BF2S Forums WOW ISthis is the first real step to peace in the ME!?!?!!?!? .....not

that pic looks dodgy...

Turquoise wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

That should make Afghanistan into an enlightened first world global economic player with all the trappings of a pluralist democracy...

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/21/91580 … 2c.jpg?v=0

For what it's worth, Afghanistan has been a shithole for a long, long time.

It would be hard for us to leave it in a worse state than it's been in.  Granted, allowing the heroin trade to flourish via poppy production certainly isn't helping things.

You can't lose. You can't possibly be accused of leaving it in a worse condition than it started in - because it was a fucking dump to begin with...

need more guys than that to invade pakistan IMFO

Last edited by Mekstizzle (2008-12-20 11:21:37)

usmarine wrote:

if it wasnt for the US, afghanistan wouldnt be afghanistan right now.  they then turned it into a shit hole on their own because of their dorked up religion.

Well, fanatical religion doesn't help their progress, but I'd argue that the fanaticism itself is actually the result of dire environmental conditions.

Cultures tend to be more extreme when they live in areas that have scarce food, harsh climates, and few resources.  If you look at the history of Judeo-Christian religions, they all come from the desert.  The contemporary polytheistic religions to Judaism were also extreme in their own rights with things like human sacrifices.

So, IMHO, much of Afghanistan's backwards status goes all the way back to ancient times, where a simply harsh environment has produced a very isolated and extreme culture.  By the time Islam made its way to this area, it was a perfect fit, given its own often violent tendencies.

The best we can hope for with Afghanistan is that we somehow transform their economy and education system into something resembling a Western society.  I don't think that's going to happen though.

Bertster7 wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

You can't lose. You can't possibly be accused of leaving it in a worse condition than it started in - because it was a fucking dump to begin with...

Well, the heroin thing is definitely something with the potential to make things worse.  We need to set up a more viable agricultural economy for them.  Having them grow 30% more opium than the world consumes is NOT a good thing.  A lot of the money made via the heroin trade is going directly to the Taliban.

That's nothing new.

Certainly been going on since before the invasion. That's preserving the status quo, not making things worse....

One of the only good things to come out of the Taliban was their harsh ban on opium production.  While they ruled, they kept farmers from growing poppies.

After we took out the Taliban, that level of control over the farmers was erased.

Last edited by Turquoise (2008-12-20 12:00:10)

usmarine wrote:

i dont see an issue with them growing their drugs.  i mean, if we really cared we would have fire bombed central america and south america by now, and turned mexico into a giant wind farm / solor farm / prison colony.

What's most concerning is where the money goes.  This isn't the same as the drug trade in Columbia.  The money from Afghanistan heroin goes directly to the Taliban in many cases.

..and yes, there is a certain irony to this, given their previous ban on it.

Last edited by Turquoise (2008-12-20 12:01:59)

usmarine wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

The money from Afghanistan heroin goes directly to the Taliban in many cases.

meh.  they get it from other places tbh.  from my time there i would say it seemed like a very minimal percentage.

The Discovery Channel has a very good documentary on Afghan heroin and its connections to terror.  You should check it out.

usmarine wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

usmarine wrote:

meh.  they get it from other places tbh.  from my time there i would say it seemed like a very minimal percentage.

The Discovery Channel has a very good documentary on Afghan heroin and its connections to terror.  You should check it out.

i've seen that stuff.  they still get their money somehow anyway.  so at least let the people have their lives back.

They can grow things other than heroin.  We just need to help them in that respect.