Yeah I read that a few days ago. Interesting, but I didn't have time to look deeper into it.
The Israelis have a long term plan to eliminate the Palestinians from Israel.
Interesting to see a detailed analysis.
"Israel has a long history of deliberately using violence and other provocative measures to trigger reactions in order to create a pretext for military action, and to portray its opponents as the aggressors and Israel as the victim. According to the respected Israeli military historian Zeev Maoz in his recent book, Defending the Holy Land, Israel most notably used this policy of "strategic escalation" in 1955-1956, when it launched deadly raids on Egyptian army positions to provoke Egypt's President Nasser into violent reprisals preceding its ill-fated invasion of Egypt; in 1981-1982, when it launched violent raids on Lebanon in order to provoke Palestinian escalation preceding the Israeli invasion of Lebanon; and between 2001-2004, when Prime Minister Ariel Sharon repeatedly ordered assassinations of high-level Palestinian militants during declared ceasefires, provoking violent attacks that enabled Israel's virtual reoccupation of the West Bank.
Indeed, there was a genuine lull in rocket and mortar fire between June 19 and November 4, due to Hamas compliance and only sporadically violated by a small number of launchings carried out by rival Fatah and Islamic Jihad militants, largely in defiance of Hamas. According to the conservative Israeli-based Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center's analysis of rocket and missile attacks in 2008, there were only three rockets fired at Israel in July, September, and October combined. Israeli civilians living near Gaza experienced an almost unprecedented degree of security during this period, with no Israeli casualties.
Yet despite the major lull, Israel continually raided the West Bank, arresting and frequently killing "wanted" Palestinians from June to October, which had the inevitable effect of ratcheting up pressure on Hamas to respond. Moreover, while the central expectation of Hamas going into the ceasefire was that Israel would lift the siege on Gaza, Israel only took the barest steps to ease the siege, which kept the people at a bare survival level. This policy was a clear affront to Hamas, and had the inescapable effect of undermining both Hamas and popular Palestinian support for the ceasefire.
But Israel's most provocative action, acknowledged by many now as the critical turning point that undermined the ceasefire, took place on November 4, when Israeli forces auspiciously violated the truce by crossing into the Gaza Strip to destroy what the army said was a tunnel dug by Hamas, killing six Hamas militants. Sara Roy, writing in the London Review of Books, contends this attack was "no doubt designed finally to undermine the truce between Israel and Hamas established last June."
The Israeli breach into Gaza was immediately followed by a further provocation by Israel on November 5, when the Israeli government hermetically sealed off all ways into and out of Gaza. As a result, the UN reports that the amount of imports entering Gaza has been "severely reduced to an average of 16 truckloads per day — down from 123 truckloads per day in October and 475 trucks per day in May 2007 — before the Hamas takeover." These limited shipments provide only a fraction of the supplies needed to sustain 1.5 million starving Palestinians."
But obviously most people are blind to this, its always 'those evul mooslims' who cause the trouble.
Up to the mods if this should be moved into the Gaza thread.
Interesting to see a detailed analysis.
"Israel has a long history of deliberately using violence and other provocative measures to trigger reactions in order to create a pretext for military action, and to portray its opponents as the aggressors and Israel as the victim. According to the respected Israeli military historian Zeev Maoz in his recent book, Defending the Holy Land, Israel most notably used this policy of "strategic escalation" in 1955-1956, when it launched deadly raids on Egyptian army positions to provoke Egypt's President Nasser into violent reprisals preceding its ill-fated invasion of Egypt; in 1981-1982, when it launched violent raids on Lebanon in order to provoke Palestinian escalation preceding the Israeli invasion of Lebanon; and between 2001-2004, when Prime Minister Ariel Sharon repeatedly ordered assassinations of high-level Palestinian militants during declared ceasefires, provoking violent attacks that enabled Israel's virtual reoccupation of the West Bank.
Indeed, there was a genuine lull in rocket and mortar fire between June 19 and November 4, due to Hamas compliance and only sporadically violated by a small number of launchings carried out by rival Fatah and Islamic Jihad militants, largely in defiance of Hamas. According to the conservative Israeli-based Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center's analysis of rocket and missile attacks in 2008, there were only three rockets fired at Israel in July, September, and October combined. Israeli civilians living near Gaza experienced an almost unprecedented degree of security during this period, with no Israeli casualties.
Yet despite the major lull, Israel continually raided the West Bank, arresting and frequently killing "wanted" Palestinians from June to October, which had the inevitable effect of ratcheting up pressure on Hamas to respond. Moreover, while the central expectation of Hamas going into the ceasefire was that Israel would lift the siege on Gaza, Israel only took the barest steps to ease the siege, which kept the people at a bare survival level. This policy was a clear affront to Hamas, and had the inescapable effect of undermining both Hamas and popular Palestinian support for the ceasefire.
But Israel's most provocative action, acknowledged by many now as the critical turning point that undermined the ceasefire, took place on November 4, when Israeli forces auspiciously violated the truce by crossing into the Gaza Strip to destroy what the army said was a tunnel dug by Hamas, killing six Hamas militants. Sara Roy, writing in the London Review of Books, contends this attack was "no doubt designed finally to undermine the truce between Israel and Hamas established last June."
The Israeli breach into Gaza was immediately followed by a further provocation by Israel on November 5, when the Israeli government hermetically sealed off all ways into and out of Gaza. As a result, the UN reports that the amount of imports entering Gaza has been "severely reduced to an average of 16 truckloads per day — down from 123 truckloads per day in October and 475 trucks per day in May 2007 — before the Hamas takeover." These limited shipments provide only a fraction of the supplies needed to sustain 1.5 million starving Palestinians."
But obviously most people are blind to this, its always 'those evul mooslims' who cause the trouble.
Up to the mods if this should be moved into the Gaza thread.
Fuck Israel
looks like a good read.
well they guy who wrote it doesnt seem to have a pattern or agenda....... wat
http://student.cs.ucc.ie/cs1064/jabowen … byauid=788
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/3 … but28.html
balanced bloke i say, delivering both sides of the story lulz
http://student.cs.ucc.ie/cs1064/jabowen … byauid=788
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/3 … but28.html
balanced bloke i say, delivering both sides of the story lulz
Truth is never comfortable for the wicked eh?well they guy who wrote it doesnt seem to have a pattern or agenda....... wat
Doesn't need to deliver both sides just the truth, thats the point here.balanced bloke i say, delivering both sides of the story lulz
Anyway, using your own links:
"Palestinian suicide bombings are vicious and grave abuses, clearly war crimes under international law for intentionally killing civilians. They have also been a strategic disaster for Palestinian national aspirations. They have driven the Israeli pub ... "
"Not everyone in Israel was jubilant following Israel's assassination of the much reviled Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, the founder and spiritual leader of the Palestinian militant Islamic group Hamas. Israel's Interior Minister Avraham Poraz, who voted aga ... "
"One can certainly and rightly blame, as Brumer does, Palestinian extremists for damaging the moral justness of the Palestinian cause through murderous and strategically worthless suicide bombings that have killed hundreds of innocent Israelis."
Now why not address some of the points instead of attacking the messenger (and failing)?
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-01-14 18:20:19)
Fuck Israel
It probably took you a few seconds to look up those links, how about spending a little more time and reading the article? Then you can comment and dissect the inaccuracies in the article posted.usmarine wrote:
well they guy who wrote it doesnt seem to have a pattern or agenda....... wat
http://student.cs.ucc.ie/cs1064/jabowen … byauid=788
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/3 … but28.html
balanced bloke i say, delivering both sides of the story lulz
Or maybe tell us what Jane's says about the conflict.
This conflict will make you go crosseyed
For example:
For example:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/14/opini … mp;emc=rssWhat a phantasmagorically strange conflict the Arab-Israeli war had become! Here was a Saudi-educated, anti-Shiite (but nevertheless Iranian-backed) Hamas theologian accusing a one-time Israeli Army prison official-turned-reporter of spying for Yasir Arafat’s Fatah, an organization that had once been the foremost innovator of anti-Israeli terrorism but was now, in Mr. Rayyan’s view, indefensibly, unforgivably moderate.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
oh yes, nobody ever read any of that before today. you guys stumbled on something new. eureka.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
It probably took you a few seconds to look up those links, how about spending a little more time and reading the article? Then you can comment and dissect the inaccuracies in the article posted.
i've read one or two of those things. i think someone posted one here a year or so ago.
funny how if you post something from the jpost or Fox its ok to rip, but not this.
Last edited by usmarine (2009-01-14 19:05:59)
Fox News and the Jerusalem post are one-sided unbalanced opinion organisations.
You've tried, and failed, to say the same thing about the author of the article in the OP.
Now why not address the OP?
You've tried, and failed, to say the same thing about the author of the article in the OP.
Now why not address the OP?
Fuck Israel
Not.Dilbert_X wrote:
Fox News and the Jerusalem post are one-sided unbalanced opinion organisations.
what tv or internet site tells the truth Dil...? I would like to hear the truth...
Love is the answer
Everyone has an agenda, Jesus Christ had an agenda.
Some organisations are wildly biased, some relatively close to the middle.
This report, and reporter, seems to be balanced, factual and well researched - for once.
It also agrees with my assessment, which I've been putting forward for a while now, based on the available information - not just Israeli produced information.
If anyone has anything to suggest its inaccurate go ahead.
Some organisations are wildly biased, some relatively close to the middle.
This report, and reporter, seems to be balanced, factual and well researched - for once.
It also agrees with my assessment, which I've been putting forward for a while now, based on the available information - not just Israeli produced information.
If anyone has anything to suggest its inaccurate go ahead.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-01-14 20:17:11)
Fuck Israel
Just because they agree with you doesn't mean its fact.Dilbert_X wrote:
Everyone has an agenda, Jesus Christ had an agenda.
Some organisations are wildly biased, some relatively close to the middle.
This report, and reporter, seems to be balanced, factual and well researched - for once.
It also agrees with my assessment, which I've been putting forward for a while now, based on the available information - not just Israeli produced information.
If anyone has anything to suggest its inaccurate go ahead.
Hell people can make up their own facts, kinda like hitler had scientific "evidence" that Jews were subhuman.
The you're free to dispute the assessment in the OP, go right ahead.
Fuck Israel
Only reason Hamas wanted a ceasefire was because they were building more rockets. Seems to me that statement is evidence enough. If Israel has found a build up of rockets by the Palestinians, why wouldn't they want to launch an attack and remove the rockets anyways? I thought Hamas was smart enough to launch random fourth of july type rockets into Israel, they fail quite badly.
MSNBC and Hamas are one-sided unbalanced opinion organizations.Dilbert_X wrote:
Fox News and the Jerusalem post are one-sided unbalanced opinion organisations.
For sure, not so much Hamas though.MSNBC and Hamas are one-sided unbalanced opinion organizations.
Fuck Israel
exactly borg. i think i showed this guys amazing bias in his writings.Cybargs wrote:
Just because they agree with you doesn't mean its fact.Dilbert_X wrote:
Everyone has an agenda, Jesus Christ had an agenda.
Some organisations are wildly biased, some relatively close to the middle.
This report, and reporter, seems to be balanced, factual and well researched - for once.
It also agrees with my assessment, which I've been putting forward for a while now, based on the available information - not just Israeli produced information.
If anyone has anything to suggest its inaccurate go ahead.
Hell people can make up their own facts, kinda like hitler had scientific "evidence" that Jews were subhuman.
No you haven't. You posted some links, and as far as i can see you've done zero critical analysis of his work.
"Only reason Hamas wanted a ceasefire was because they were building more rockets. Seems to me that statement is evidence enough"
Statements are evidence now?! Gotta work a bit harder timmy boy.
"Only reason Hamas wanted a ceasefire was because they were building more rockets. Seems to me that statement is evidence enough"
Statements are evidence now?! Gotta work a bit harder timmy boy.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
Of course not, does reinforce my position thoughCybargs wrote:
Just because they agree with you doesn't mean its fact.
Nope, you failed totally, you just don't like what he says so jump to the conclusion he is biased.usm wrote:
think i showed this guys amazing bias in his writings.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-01-15 05:30:27)
Fuck Israel
like i said, i have read his stuff before. he is terrible. he is like fox news and bbc combined with a sprinkle of maddow.m3thod wrote:
No you haven't. You posted some links, and as far as i can see you've done zero critical analysis of his work.
"Only reason Hamas wanted a ceasefire was because they were building more rockets. Seems to me that statement is evidence enough"
Statements are evidence now?! Gotta work a bit harder timmy boy.
According to you, now try to address the actual points.usmarine wrote:
like i said, i have read his stuff before. he is terrible. he is like fox news and bbc combined with a sprinkle of maddow.
Hint, try to think in terms which don't involve TV programs.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2009-01-15 05:55:39)
Fuck Israel
http://en.sevenload.com/videos/GWKpf7z- … -subtitlesusmarine wrote:
like i said, i have read his stuff before. he is terrible. he is like fox news and bbc combined with a sprinkle of maddow.m3thod wrote:
No you haven't. You posted some links, and as far as i can see you've done zero critical analysis of his work.
"Only reason Hamas wanted a ceasefire was because they were building more rockets. Seems to me that statement is evidence enough"
Statements are evidence now?! Gotta work a bit harder timmy boy.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
I'm going to go with "both guilty".