The US is in its death throws of being a superpower thank god.
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Well the global economic downturn is killing a lot more than just the superpowers. If they get out of it sooner than the rest the might is right back up there again.
I wonder though who the next big power is going to be. I'd say China, but it would be based on population alone, and that isn't an attribute I find will make it as world leader sustainable anyway.
A super coalition of Europe maybe?
I wonder though who the next big power is going to be. I'd say China, but it would be based on population alone, and that isn't an attribute I find will make it as world leader sustainable anyway.
A super coalition of Europe maybe?
lowing wrote:
Yeah right. Does the phrase those who live in glass houses...............ring a bell?PureFodder wrote:
All dirty laundry should be aired. Trying to put friends back on the right path is what friends are for.lowing wrote:
Well with "friends" like those that want to air another "friends" dirty laundry for no other reason than to trash your "friend", you don't need enemies.
PureFodder wrote:
All dirty laundry should be aired.
Who cares. Everybody already knows our government waterboarded people anyway. Show the damn tape.
Its not the British government that bought up the issue, it was the lawyers of Miliband. I am sure the British government would have been more then happy to keep this under wraps. But seeing as the issue did come to light, its just seems stupid that the US doesn't change it attitude.lowing wrote:
Well with "friends" like those that want to air another "friends" dirty laundry for no other reason than to trash your "friend", you don't need enemies.mafia996630 wrote:
Hatred for the US ? not at all. Don't get me wrong, i do hate bush.Parker wrote:
what do US citizens have to do with this?
i mean, beyond your apparent hatred for anything that has to do with the US, of course.
And it has everything to do with US citizens, if they actually stood up for what they are suppose to stand for, their governments would not go around black mailing so called "friends" .
Also the US fuked up in respects to torture/guantanamo, and considering they still hold they "Miliband" they deserve to get screwed.
Really what evidence do you want? Alls you do is insult America, there's your evidence. Why did you tell me to Stfu? Can't handle a bit of truth? I'm not even American and I can smell your hate from a mile off, tool.mafia996630 wrote:
If you make a claim and then are too lazy/unwilling to back it up with evidence, your claim is invalid. It would be advisory for you to stfu and stop saying shit that ant true like someone else earlier.andy12 wrote:
Oh the old "Prove it" retort, mmm, I doubt anyone is gonna look through all your posts to find proof which you will then dismiss as "a joke", "sarcasm" or the other old gems. It's pretty clear you hate the US and Israel, especially since you went with that Bush crap people go with. "I hate bush not the people". Yeah Bush isn't in power anymore...mafia996630 wrote:
Prove i hate the US parker ? i dare ya.
Also when did i say its the citizens fault ? Like I said before, US citizens should be ashamed, to put it in lamer terms, they should ashamed of their government.
fyi, if i did hate the US, you'll be the first one to know!
Also i know bush is not in power anymore but i still hate the wank. And read article properly next time;Miliband's lawyers said the threat had existed for some time and was still in place under President Barack Obama's administration.
There is nothing that is going to end US-UK intel cooperation any time soon. There are too many ties that are far more important than the Gitmo issue.
And Obama can put an end to that posturing any time he wants.
Oh, and there's this from the OP's article:
And Obama can put an end to that posturing any time he wants.
Oh, and there's this from the OP's article:
He added: "There has been no threat from the United States to quote-unquote break off intelligence cooperation."
Last edited by FEOS (2009-02-05 05:44:16)
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
You call that evidence ? lulz. Considering you have nothing to back up your claims, you do need to stfu. If you had actual evidence showing my apparent hatred for America, then ill be more the happy to listen you.andy12 wrote:
Really what evidence do you want? Alls you do is insult America, there's your evidence. Why did you tell me to Stfu? Can't handle a bit of truth? I'm not even American and I can smell your hate from a mile off, tool.mafia996630 wrote:
If you make a claim and then are too lazy/unwilling to back it up with evidence, your claim is invalid. It would be advisory for you to stfu and stop saying shit that ant true like someone else earlier.andy12 wrote:
Oh the old "Prove it" retort, mmm, I doubt anyone is gonna look through all your posts to find proof which you will then dismiss as "a joke", "sarcasm" or the other old gems. It's pretty clear you hate the US and Israel, especially since you went with that Bush crap people go with. "I hate bush not the people". Yeah Bush isn't in power anymore...
Also i know bush is not in power anymore but i still hate the wank. And read article properly next time;Miliband's lawyers said the threat had existed for some time and was still in place under President Barack Obama's administration.
Dude, don't get fooled, that my fart you can smell from a mile off.
Latest:
"David Miliband to make statement on Binyam Mohamed 'torture cover up'"
ahh dude,penis cuts! that's fuked.
"David Miliband to make statement on Binyam Mohamed 'torture cover up'"
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/b … 666484.eceHe is also likely to be quizzed on how far MI6 agents were complicit in the alleged torture. Mr Mohamed claims that British spies interviewed him during the time he alleges he was having his chest and penis cut with a scalpel and stinging liquid poured into the wounds, and that they passed on detailed personal information about him to his torturers.
ahh dude,penis cuts! that's fuked.
All hail China and its glorious regime of 'not-done-anything-really-really-bad-or-wrong'!BN wrote:
The US is in its death throws of being a superpower thank god.
Really it's pretty clear and everyone can see it. I don't need to search through your posts for the exact words "I hate America". I don't give a shit, quit being a pussy and admit it or STFU and don't use every thread to insult Americans, got it?mafia996630 wrote:
You call that evidence ? lulz. Considering you have nothing to back up your claims, you do need to stfu. If you had actual evidence showing my apparent hatred for America, then ill be more the happy to listen you.andy12 wrote:
Really what evidence do you want? Alls you do is insult America, there's your evidence. Why did you tell me to Stfu? Can't handle a bit of truth? I'm not even American and I can smell your hate from a mile off, tool.mafia996630 wrote:
If you make a claim and then are too lazy/unwilling to back it up with evidence, your claim is invalid. It would be advisory for you to stfu and stop saying shit that ant true like someone else earlier.andy12 wrote:
Oh the old "Prove it" retort, mmm, I doubt anyone is gonna look through all your posts to find proof which you will then dismiss as "a joke", "sarcasm" or the other old gems. It's pretty clear you hate the US and Israel, especially since you went with that Bush crap people go with. "I hate bush not the people". Yeah Bush isn't in power anymore...
Also i know bush is not in power anymore but i still hate the wank. And read article properly next time;
Dude, don't get fooled, that my fart you can smell from a mile off.
errr.....no i don't "got it". If its so fuking clear, then it can't be that hard to prove it ? and no, am not asking for those exact words.andy12 wrote:
Really it's pretty clear and everyone can see it. I don't need to search through your posts for the exact words "I hate America". I don't give a shit, quit being a pussy and admit it or STFU and don't use every thread to insult Americans, got it?mafia996630 wrote:
You call that evidence ? lulz. Considering you have nothing to back up your claims, you do need to stfu. If you had actual evidence showing my apparent hatred for America, then ill be more the happy to listen you.andy12 wrote:
Really what evidence do you want? Alls you do is insult America, there's your evidence. Why did you tell me to Stfu? Can't handle a bit of truth? I'm not even American and I can smell your hate from a mile off, tool.
Dude, don't get fooled, that my fart you can smell from a mile off.
You do give a shit, come on now, don't lie to yourself. Insult Americans ? Just because I criticize some of the US governments actions doesn't mean I am insulting Americans. And if you think it does, then you need to leave the D&S Talk section because that what everyone does all day (criticize others).
Also this is a realllllly WILDDDDD guess, but are you from isreal by any chance?
[hide]He's gone say no[/hide]
Uh, you just blamed the American people for what's happening, as if they get a say in everything their Government does... Maybe you should leave the section if you can't admit what you even believe in...mafia996630 wrote:
errr.....no i don't "got it". If its so fuking clear, then it can't be that hard to prove it ? and no, am not asking for those exact words.andy12 wrote:
Really it's pretty clear and everyone can see it. I don't need to search through your posts for the exact words "I hate America". I don't give a shit, quit being a pussy and admit it or STFU and don't use every thread to insult Americans, got it?mafia996630 wrote:
You call that evidence ? lulz. Considering you have nothing to back up your claims, you do need to stfu. If you had actual evidence showing my apparent hatred for America, then ill be more the happy to listen you.
Dude, don't get fooled, that my fart you can smell from a mile off.
You do give a shit, come on now, don't lie to yourself. Insult Americans ? Just because I criticize some of the US governments actions doesn't mean I am insulting Americans. And if you think it does, then you need to leave the D&S Talk section because that what everyone does all day (criticize others).
Also this is a realllllly WILDDDDD guess, but are you from isreal by any chance?
[hide]He's gone say no[/hide]
No I'm not from Israel, why are you?
well don't worry, I am sure Nobama with his "change we can believe in", will substitute torture, with asking terrorists to the White House, for a formal dinner and ask over coffee if they plan on attacking the US again, and if so when and where. The terrorists will tell him all he wants to know, and then he can make appropriate preparations. Simple as that. If only Bush woulda done this we could have avoided all of this unpleasantness.
We all know you think America is the great satan. stfu.mafia996630 wrote:
errr.....no i don't "got it". If its so fuking clear, then it can't be that hard to prove it ? and no, am not asking for those exact words.andy12 wrote:
Really it's pretty clear and everyone can see it. I don't need to search through your posts for the exact words "I hate America". I don't give a shit, quit being a pussy and admit it or STFU and don't use every thread to insult Americans, got it?mafia996630 wrote:
You call that evidence ? lulz. Considering you have nothing to back up your claims, you do need to stfu. If you had actual evidence showing my apparent hatred for America, then ill be more the happy to listen you.
Dude, don't get fooled, that my fart you can smell from a mile off.
You do give a shit, come on now, don't lie to yourself. Insult Americans ? Just because I criticize some of the US governments actions doesn't mean I am insulting Americans. And if you think it does, then you need to leave the D&S Talk section because that what everyone does all day (criticize others).
Also this is a realllllly WILDDDDD guess, but are you from isreal by any chance?
[hide]He's gone say no[/hide]
It's those kinds of comments is about what he was complaining about and you go and prove him right, gg. I don't see why he's still getting yelled at even when he's trying to explain himself and he's not sounding like a "great satan" yelling lunatic but some people seem convinced he is. I think some people are just fucking delusional and also have a case of paranoia.Cybargs wrote:
We all know you think America is the great satan. stfu.mafia996630 wrote:
errr.....no i don't "got it". If its so fuking clear, then it can't be that hard to prove it ? and no, am not asking for those exact words.andy12 wrote:
Really it's pretty clear and everyone can see it. I don't need to search through your posts for the exact words "I hate America". I don't give a shit, quit being a pussy and admit it or STFU and don't use every thread to insult Americans, got it?
You do give a shit, come on now, don't lie to yourself. Insult Americans ? Just because I criticize some of the US governments actions doesn't mean I am insulting Americans. And if you think it does, then you need to leave the D&S Talk section because that what everyone does all day (criticize others).
Also this is a realllllly WILDDDDD guess, but are you from isreal by any chance?
[hide]He's gone say no[/hide]
The guy has to defend himself about his views on the US. Americans and others are yelling at him telling him he hates America/freedom/whatever but he is trying to say he doesn't. If he did, he would probably just go ahead and say it, I mean why the fuck would he care?
Last edited by Mekstizzle (2009-02-05 09:08:24)
lol, if only those that you disagree with, could get the same consideration that you insist for him.Mekstizzle wrote:
It's those kinds of comments is about what he was complaining about and you go and prove him right, gg. I don't see why he's still getting yelled at even when he's trying to explain himself and he's not sounding like a "great satan" yelling lunatic but some people seem convinced he is. I think some people are just fucking delusional and also have a case of paranoia.Cybargs wrote:
We all know you think America is the great satan. stfu.mafia996630 wrote:
errr.....no i don't "got it". If its so fuking clear, then it can't be that hard to prove it ? and no, am not asking for those exact words.
You do give a shit, come on now, don't lie to yourself. Insult Americans ? Just because I criticize some of the US governments actions doesn't mean I am insulting Americans. And if you think it does, then you need to leave the D&S Talk section because that what everyone does all day (criticize others).
Also this is a realllllly WILDDDDD guess, but are you from isreal by any chance?
[hide]He's gone say no[/hide]
The guy has to defend himself about his views on the US. Americans and others are yelling at him telling him he hates America/freedom/whatever but he is trying to say he doesn't. If he did, he would probably just go ahead and say it, I mean why the fuck would he care?
Well to be fair it was everyone else that "pounced" on him, turning this topic into a stupid fest without anyone talking about the actual topic.
I don't even know what most people in this thread think about the US's decision to make these threats etc (which is what the topic is about).. ever since Parker came in with his "what the fuck did you just say about me" hardman complex the thread has taken a turn for the worse
I don't even know what most people in this thread think about the US's decision to make these threats etc (which is what the topic is about).. ever since Parker came in with his "what the fuck did you just say about me" hardman complex the thread has taken a turn for the worse
Last edited by Mekstizzle (2009-02-05 09:17:19)
"Pounced", yeah, I know the feelin'Mekstizzle wrote:
Well to be fair it was everyone else that "pounced" on him, turning this topic into a stupid fest without anyone talking about the actual topic.
I don't even know what most people in this thread think about the US's decision to make these threats etc (which is what the topic is about).. ever since Parker came in with his "what the fuck did you just say about me" hardman complex the thread has taken a turn for the worse
Because torture is no reason at all to speak out?lowing wrote:
Well with "friends" like those that want to air another "friends" dirty laundry for no other reason than to trash your "friend", you don't need enemies.
The fact is the US intelligence services acted reprehensibly, the UK intelligence services were complicit (which whilst not as bad, is still terrible) and the foreign office and US intelligence services have tried to cover it up.
All issues about cover ups aside - this looks like pretty good evidence that Gitmo detainees have been tortured, in a fashion that no sane person can claim is not torture. This sort of behaviour is clearly completely unacceptable.
Torture probably has been used, there are Privates fresh outta Basic that are based there. I think we all know, but we get the best. We get the massive advantage of gaining intel via torture, and we get to deny it and pretend we're morally impeccable. Sweet deal.Bertster7 wrote:
Because torture is no reason at all to speak out?lowing wrote:
Well with "friends" like those that want to air another "friends" dirty laundry for no other reason than to trash your "friend", you don't need enemies.
The fact is the US intelligence services acted reprehensibly, the UK intelligence services were complicit (which whilst not as bad, is still terrible) and the foreign office and US intelligence services have tried to cover it up.
All issues about cover ups aside - this looks like pretty good evidence that Gitmo detainees have been tortured, in a fashion that no sane person can claim is not torture. This sort of behaviour is clearly completely unacceptable.
The claims are not that he was tortured there. He was flown to Morocco and Afghanistan to be tortured. It's not a case of some inexperienced guards/interogators getting carried away. There was planning that went into this.andy12 wrote:
Torture probably has been used, there are Privates fresh outta Basic that are based there. I think we all know, but we get the best. We get the massive advantage of gaining intel via torture, and we get to deny it and pretend we're morally impeccable. Sweet deal.Bertster7 wrote:
Because torture is no reason at all to speak out?lowing wrote:
Well with "friends" like those that want to air another "friends" dirty laundry for no other reason than to trash your "friend", you don't need enemies.
The fact is the US intelligence services acted reprehensibly, the UK intelligence services were complicit (which whilst not as bad, is still terrible) and the foreign office and US intelligence services have tried to cover it up.
All issues about cover ups aside - this looks like pretty good evidence that Gitmo detainees have been tortured, in a fashion that no sane person can claim is not torture. This sort of behaviour is clearly completely unacceptable.
I find the attitude that being able to get away with torturing someone as being a sweet deal fairly abhorent tbh.
Last edited by Bertster7 (2009-02-05 10:30:16)
Intel gained from torture is unreliable.andy12 wrote:
Torture probably has been used, there are Privates fresh outta Basic that are based there. I think we all know, but we get the best. We get the massive advantage of gaining intel via torture, and we get to deny it and pretend we're morally impeccable. Sweet deal.Bertster7 wrote:
Because torture is no reason at all to speak out?lowing wrote:
Well with "friends" like those that want to air another "friends" dirty laundry for no other reason than to trash your "friend", you don't need enemies.
The fact is the US intelligence services acted reprehensibly, the UK intelligence services were complicit (which whilst not as bad, is still terrible) and the foreign office and US intelligence services have tried to cover it up.
All issues about cover ups aside - this looks like pretty good evidence that Gitmo detainees have been tortured, in a fashion that no sane person can claim is not torture. This sort of behaviour is clearly completely unacceptable.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
Sometimes, but unless you're an expert you don't know the ratio of unreliable intel:reliable intel.m3thod wrote:
Intel gained from torture is unreliable.andy12 wrote:
Torture probably has been used, there are Privates fresh outta Basic that are based there. I think we all know, but we get the best. We get the massive advantage of gaining intel via torture, and we get to deny it and pretend we're morally impeccable. Sweet deal.Bertster7 wrote:
Because torture is no reason at all to speak out?
The fact is the US intelligence services acted reprehensibly, the UK intelligence services were complicit (which whilst not as bad, is still terrible) and the foreign office and US intelligence services have tried to cover it up.
All issues about cover ups aside - this looks like pretty good evidence that Gitmo detainees have been tortured, in a fashion that no sane person can claim is not torture. This sort of behaviour is clearly completely unacceptable.
The people that get tortured deserve it. The reason why we haven't won these 2 wars is because we pussy around now. Back when we had an empire if there was a mutiny we strapped the leaders to cannons and blew them up. That generally worked. If insurgents have nothing to fear from gunning down school children other than a few years in prison they don't give a shit. If they know we are willing to fuck them up for it then they'll think twice.Bertster7 wrote:
The claims are not that he was tortured there. He was flown to Morocco and Afghanistan to be tortured. It's not a case of some inexperienced guards/interogators getting carried away. There was planning that went into this.andy12 wrote:
Torture probably has been used, there are Privates fresh outta Basic that are based there. I think we all know, but we get the best. We get the massive advantage of gaining intel via torture, and we get to deny it and pretend we're morally impeccable. Sweet deal.Bertster7 wrote:
Because torture is no reason at all to speak out?
The fact is the US intelligence services acted reprehensibly, the UK intelligence services were complicit (which whilst not as bad, is still terrible) and the foreign office and US intelligence services have tried to cover it up.
All issues about cover ups aside - this looks like pretty good evidence that Gitmo detainees have been tortured, in a fashion that no sane person can claim is not torture. This sort of behaviour is clearly completely unacceptable.
I find the attitude that being able to get away with torturing someone as being a sweet deal fairly abhorent tbh.
Last edited by andy12 (2009-02-05 10:36:03)
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