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2009-01-03 16:37:52
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6880|London, England
He has a point about the rocket attacks thing, or like what I said, I'd also consider a failure/loss (ok not pwnage, that was stupid) for Israel if:

a) they don't destroy Hamas
b) they don't stop the rocket attacks or at least, very significantly reduce it (no, fuck that, stop it outright)

There should be no more BS, either go all in or don't bother now. You've already done so much, might aswell finish the job. I don't even think Israel themselves have any clear goals as to what they're trying to do, so far all I've seen is "we're going to areas where they launch rockets and then we'll stay there until it stops" - WTF is that? Let me put on my armchair general badge before I say this, but that shit ain't gonna work

Tbh, I reckon the only way they're gonna be able to stop the rockets is if they destroy Hamas and then go from there.


Basically if Israel don't manage to destroy Hamas then like I said before they're fucked, not literally, but questions will have to be asked...
2009-01-03 16:48:36
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6746|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)

mafia996630 wrote:

SgtHeihn wrote:

mafia996630 wrote:


You say that now but before it was all like ; "You know what, fuck all the Palestinians. They are getting whats coming to them."

USMARINE : SO SUE ME.
The reason I say that, is because hamas has the best PR in the world. Haven't you noticed that every time Israel drops a bomb or sneezes wrong, x amount of civilians die including x amount of children? Then you have every bleeding heart liberal in the world crying and screaming how mean Israel is.

mafia996630 wrote:

Also size doesn't matter, well at least that what my gf keeps telling me.
She is saying this to make you feel better while fucking your friends.
fuk hamas. this is about the suffering and killing of innocent people. why  it so hard to understand one of the most basic human emotions (compassion)
I don't listen to any report hamas gives. Maybe if they stopped shooting rockets and tried to fix what is wrong their, innocent people wouldn't die.
2009-01-03 16:57:57
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6746|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)
Also, If you haven't noticed, its easier for the Palestinian people to blame all their woes instead of looking at their own leaders.
2009-01-03 17:01:05
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6860|132 and Bush

mafia996630 wrote:

http://i42.tinypic.com/294orkh.jpg

VS

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/ … pice_4.jpg
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/ … ach__2.jpg
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/images/s … aar5_m.jpg
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/ … 080127.jpg
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/ … _idf_7.jpg

(you get the fukin point)


isreal will officially be pwned if they are not able to defeat Hamas.Who agrees ? who disagrees?
Yes I get the point and so does Hamas. Invite Insist on retaliation by a superior force in order to gain support from countries who can match the Zionist firepower.

The primary goal of Hamas is to induce Palestinian casualties. You'd have to be incredibly short sighted to think that by firing rockets at Isreal the intent is to inflict a strategic blow to the IDF. They are not dumb enough to believe they can actually defeat Israel (Although some people here seem to buy it).
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2009-01-03 17:04:18
destruktion_6143
Was ist Loos?
+154|6886|Canada
Has Israel learned nothing from Lebanon?  They cannot win in a ground assault on hamas. Just cannot fight conventionally against a guerrilla militia. Watch the Israeli support drop once they realize they are going to get a LOT of casualties.

My prediction is either they leave defeated or they stay in gaza fighting like America in Iraq.
2009-01-03 17:05:47
destruktion_6143
Was ist Loos?
+154|6886|Canada

Kmarion wrote:

mafia996630 wrote:

http://i42.tinypic.com/294orkh.jpg

VS

http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/ … pice_4.jpg
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/ … ach__2.jpg
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/images/s … aar5_m.jpg
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/ … 080127.jpg
http://www.israeli-weapons.com/weapons/ … _idf_7.jpg

(you get the fukin point)


isreal will officially be pwned if they are not able to defeat Hamas.Who agrees ? who disagrees?
Yes I get the point and so does Hamas. Invite Insist on retaliation by a superior force in order to gain support from countries who can match the Zionist firepower.

The primary goal of Hamas is to induce Palestinian casualties. You'd have to be incredibly short sighted to think that by firing rockets at Isreal the intent is to inflict a strategic blow to the IDF. They are not dumb enough to believe they can actually defeat Israel (Although some people here seem to buy it).
Its a pride thing, as long as other palestinians see that hamas is not bowing down to the "Zionist Enemy" they gain support.
2009-01-03 17:06:50
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6746|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)
Or they could just do it the way did in Falliujha. Give the civvis time to get out, then level the place.
2009-01-03 17:19:01
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6860|132 and Bush

m3thod wrote:

Vax wrote:

I don't have the link handy, but I was reading that the IDF was sending text messages to Gazan's cellphones to warn them of impending airstrikes.

Those evil bastards
Watch out we're going to blow up your homes.  Thanks for reading.

This one was reading his:

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/4 … 9582-1.jpg

Here, a Palestinian photographs an unexploded Israeli bomb, which landed in a house.
Reminds me of this.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5270118.stm

The shell is huge, bigger than the young boy pushed forward to stand reluctantly next to it while we get our cameras out and record the scene for posterity.
Holy shit wtf BBC ..lol.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2009-01-03 17:27:38
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6860|132 and Bush

destruktion_6143 wrote:

Has Israel learned nothing from Lebanon?  They cannot win in a ground assault on hamas. Just cannot fight conventionally against a guerrilla militia. Watch the Israeli support drop once they realize they are going to get a LOT of casualties.

My prediction is either they leave defeated or they stay in gaza fighting like America in Iraq.
So going in the ground is completely thrown out because they made mistakes in Lebanon? Holy shit that a simple assessment. There is now way they can do what they need to do without going in. Period.

But don't take my word, listen to the Lieutenant Colonel
http://www.nypost.com/seven/01012009/ne … htm?page=0
From earlier briefings in Israel, I know the IDF takes an almost absurd degree of care in its targeting. The questioning doesn't stop with "Is that the right building?" it then asks, "What should be our angle of attack to ensure any rubble falls into the street, not atop the primary school next door?" (Hamas consistently embeds terror facilities among innocent civilians.)

Hitting a terrorist hideout in an apartment building, for example, an F-16 would be armed with the smallest warhead that could do the job. If the terrorists are tucked into rooms on the fourth floor, targeting officers evaluate which window the guided missile should go through to kill the terrorists, while minimizing harm to civilians living below.

Any military veteran can tell that the Israelis are taking enormous care to spare civilians. Given the number of airstrikes thus far and the hundreds of tons of bombs dropped, it remains remarkable that so few innocents have been injured in such a dense urban environment.

But, as this column has stressed for years, fighting terrorists effectively means going in on the ground - and sooner is better than later. You can't impress fanatics into surrendering. You have to kill them. Nothing else works.

Let me repeat that: You have to kill fanatics. Nothing else works.

Ordinarily, Israeli leaders would only need to ponder battlefield costs and counter international pro-terror propaganda. But the rise of President-elect Obama complicates matters gravely.

Even the timing of Israel's strike at Hamas has been driven, at least in part, by the coming power transfer in Washington. The immediate trigger was the hundreds of Hamas rocket attacks on Israel after the terrorists refused to renew an Egyptian-brokered cease-fire, but Israel's leaders also counted on steadfast support from the Bush administration in its final days.

Obama's an unknown quantity, though. While hysterical claims that he'll be pro-Islamist from start to finish are absurd, even minor shifts away from supporting Israel's struggle against terrorists could have catastrophic consequences. And Israel's vaunted intelligence services can't tell their superiors what Obama will do, since few (if any) of the president-elect's supporters know what he intends to do.

In fact, the president-elect may not know himself. He's a babe in the woods, and the woods are full of wolves. Fighting political rivals doesn't prepare you for fighting terrorist fanatics.

For now, Israel must worry that a major ground offensive against Hamas would be halted halfway by the withdrawal of US support, both diplomatic and practical. The IDF even counts on us to replenish reserve stocks of the guided weapons that minimize civilian casual ties or penetrate tunnels and bunkers. Israel could find that it had paid a grim price in the blood of its sons and daughters, only to be robbed of the chance to hand Hamas a meaningful defeat.

As for our president-elect, his all-too-coy insistence that "we have only one president at a time" has been selective from the start. Glad to pontificate on stimulus packages and union benefits, Obama has used the one-president mantra to avoid taking stands on difficult issues that bedevil or bewilder him.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2009-01-03 17:30:01
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6746|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)
^^^^But Israel is bad Kerry, they are trying to wipe them out.
2009-01-03 17:34:39
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6860|132 and Bush

In this latest skirmish I really don't see any other choice. Hamas needs to be neutralized. This isn't to say Israel hasn't made some stupid and brutal moves before.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2009-01-03 17:36:07
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|6930|UK

Vax wrote:

m3thod wrote:

Vax wrote:

I don't have the link handy, but I was reading that the IDF was sending text messages to Gazan's cellphones to warn them of impending airstrikes.

Those evil bastards
Watch out we're going to blow up your homes.  Thanks for reading.

This one was reading his:

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/4 … 9582-1.jpg

Here, a Palestinian photographs an unexploded Israeli bomb, which landed in a house.
The point being, it illustrates a difference 
Israel actively tries to minimize civilian deaths (like when they dropped leaflets on southern Lebanon) warning people

You get butthurt about that ? enough to call me names in karma..

When have Hamas warned any civvies about any of the 6000+ rockets they have fired into Israel ? OH gee, never, because their intention is to kill Civilians, as well as terrorise the public.

Israelis intentionally target: 
http://www.weaponsurvey.com/graphics/qassam.jpg

Why not? Prayers in Islam occur at defined times throughout the day.

Hamas intentionally target:
http://cgis.jpost.com/Blogs/fendel/reso … ithome.JPG
Yawn.  We don't target civilians.  Bullshit.  Prayers in Islam occur defined and explicit times throughout the day.  So why did the following happen:

Earlier on Saturday, at least 13 people were killed in one Israeli raid when a missile struck a crowded mosque in Beit Lahiya, Palestinian medics said.  Witnesses said more than 200 people had been inside the Ibrahim al-Maqadna mosque for evening prayers when it was struck. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle … 809959.stm

If they wanted to level the mosque which was allegedly used to store rockets, why didn't they target it when i would be more or less empty? You know, outside prayer times.  ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS LOOK AT A ISLAMIC PRAYER CALANDER.  So stop shoveling the bullshit they spew, Israel has no problems targeting civilians.

Secondly, considering you evidently can't think for yourself you'll probably say well serves them right blah blah blah rockets blah blah bah. 

Israel Version:

Israel released video of an air attack on 28 December, which appeared to show rockets being loaded onto a lorry. The truck and those close to it were then destroyed by a missile.

Alternative version:

It turned out, however, that a 55-year-old Gaza resident named Ahmed Sanur, or Samur, claimed that the truck was his and that he and members of his family and his workers were moving oxygen cylinders from his workshop.

This workshop had been damaged when a building next door was bombed by the Israelis and he was afraid of looters, he said. The Israeli human rights group B'Tselem put Mr Sanur's account on its website, together with a photograph of burned out oxygen cylinders. 

https://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45342000/jpg/_45342876_sanur_226.jpg

https://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/45342000/jpg/_45342917_gas226.jpg

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle … 809371.stm

Lastly, Israel has the generosity (lol) to inform it's targets it's going to level their home? That awfully fucking decent of them, next time i get burgled i hope the fucker sends me a letter in the post informing me of his intentions.   What a crock of shit.

Last edited by m3thod (2009-01-03 17:37:10)

Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
2009-01-03 17:36:08
SgtHeihn
Should have ducked
+394|6746|Ham Lake, MN (Fucking Cold)

Kmarion wrote:

In this latest skirmish I really don't see any other choice. Hamas needs to be neutralized. This isn't to say Israel hasn't made some stupid and brutal moves before.
But they are a peace loving group that wants to live in harmony with their Jewish neighbors!
2009-01-03 18:12:31
san4
The Mas
+311|6947|NYC, a place to live

m3thod wrote:

Yawn.  We don't target civilians.  Bullshit.  Prayers in Islam occur defined and explicit times throughout the day.  So why did the following happen:

Earlier on Saturday, at least 13 people were killed in one Israeli raid when a missile struck a crowded mosque in Beit Lahiya, Palestinian medics said.  Witnesses said more than 200 people had been inside the Ibrahim al-Maqadna mosque for evening prayers when it was struck. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle … 809959.stm

If they wanted to level the mosque which was allegedly used to store rockets, why didn't they target it when i would be more or less empty? You know, outside prayer times.  ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS LOOK AT A ISLAMIC PRAYER CALANDER.  So stop shoveling the bullshit they spew, Israel has no problems targeting civilians.
I wondered the same thing when I saw that in the news. I'd like to hear the Israeli explanation. Israel is clearly willing to cause some civilian casualties, but the idea that Israel routinely targets civilians is delusional.

m3thod wrote:

Israel Version:

Israel released video of an air attack on 28 December, which appeared to show rockets being loaded onto a lorry. The truck and those close to it were then destroyed by a missile.

Alternative version:

It turned out, however, that a 55-year-old Gaza resident named Ahmed Sanur, or Samur, claimed that the truck was his and that he and members of his family and his workers were moving oxygen cylinders from his workshop.

This workshop had been damaged when a building next door was bombed by the Israelis and he was afraid of looters, he said. The Israeli human rights group B'Tselem put Mr Sanur's account on its website, together with a photograph of burned out oxygen cylinders.
That is not evidence that Israel intentionally targets civilians, it is evidence that the Israeli military mistook oxygen cylinders for rocket launchers.
2009-01-03 18:16:22
san4
The Mas
+311|6947|NYC, a place to live

m3thod wrote:

Lastly, Israel has the generosity (lol) to inform it's targets it's going to level their home? That awfully fucking decent of them, next time i get burgled i hope the fucker sends me a letter in the post informing me of his intentions.   What a crock of shit.
Huh? That's powerful evidence that Israel attempts to minimize civilian casualties. There's no other reason to notify residents of a targeted building.
2009-01-03 18:23:46
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6412|what

The Palestinian people are being punished for being dumb enough to let Hamas into the government.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
2009-01-03 18:35:06
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|6930|UK

san4 wrote:

m3thod wrote:

Lastly, Israel has the generosity (lol) to inform it's targets it's going to level their home? That awfully fucking decent of them, next time i get burgled i hope the fucker sends me a letter in the post informing me of his intentions.   What a crock of shit.
Huh? That's powerful evidence that Israel attempts to minimize civilian casualties. There's no other reason to notify residents of a targeted building.
is it only me that find this complete horseshit? Essentially dropping leaflets is 'we're going to let you live but we're going to ruin your lives anyway by destroying your homes, business and possessions'.  Gee whizz how kind of you.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
2009-01-03 18:37:14
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|6930|UK

san4 wrote:

m3thod wrote:

Yawn.  We don't target civilians.  Bullshit.  Prayers in Islam occur defined and explicit times throughout the day.  So why did the following happen:

Earlier on Saturday, at least 13 people were killed in one Israeli raid when a missile struck a crowded mosque in Beit Lahiya, Palestinian medics said.  Witnesses said more than 200 people had been inside the Ibrahim al-Maqadna mosque for evening prayers when it was struck. 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle … 809959.stm

If they wanted to level the mosque which was allegedly used to store rockets, why didn't they target it when i would be more or less empty? You know, outside prayer times.  ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS LOOK AT A ISLAMIC PRAYER CALANDER.  So stop shoveling the bullshit they spew, Israel has no problems targeting civilians.
I wondered the same thing when I saw that in the news. I'd like to hear the Israeli explanation. Israel is clearly willing to cause some civilian casualties, but the idea that Israel routinely targets civilians is delusional.

m3thod wrote:

Israel Version:

Israel released video of an air attack on 28 December, which appeared to show rockets being loaded onto a lorry. The truck and those close to it were then destroyed by a missile.

Alternative version:

It turned out, however, that a 55-year-old Gaza resident named Ahmed Sanur, or Samur, claimed that the truck was his and that he and members of his family and his workers were moving oxygen cylinders from his workshop.

This workshop had been damaged when a building next door was bombed by the Israelis and he was afraid of looters, he said. The Israeli human rights group B'Tselem put Mr Sanur's account on its website, together with a photograph of burned out oxygen cylinders.
That is not evidence that Israel intentionally targets civilians, it is evidence that the Israeli military mistook oxygen cylinders for rocket launchers.
Delusional? Suppose it's down to what you want to believe.  So lets look at some up to date statistics:

https://i40.tinypic.com/2r4u5xt.jpg

http://www.btselem.org/English/Statisti … alties.asp

Oh yes i forget, ahem its collateral. What Israel says and what it does are two very different things.

The oxygen cylinders bit isn't evidence to prove Israel targets civilians.  It's to counter the obvious responses claiming Israel was in the right to level a packed mosque when it allegedly used to store rockets....

Last edited by m3thod (2009-01-03 18:49:03)

Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
2009-01-03 19:08:33
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6910|USA
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090104/ap_ … lestinians


Yup go figure, NOW the Arabs are gunna demand something be done to stop Israel after Israel takes the gloves off. Nothing of course is said by the Arabs about the rocket attacks that started it all. This is the same bullshit they pulled when they started a war with Israel and just before Israel finished kickin the shit outta them they screamed for UN intervention.



I love it I love it. You are gunna actually criticize Israel for having the nerve to inflict more causalities than it receives when it responds to to terror attacks.
2009-01-03 19:18:26
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7021

lowing wrote:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090104/ap_on_re_mi_ea/un_un_israel_palestinians


Yup go figure, NOW the Arabs are gunna demand something be done to stop Israel after Israel takes the gloves off. Nothing of course is said by the Arabs about the rocket attacks that started it all. This is the same bullshit they pulled when they started a war with Israel and just before Israel finished kickin the shit outta them they screamed for UN intervention.



I love it I love it. You are gunna actually criticize Israel for having the nerve to inflict more causalities than it receives when it responds to to terror attacks.
they can go fuck off tbh.
2009-01-03 19:35:57
Vax
Member
+42|6111|Flyover country
Please.
IF it's true there were 200 civvies there and Israel "leveled a packed mosque" there'd be much more than 13 deaths
And if they were targeting civilians, and purposely hit the mosque when it was 'packed' they surely could have killed more eh ?

Seems a little contradictory. I have not sat and watched all the footage, but the guncamera I saw that was supposedly of a mosque...if there were 200 people in THAT building they sure didn't survive. How many mosques have they blown up ?

I am not trying to say Israel are all innocent saints, and *insert platitude about how war is messy*
Yes civilians always die

Don't you think the IDF knows the world is watching ? They put the guncamera footage on you tube.






/meh sudden case of deja vu
2009-01-03 19:51:05
san4
The Mas
+311|6947|NYC, a place to live

m3thod wrote:

san4 wrote:

m3thod wrote:

Lastly, Israel has the generosity (lol) to inform it's targets it's going to level their home? That awfully fucking decent of them, next time i get burgled i hope the fucker sends me a letter in the post informing me of his intentions.   What a crock of shit.
Huh? That's powerful evidence that Israel attempts to minimize civilian casualties. There's no other reason to notify residents of a targeted building.
is it only me that find this complete horseshit? Essentially dropping leaflets is 'we're going to let you live but we're going to ruin your lives anyway by destroying your homes, business and possessions'.  Gee whizz how kind of you.
Probably just you. No question, it is totally unfair that the homes of Palestinian civilians are being destroyed. It would have been easy for Hamas to prevent the current attacks.

But Hamas chose to attack Israeli civilians and Israel is now destroying Hamas installations. Given that fact, informing civilians in advance minimizes civilian casualties.
2009-01-03 19:51:15
m3thod
All kiiiiiiiiinds of gainz
+2,197|6930|UK

Vax wrote:

Please.
IF it's true there were 200 civvies there and Israel "leveled a packed mosque" there'd be much more than 13 deaths
And if they were targeting civilians, and purposely hit the mosque when it was 'packed' they surely could have killed more eh ?

Seems a little contradictory. I have not sat and watched all the footage, but the guncamera I saw that was supposedly of a mosque...if there were 200 people in THAT building they sure didn't survive. How many mosques have they blown up ?

I am not trying to say Israel are all innocent saints, and *insert platitude about how war is messy*
Yes civilians always die

Don't you think the IDF knows the world is watching ? They put the guncamera footage on you tube.






/meh sudden case of deja vu
Learn to read.  The article states at least 13.  I would be certain that figure will rise once they find and piece together the bits and pieces of the individuals that were in there AND lets not forget it's still warzone, don't know about you but i wouldn't like to go around scavenging around a smouldering bombsite just yet.  No idea how many mosques the IDF have obliterated, i don't keep track of their work for some strange reason.

Of course the IDF knows the worlds watching.  It doesn't give a fuck, hell as you state it's even got its own snazzy boobtoob channel to glorify its work.  Seriously whats the worst that's going to happen? Some random UN resolution to condemn Israel that will be instantly slapped down courtesy of the US....oh noes.

Last edited by m3thod (2009-01-03 20:06:24)

Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
2009-01-03 19:52:26
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6860|132 and Bush


Oxygen tanks? .. That's a whole hell of a lot of oxygen tanks.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2009-01-03 19:53:34
san4
The Mas
+311|6947|NYC, a place to live

m3thod wrote:

Delusional? Suppose it's down to what you want to believe.  So lets look at some up to date statistics:

http://i40.tinypic.com/2r4u5xt.jpg

http://www.btselem.org/English/Statisti … alties.asp

Oh yes i forget, ahem its collateral. What Israel says and what it does are two very different things.
You said Israel targets civilians. Evidence of the number of civilians killed by Israel is not evidence that Israel targets civilians.

 

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