than the western model ...

Yes, we should.

Greed and excess is why the banks are zombies.

Just because islam has serious issues does not mean there are not little snipets we could adopt that make better sense than our own system.

lowing wrote:

ATG wrote:

Yes, we should.

Greed and excess is why the banks are zombies.

Just because islam has serious issues does not mean there are not little snipets we could adopt that make better sense than our own system.

Sorry, we didn't have a problem until democrats decided a home was a right and not something work for and earned.

If you still believe that I'd say that's the biggest problem in the US today ...

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

no we shouldn't... we will be ok with what we have in place...

I checked on some of their rules and ideas...  these don't seem fair to women...?
http://debate.org.uk/topics/coolcalm/women.html

Why are you people talking about the other stupid Muslim laws? People are just pointing out that, that the few sets of laws they have in terms of banking/finance could help out the west and that their banks aren't as hard hit because of them. Dunno why people are talking about stoning/treatment of women etc.. cos that ain't got shit to do with anything, the article was merely pointing out that they seem to have a decent system for banking.

Sometimes I just don't get people, they just post shit for the sake of it because they're too dumb to make a proper opinion on the actual matters at hand

Burwhale wrote:

Actually I posted something similar a while ago, and I agree, there is a lot we can learn from the Islamic banking model.
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=112298

Brisbane times wrote:

While the Western world's financial system has been imploding, this small but rapidly growing share of world capital has weathered the storm.

Sharemarkets in London and New York are a third off their peaks. Dow Jones's Islamic financials index, in contrast, rose 4.75 per cent in the most recent September quarter and lost a modest 7 per cent in the previous year.

What's more, all this growth has come from a model of lending that rejects interest payments and shuns speculation and heavy borrowing.

In short, Islamic finance bans some of the excess that has brought the West's financial system to its knees, and is looking wise indeed, or at least lucky.

Islamic finance takes its guidance from sharia.

Understandably, Western governments are casting around for ideas on how to run a more robust financial system. But what could they possibly learn from such a different approach?

Islamic finance's more prudent rules on debt look attractive in hindsight. But more fundamentally, proponents say it provides a better way to link the financial system to the "real" economy.

Because Islamic banks keep ownership of the asset until the loan is repaid, they have a greater incentive to make sure borrowers do not bite off more than they can chew. The bank shares in the risks of the entrepreneur but also its failures, the argument goes.

Even if we dont exactly copy thier system, we are crazy not to have a good look at it.

Tuf Catbox wrote:

no we shouldn't... we will be ok with what we have in place...

Dude , as much as I think you are awesome, I think you are letting your dislike/hatred of all things Islam cloud your judgement. The fact is Western banks are in an absolute shambles. They have pretty much caused the shit that we are in now. Although you are right about discriminatory attitudes towards women, that aspect doesnt have to be part of the banking model.

Hey Burwhale... I understand what you are saying... I am flexible for good ideas to help get all our countries back on track...
We screwed up when we lent money to people that couldn't afford to pay it back... we had some pretty reckless spending over the past 8 years...
When Bush and McCain and a few others tried to put up red flags in 2005... nobody listened... So when these people who had little or no money invested in their houses... couldn't pay for their houses... they walked... I know a couple of people who did this personally...
Our economic principle of captalism is the best system in the world... in fact... the good ideas from the islamic financial guide are similar to ours...
We need to get back to these principals and we will be fine... and we will...  BO is trying his best but i believe he is wrong... You can't spend your way out of a recession... it has been tried... I lived through Jimmy Carter and it sucked...lol

We need to bring back accountability and get rid of entitlement... Wealthy people don't owe anything to anyone... If you want to be wealthy... go to school... start a business and work 7 days a week until you drop... and then go back to work... or you can work a normal job...make a decent wage and have free time to go fishing or just relax.... that is what is great about it...  If you decide to do nothing... you can't really expect to have everything you need taken care of... We do have programs in place to help people that are down on their luck here... The thing that bugs me is watching a woman who didn't speak english use food stamps here... then exit the store and get into a fullsize SUV...with expensive rims and drive away...
I dont have a bug SUV... I work hard and have a paid off Camry... and i am not expecting anything from wealthy people... Someday I hope to join the comfortably wealthy... and i always want to have that option...

lowing wrote:

Sorry, we didn't have a problem until democrats decided a home was a right and not something work for and earned.

+1 karma for being so stupid yet being capable of operating a keyboard.  Americans are too party oriented, most of you fail to look at the policies. I think both major American parties are crap so consider me impartial. But if you for one moment think that this fuck up started since Obama took office your crazy. Bet you weren’t bitching about the Bush bailouts.  Bailouts will fail regardless of party. Do try to bear in mind that all these bad loans were made under someone else’s watch. I’ll let you figure it out.

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:

If you still believe that I'd say that's the biggest problem in the US today ...

No, the biggest problem in the US today are people like you, full of entitlement, that do not believe it.

No, the biggest problem is people/companies/corporations out to make a buck at any price.  It doesn't matter who they destroy, as long as they can amass a fortune.

Don't look now, companies are in business for no other reason than to turn a profit. Ironic how you accuse the companies of trying to make a buck at any price, in a society where citizens will sue at the drop of a hat to do the same thing.
The problem is we all ask the evil companies for jobs, not many of us ask the poor for them. Yet you sall scream greed about companies, yet say nothing about the greed of people that will try and take down an entire company, its employees and their families through a law suit.

I give you the recent hudson river crash in which no one was hardly hurt let alone killed as my evidence.

If their is greed, it is that of the American consumer.

Last edited by lowing (2009-03-02 17:20:31)

lowing wrote:

Don't look now, companies are in business for no other reason than to turn a profit. Ironic how you accuse the companies of trying to make a buck at any price, in a society where citizens will sue at the drop of a hat to do the same thing.
The problem is we all ask the evil companies for jobs, not many of us ask the poor for them. Yet you sall scream greed about companies, yet say nothing about the greed of people that will try and take down an entire company, its employees and their families through a law suit.

I give you the recent hudson river crash in which no one was hardly hurt let alone killed as my evidence.

If their is greed, it is that of the American consumer.

Its the companies who make money from money who are the problem. They don't exist in Islamic Banking, its un-Islamic.

So let me get this right.
You are defending the companies who over borrowed, speculated, grew too quickly chasing profit and failed. Yet when an individual does exactly the same you call them irresponsible.
And btw, its the "companies" of lawyers chasing profit at any cost who will be the instigators behind suing over the Hudson river.
Consumerism breeds greed all across the spectrum. From the individual to the multinationals which are just groups of individuals chasing profit.

Last edited by JahManRed (2009-03-03 01:54:19)

JahManRed wrote:

lowing wrote:

Don't look now, companies are in business for no other reason than to turn a profit. Ironic how you accuse the companies of trying to make a buck at any price, in a society where citizens will sue at the drop of a hat to do the same thing.
The problem is we all ask the evil companies for jobs, not many of us ask the poor for them. Yet you sall scream greed about companies, yet say nothing about the greed of people that will try and take down an entire company, its employees and their families through a law suit.

I give you the recent hudson river crash in which no one was hardly hurt let alone killed as my evidence.

If their is greed, it is that of the American consumer.

Its the companies who make money from money who are the problem. They don't exist in Islamic Banking, its un-Islamic.

So let me get this right.
You are defending the companies who over borrowed, speculated, grew too quickly chasing profit and failed. Yet when an individual does exactly the same you call them irresponsible.
And btw, its the "companies" of lawyers chasing profit at any cost who will be the instigators behind suing over the Hudson river.
Consumerism breeds greed all across the spectrum. From the individual to the multinationals which are just groups of individuals chasing profit.

Nope, I would think since you know I have posted consistently that I am against ANY govt. bailouts for ANY companies, that you would recognize that I hold companies equally as irresponsible for their actions as I do consumers for theirs. SO you are wrong in this accusation.


Lawyers seeking blood money pretty much goes without saying. It is the consumer that unleashes them is what I am talking about. Now please disagree with what I said regarding this and greed