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2009-01-17 03:54:27
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA

TheAussieReaper wrote:

lowing wrote:

TheAussieReaper wrote:


If you moved into a wealthy hollywood suburb, purchased a mansion after winning the lottery and met the neighbours, do you think they would consider you outside trash "new money" and undeserving to live their? Your just going to bring the propety values down with your non-luxury car sitting in the drive way, your damn kids leaving their bicycles on the lawn for everybody to see, and you coming from a non-famous background. You simply got lucky.

I don't think it gives them the right to tell you where your kids go to school. Where you are allowed to live. Or how you are to segregate yourself from the rest of them. And I don't think you'd enjoy that either.
Do you know what you did not do? You did not deny what I said was true.
I'm trying to work out if you feel segregation of the lower classes should apply to segregation of you from higher classes also.

You've avoided it well though. I'm not going to deny the points you've made until you clarify the above so I have a better mindset of where your coming from.
Well hell, I have no problem admitting what you said is true. You are 100% correct. There is a difference with my point and the one you are making.

I do not feel people shouldn't have the right to better their lives or move out of the slums in search of  better life. What is happening though is when they move they tend to bring the slum with them instead of leave it behind. That is why everyone else flees farther out. It is the reason we have 1.5 hour commutes to work in some cities. YOu have to go that far, if you are going to live away from all that.
2009-01-17 03:58:33
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

I have no idea what we're arguing right now, so back to the OP

DC is a very interesting situation when it comes to schooling. In the DC metro area, there are very good schools. Some of the best in the nation. A lot of these are private (such as the one Obama's kids go to) and some are public (Thomas Jefferson in Alexandria, Churchill and Bethesda-Chevy Chase in Bethesda, Montgomery Blair in Silver Spring). However, all of these schools are either in the wealthier towns outside of DC, or are in the nicer parts of DC.

The schools in inner city DC suck for the most part. The DC public school system for the most part sucks. It's a simple fact of the matter that most of the kids in the poor-performance schools in DC are black. I wouldn't call it segregation though, at least not segregation by law. It's segregation by the fact that I'd rather send my kid to a good school in this area, which tends to have either a diverse or mostly-white student body, than a bad school in this area. Race has nothing to do with it, it just so happens that the shitty schools around here are mostly black.

And for the record, the Obama kids' school is very diverse, both racially and economically. There are plenty of minority students as well as students whose families can't afford the full tuition, but whose kids are smart and have the drive to succeed and thus receive scholarships.
a choice ofschool for Obamas kids is politically scrutinized just like everything else he does. He HAS to send those kids to a school that supposedly represents America.
2009-01-17 04:56:22
IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|7046|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann
I thought it was the high walls that surrounded the school and made it secure that made it the school of choice for Presidents children? because Obama's not the first President to send their children there..
2009-01-17 05:14:57
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA

IG-Calibre wrote:

I thought it was the high walls that surrounded the school and made it secure that made it the school of choice for Presidents children? because Obama's not the first President to send their children there..
yup that as well

so if it is good enough for Obama, I shouldn't feel bad for doing what I can afford to do to make sure my kids are not exposed to inner city school bullshit, as well huh?

Last edited by lowing (2009-01-17 05:21:06)

2009-01-17 06:22:36
Hurricane2k9
Pendulous Sweaty Balls
+1,538|6005|College Park, MD

lowing wrote:

IG-Calibre wrote:

I thought it was the high walls that surrounded the school and made it secure that made it the school of choice for Presidents children? because Obama's not the first President to send their children there..
yup that as well

so if it is good enough for Obama, I shouldn't feel bad for doing what I can afford to do to make sure my kids are not exposed to inner city school bullshit, as well huh?
No, you shouldn't. I don't get why some media are claiming that by sending his kids to private school that he's "turning his back" on middle America or some shit. Seriously, any parent who cares about his kids in DC tries to send them to a school in the nicer parts of town. Why? Because they're simply better. It's not opinion, it's god damned fact. Obama made a good choice in sending his kids to a private school, because compared to the public options in DC, it's far better. I want my kids to receive the best education possible, and I'm pretty sure Obama does as well. Which is why he didn't send his kids to some second-rate school in the DCPS.

And yeah, security was another factor. Their school has taught other First Children, and they've already got lots of security layouts and gridded maps etc. Sorta the John McCain of schools since they've got experience with this >_>

And quite frankly, I'd rather have America represented by scholars and athletes with drive. Kids who want to do something with their lives. Kids who give back to their communities.

Last edited by Hurricane2k9 (2009-01-17 06:24:01)

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/36793/marylandsig.jpg
2009-01-17 23:49:53
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,060|7075|PNW

FatherTed wrote:

Yes, it does.

You are judging what you want for your family based upon a stereotype.
Sadly, the stereotype is supported by statistics. Besides which, the students tend to segregate themselves into their own little race-based groups (the blacks and Hispanics noticeably more pronounced, as any 'obviously white' group would've gotten immediately trounced by tolerance Nazis). As a white kid in public high school, I wanted no part of any of it and joined AFJROTC instead (which ran 300+ members strong and taught the best of most subjects that were otherwise available in a heavily-filtered format in their official classes).

Interestingly, youth racism grew more pronounced the more we were exposed to anti-racism material.

But yeah, I guess I'm the biggest racist there is for pointing this out. I'm going to go sit in a bunker with Hitler now...

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2009-01-18 01:02:00)

2009-01-18 00:16:32
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6457|what

lowing wrote:

Well hell, I have no problem admitting what you said is true. You are 100% correct. There is a difference with my point and the one you are making.

I do not feel people shouldn't have the right to better their lives or move out of the slums in search of  better life. What is happening though is when they move they tend to bring the slum with them instead of leave it behind. That is why everyone else flees farther out. It is the reason we have 1.5 hour commutes to work in some cities. YOu have to go that far, if you are going to live away from all that.
Your going to have the slums follow bad people or bad groups of people, I can't see how that should prevent good students from bad neighbourhoods get scholarships and\or better access to far better schooling if they can show merit.

I see it as not bringing the slums with them, but bringing the good neighbourhood back to their own. They have the ability to better their situation and their families if given a good education and ability to earn more.

The bad neighbourhoods are the ones with poorly funded schools, simply because a lot of that funding ends up in maintenance.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
2009-01-18 02:08:57
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6978|Canberra, AUS
TBH I see no problem with lowing or anyone else choosing what school they choose to send their kids to.

But that train track goes in both directions.

(edit: sigh. two weeks of solid maths have made my english skills so poor 'though' looks like 'to')

Last edited by Spark (2009-01-18 02:09:44)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2009-01-18 04:00:07
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA

TheAussieReaper wrote:

lowing wrote:

Well hell, I have no problem admitting what you said is true. You are 100% correct. There is a difference with my point and the one you are making.

I do not feel people shouldn't have the right to better their lives or move out of the slums in search of  better life. What is happening though is when they move they tend to bring the slum with them instead of leave it behind. That is why everyone else flees farther out. It is the reason we have 1.5 hour commutes to work in some cities. You have to go that far, if you are going to live away from all that.
Your going to have the slums follow bad people or bad groups of people, I can't see how that should prevent good students from bad neighbourhoods get scholarships and\or better access to far better schooling if they can show merit.

I see it as not bringing the slums with them, but bringing the good neighbourhood back to their own. They have the ability to better their situation and their families if given a good education and ability to earn more.

The bad neighbourhoods are the ones with poorly funded schools, simply because a lot of that funding ends up in maintenance.
one word, discrimination. You can not filter, remember, equal opportunity, equality, fairness, etc.....it can not be stopped the way you are suggesting, the ACLU and all of their bullshit will come down on a school that refuses to allow this kid and not that kid. Ya can't win, all you can do is move farther out. You can thank your "entitlement" laden liberals and their PC machine for this.

DO you not agree where minorities move in property values, goes down crime goes up? Regardless if the school is immune, which it never is, who is going to live in that neighborhood that can afford not to?


Besides, how is the inner city genious supposed to get to school every day? is the city supposed to dispatch a bus for a 50 mile drive one way every day to pick up and drop off 1 kid, or 2? Is their parents gunna drive that distance, ya know, drop them off before heading into work?
2009-01-18 04:04:34
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA

Spark wrote:

TBH I see no problem with lowing or anyone else choosing what school they choose to send their kids to.

But that train track goes in both directions.

(edit: sigh. two weeks of solid maths have made my english skills so poor 'though' looks like 'to')
Yer right, and if minorities choose my nieghborhood and school district,  I am gunna have to find a different place to move to, the "diversity" that comes with minorities moving in, will not be a positive change.
2009-01-18 15:52:05
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7070|Cambridge (UK)

lowing wrote:

Spark wrote:

TBH I see no problem with lowing or anyone else choosing what school they choose to send their kids to.

But that train track goes in both directions.

(edit: sigh. two weeks of solid maths have made my english skills so poor 'though' looks like 'to')
Yer right, and if minorities choose my nieghborhood and school district,  I am gunna have to find a different place to move to, the "diversity" that comes with minorities moving in, will not be a positive change.
Now, you see lowing, this is where you start to straying towards concepts that could be called 'racist'.

As I said before, choosing the school you send your kids to based on the performance of the school is OK.

Basing the decision of on the ethnic mix of it's pupils is not.



Why, in your view, would a school having pupils from minority backgrounds be a negative?
2009-01-18 15:56:18
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6457|what

I think his concern is that these kids come from bad neighbourhoods and bring those qualities to the school.

I think it's just stereotypical to think along those lines.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
2009-01-18 15:58:36
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,060|7075|PNW

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

lowing wrote:

Spark wrote:

TBH I see no problem with lowing or anyone else choosing what school they choose to send their kids to.

But that train track goes in both directions.

(edit: sigh. two weeks of solid maths have made my english skills so poor 'though' looks like 'to')
Yer right, and if minorities choose my nieghborhood and school district,  I am gunna have to find a different place to move to, the "diversity" that comes with minorities moving in, will not be a positive change.
Now, you see lowing, this is where you start to straying towards concepts that could be called 'racist'.

As I said before, choosing the school you send your kids to based on the performance of the school is OK.

Basing the decision of on the ethnic mix of it's pupils is not.



Why, in your view, would a school having pupils from minority backgrounds be a negative?
This is where it comes back to statistics. I honestly can't fault parents for wanting to pull their kids out of a situation where they're more likely to get assaulted in an act of racial violence. I wouldn't judge immediately by race, but all it would take me is a tour of a campus to see how the kids compose themselves to decide whether or not I'd want to subject a kid to it.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2009-01-18 16:03:56)

2009-01-18 21:31:20
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

lowing wrote:

Spark wrote:

TBH I see no problem with lowing or anyone else choosing what school they choose to send their kids to.

But that train track goes in both directions.

(edit: sigh. two weeks of solid maths have made my english skills so poor 'though' looks like 'to')
Yer right, and if minorities choose my nieghborhood and school district,  I am gunna have to find a different place to move to, the "diversity" that comes with minorities moving in, will not be a positive change.
Now, you see lowing, this is where you start to straying towards concepts that could be called 'racist'.

As I said before, choosing the school you send your kids to based on the performance of the school is OK.

Basing the decision of on the ethnic mix of it's pupils is not.



Why, in your view, would a school having pupils from minority backgrounds be a negative?
Because as has been pointed out, the reality is, schools with a high concentration of minorites have high drug, violence and gang issues. Like it or not, there is generally a connection even if by coincidence.
2009-01-18 21:34:15
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA

TheAussieReaper wrote:

I think his concern is that these kids come from bad neighbourhoods and bring those qualities to the school.

I think it's just stereotypical to think along those lines.
Not hardly
2009-01-18 21:51:56
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|7020
The reality is anyone of us... would not, knowingly put our child in a school situation where we had concerns that they would be picked on or abused or possibly injured...  It sucks because a good portion of the kids in an inner city or less affluent area go to school and do the best they can...then there is a small to medium minority that doesn't give an F about school or their fellow students feelings or rights... and they pick on the smarter kids and make fun of them for succeeding because they know they can't... They create an environment of intimidation and fear even in the normal inner city students... In a perfect world we could tell the troublemakers to get the heck out of the school and leave the kids alone... but it's not like that in real life...  We all choose to keep ourselves safe and our families especially safe... it's human nature...  If you say otherwise... you are kidding yourself...  It's a great thought that someday all the kids that want to learn and better themselves will have an equal chance... but it's still just a thought unfortunately

Last edited by [TUF]Catbox (2009-01-18 21:53:24)

Love is the answer
2009-01-19 01:33:30
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6978|Canberra, AUS
Ummm... unfourtunately I found that dickheadedness often has little to do with race. That might just be my school though.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2009-01-19 04:16:42
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA

Spark wrote:

Ummm... unfourtunately I found that dickheadedness often has little to do with race. That might just be my school though.
never said anything to the contrary.
2009-01-19 04:34:14
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

The reality is anyone of us... would not, knowingly put our child in a school situation where we had concerns that they would be picked on or abused or possibly injured...  It sucks because a good portion of the kids in an inner city or less affluent area go to school and do the best they can...then there is a small to medium minority that doesn't give an F about school or their fellow students feelings or rights... and they pick on the smarter kids and make fun of them for succeeding because they know they can't... They create an environment of intimidation and fear even in the normal inner city students... In a perfect world we could tell the troublemakers to get the heck out of the school and leave the kids alone... but it's not like that in real life...  We all choose to keep ourselves safe and our families especially safe... it's human nature...  If you say otherwise... you are kidding yourself...  It's a great thought that someday all the kids that want to learn and better themselves will have an equal chance... but it's still just a thought unfortunately
Well, I think it goes deeper that that even, doing a little soul searching I can say with great certainty that I will not expect my kids to go to a black college. Where, I am sure, vioence, gang banging, drug abuse is no worse than at any other college if it exists at all.


Why would I want to be a minority white guy in an all black college, given a choice?  Why wouldn't I want to be a white guy in an all black college?

We tend to want to be comfortable with like minded thought and culture. We want to be with people with simular experiences attitudes and backgrounds so we can make connections in order to be accepted in the norm. Now, the question becomes, is that racist or is it understandable and acceptable?
2009-01-19 05:13:46
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6457|what

lowing wrote:

Spark wrote:

Ummm... unfourtunately I found that dickheadedness often has little to do with race. That might just be my school though.
never said anything to the contrary.
Misleading thread title, mate.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
2009-01-19 06:39:54
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA

TheAussieReaper wrote:

lowing wrote:

Spark wrote:

Ummm... unfourtunately I found that dickheadedness often has little to do with race. That might just be my school though.
never said anything to the contrary.
Misleading thread title, mate.
the sarcasm is apropos based on the attitudes in this forum
2009-01-19 06:58:08
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6457|what

lowing wrote:

the sarcasm is apropos based on the attitudes in this forum
lol
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
2009-01-19 11:15:50
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7070|Cambridge (UK)

lowing wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

lowing wrote:


Yer right, and if minorities choose my nieghborhood and school district,  I am gunna have to find a different place to move to, the "diversity" that comes with minorities moving in, will not be a positive change.
Now, you see lowing, this is where you start to straying towards concepts that could be called 'racist'.

As I said before, choosing the school you send your kids to based on the performance of the school is OK.

Basing the decision of on the ethnic mix of it's pupils is not.



Why, in your view, would a school having pupils from minority backgrounds be a negative?
Because as has been pointed out, the reality is, schools with a high concentration of minorites have high drug, violence and gang issues. Like it or not, there is generally a connection even if by coincidence.
You got some kind of real evidence for that assertion?

Maybe it is true in the states. But it's not like that in the UK. Poverty cuts across ethnicities here.
2009-01-19 21:02:11
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6955|USA

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

lowing wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:


Now, you see lowing, this is where you start to straying towards concepts that could be called 'racist'.

As I said before, choosing the school you send your kids to based on the performance of the school is OK.

Basing the decision of on the ethnic mix of it's pupils is not.



Why, in your view, would a school having pupils from minority backgrounds be a negative?
Because as has been pointed out, the reality is, schools with a high concentration of minorites have high drug, violence and gang issues. Like it or not, there is generally a connection even if by coincidence.
You got some kind of real evidence for that assertion?


Sure, look at the prisons, and the low income, high crime nieghborhoods and take note as to who mostly resides there.

Maybe it is true in the states. But it's not like that in the UK. Poverty cuts across ethnicities here.
2009-01-19 21:06:45
Scorpion0x17
can detect anyone's visible post count...
+691|7070|Cambridge (UK)

lowing wrote:

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

lowing wrote:


Because as has been pointed out, the reality is, schools with a high concentration of minorites have high drug, violence and gang issues. Like it or not, there is generally a connection even if by coincidence.
You got some kind of real evidence for that assertion?
Sure, look at the prisons, and the low income, high crime nieghborhoods and take note as to who mostly resides there.

Scorpion0x17 wrote:

Maybe it is true in the states. But it's not like that in the UK. Poverty cuts across ethnicities here.
1. learn to quote properly.
2. I've highlighted what I believe is the key factor.

 

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