BF2S Forums The 2% Illusion... Take everything they earn, and it still won't be

No business is going to expand and hire new staff if there is no demand for their product. You have to start at the consumer and get them spending money.

What I don't understand is why all the rich people vote for these 'liberal bastards' so they can take all their hard earned money and the poor vote against them.

source

The best thing about a socialised health system is it is not run for profit. The cost should more or less be the same but because there is no 'profit' needed to be a viable business the consumer no longer needs to pay the extra premiums.

Last edited by DrunkFace (2009-02-26 08:33:23)

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

lowing wrote:

AussieReaper wrote:

And your proposal therefore is to...?

Tax cuts fo rthe producers and company builders. Let those that earn the money spend it. This will put people people back to work, and give incentives for investors to start investing again.

Robbing the producer and investors and give it to those that do not will not do anything except remove the incentive to produce and invest. Or do you think we all will work for the fun of it, instead of for reward?

Wrong.  Reagan tried trickle down economics and it didn't trickle down.

Really? Under Reagan the US was at its height in power, economy and pride. Not sure how you equate that to failure.

ATG wrote:

Oh it trickled all right.

The fraud, the deregulation, the corruption, the rape and the debts.

Any business person I know has had to cut cut cut. The cunts in the banking industry plunder their companies and cry to politicians who then give them trillions.

This is just so wrong on so many levels.

I know going forward how things are done. I will be using every possible loophole, trick and accounting gimick to maximize money going in my pocket. I shall be buying as much online from out of state companies to avoid california sales tax. I shall only carry the bare minimum insurances and I shall do as much business as possible by cash or barter.

What the fuck, any confidence I may have had in our system is gone. It's every man for himself.

Not sure what ya mean, it sounds like you did quite well in the past, how does your future look under Obama and the entitlement generation?

m3thod wrote:

he collapsed under your darling bush

Or was it the failed attempt by the democrats to make home ownership in America a right, regardless if you have earned one or could afford one?


Bush is not to blame for this

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

lowing wrote:

m3thod wrote:

he collapsed under your darling bush

Or was it the failed attempt by the democrats to make home ownership in America a right, regardless if you have earned one or could afford one?


Bush is not to blame for this

Many of the banks that entered the sub-prime market were not required to do so.  They simply saw the money that could be made by originating the loans, and in many cases selling them off in instruments so complex that only those who created them could understand them.  There was also the fraud by the banks when they pushed some buyers into sub-prime loans, even when they qualified for traditional loans, because of the money to made.

You can say it all you want, and it still won't make it true, but not all of the failing mortgages were at the hands of the borrower; at least those that were attempting to actually buy a home to live in.  That doesn't take into account all the failing mortgages from speculators and flippers trying to cash in on a market that was careening out of control.

all based on legislation adopted pushed, and threatened by the democrats. go figure.

How to cut the deficit in half:

1)Combine the budget deficit of the country with the money being spent in Iraq.

2)Stop/cut war cost drastically.

3)Take credit for it all.

4)????

5)Profit

cpt.fass1 wrote:

lowing wrote:

m3thod wrote:

he collapsed under your darling bush

Or was it the failed attempt by the democrats to make home ownership in America a right, regardless if you have earned one or could afford one?


Bush is not to blame for this

When has Home owner ship ever been a right? It's something you had to qualify for and get loans.. The government needs to have the homes owned in order to receive tax income to pay for social services(roads, schools, mass transit, etc..) when homes are vacant those services are underfunded and can't exist..

P.S. it wasn't a mistake because the housing market collapse happened for a million different reason. If you thought it was bad because of peoples failure to maintain a payment they couldn't afford it got way worse when property taxes double and homes where reasseseeddd.

Again the Main Problem with our economy right now is there is the balance is out of wack the 5% have way to much of the money while everyone else can't make a live able wage..

Gotta love it when people think it is a right to own a home not a privilege. I also like it when someone making $20k a year thinks they can afford a $500k house and their DTI is over 80%.

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

lowing wrote:

m3thod wrote:

he collapsed under your darling bush

Or was it the failed attempt by the democrats to make home ownership in America a right, regardless if you have earned one or could afford one?


Bush is not to blame for this

Many of the banks that entered the sub-prime market were not required to do so.  They simply saw the money that could be made by originating the loans, and in many cases selling them off in instruments so complex that only those who created them could understand them.  There was also the fraud by the banks when they pushed some buyers into sub-prime loans, even when they qualified for traditional loans, because of the money to made.

You can say it all you want, and it still won't make it true, but not all of the failing mortgages were at the hands of the borrower; at least those that were attempting to actually buy a home to live in.  That doesn't take into account all the failing mortgages from speculators and flippers trying to cash in on a market that was careening out of control.

This is old news tbh but still some egoists refuse to believe it, why analyze and improve a situation when you can just blame the people behind it rather than those cut throat brokers and financial institutions that bleeded the system for all it was worth with fat bonus salaries ...

@lowing: Greed is what made this crisis and still fuels it, short time profits and "I don't give a shit" mentality is the factors you can blame ... where is the neighbourly love now when millions have lost their work and even more will ... you say cut the taxes for those 5% of the population that actually have made money off this crisis and ain't giving none of it back ... I applaud your wisdom on economic issues ...

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Again the Main Problem with our economy right now is there is the balance is out of wack the 5% have way to much of the money while everyone else can't make a live able wage..

Problems;

1) Too many people have an inflated sense of entitlement, combined with an undersized work ethic.  (go ahead, ask an out-of-work office worker if he'd consider working construction, manual labor, or as a waiter in a restauraunt.. watch the look of absolute horror at such a suggestion).

2) It's not that everyone "can't make a livable wage", it's that the majority of people are wholly incapable of living within their means.  They eat out at restauraunts too much, they buy electronics and toys they don't really need, they live in overpriced McMansions they can't really afford, they drive cars that are above their responsible means, etc..

3) People live on credit, not on income - and they don't save nearly enough for 'rainy days'.

4) The corporate system is broken. Companies should be about the employees, the owners, and the customer - anything else is a cancer. Making a company legally obligated to seek shareholder profit above any other concern is institutionalized insanity.

5) The stock market system is broken.  The system has turned into a Frankenstein monster, completely opposite to it's original intent.  It WAS an investment vehicle to allow everyone to share the risk and reward of a companys endeavors.  Currently, it is NOW little more than a cancerous leech - artificially inflating prices through speculation, funneling most of the nations wealth into the hands of a few Wall Street firms, and manufacturing fake bubble-wealth that evaporates in the light of day.

6) Misplaced "equal opportunity" and overly PC bullshit.  If you want to help the poor, STOP being so sensitive to the color of people's skin.  College scholarships and small business loans to deserving individuals, regardless of race.  No more long term UK-style "on the dole" welfare programs.  Hand up, not hand out.

7) Less disposable, more durable.  A car should last indefinitely, if well maintained. NOT designed obsolescence where you throw away the used up piece of tin trash as soon as the 4 year loan is paid off.  Same-same for most items in a household: Furniture, dishes, silverware, books, clothes, boots, etc.  Clothes that are trash after 10-20 washings - is NOT right.

8) Too many useless paper-pushers.  Too many people in too many airconditioned offices doing nothing more than busywork.  Too many middle managers of middle managers.  Too many people writing summaries of reports of memos of technical advisories.  Too many TPS reports, not enough strychnine in the guacamole.

It's kind of hard to take the advice of a publication seriously on the cost of bailouts and how it relates to taxing wealthy people when said publication is connected to a sector of the economy that just accepted close to a trillion dollars in tax money.

You know what the real problem here is?  Our money is shit.

Fiat currency is dying, because, slowly but surely, all that stuff that Ron Paul and several others have said about it is coming true.  As long as our currency has no real connection to a commodity (other than maybe oil), the government can just print however much it feels like and throw it around to make things look better than they really are.

We created a shitload of money for the bailouts, and now, Obama is trying to tax a lot of the same people who received this money more.

While the article is true in its assessment that the top 2% can't pay for all this, I don't exactly sympathize with the elite rich either.  The elite running the Federal Reserve are a large part of this problem to begin with.

Our economy isn't a capitalism.  It's corporatism.

Pretty soon, we're gonna learn the hard way that a truly free market is the only way to go.  Until we learn that, it's just going to continue being a very large shell game with money based on nothing more than rhetoric.

PureFodder wrote:

FEOS wrote:

PureFodder wrote:

The massive savings from removing the private health insurance burden will lead to higher wages and higher profits, hence both employees and investors will be earning more money.

No, it won't. No, they won't.

Yes, it will. Yes, they will.

Nope. And nope.

The employers still pay the insurance premiums. That's the part you keep missing. They just pay the govt instead of private companies.

And until there is tort reform, the cost of medical care will not drop...no matter what socialist scheme The Obama comes up with.

FEOS wrote:

And until there is tort reform, the cost of medical care will not drop...no matter what socialist scheme The Obama comes up with.

Ugh ok really Britain is socialist? Canada is Socialist? France is socialist? Those are major european nations that do just fine with universal health care. 

cpt.fass1 wrote:

but then the terrorist will win.. We can't have that at any cost.. If I have to cut off my own arms so that way someone else can't do it, at least I have the satisfaction that I did it myself..

And who created those terrorists in the first place?  We did by going in there we agitated the inhabitants and caused them to become ripe for terrorist organisations to come in and turn them into suicide bombers and militants.  I say once we're pulled out, hopefully soon, then...
Clear!
Your good to go!