david363
Crotch fires and you: the untold story
+314|7043|Comber, Northern Ireland
Ban on tobacco displays announced
cigarettes on sale
Shops may have to remove displays

The open display of tobacco in shops is to be banned in England and Wales, the government has announced.

But plans for an outright ban on tobacco vending machines and branding on cigarette packets have been scrapped - at least for now.

Ministers hope the display ban, which is also under consideration in Scotland, will reduce smoking. Northern Ireland is yet to decide a policy.

Critics say the moves do not go far enough to stop young people smoking.

A government consultation on how to deter young people from smoking launched six months ago found the "overwhelming majority" of 100,000 responses backed the display ban.
   
We expect nothing less than a robust tobacco control plan which includes a total ban on cigarette vending machines
British Heart Foundation

Tobacco store fears

Health Secretary for England Alan Johnson said he had been impressed with evidence from other countries, suggesting the move would have an impact on smoking rates.

Ministers say where other countries - such as Iceland - have removed displays, smoking prevalence among young people has fallen by up to 10%.

Alan Johnson said: "They see the point of sale display and as a result of seeing it, it encourages them to take up smoking. This is the key evidence as to why we have 200,000 11 to 15-year-olds smoking."
   
FROM THE TODAY PROGRAMME

More from Today programme

He said people who start smoking in their youth - aged 11 to 15 - are three times more likely to die a premature death than someone who takes up smoking at the age of 20.

They are also more likely to be hooked for life.

Deborah Arnott, director of the anti-smoking group ASH, backed the ban and said the prohibition of the display of tobacco products at point of sale would be "a proportionate response to the death and disease caused by tobacco".

The Tobacco Manufacturers' Association opposes the cigarette display ban and says it could have serious unintended consequences, such as driving the sale of illicit tobacco.
   
FROM THE TODAY PROGRAMME

More from Today programme

It could also damage the income of smaller shops that rely heavily on tobacco sales, said the TMA's chief executive Mr Chris Ogden.

Mr Johnson said the big supermarkets would be asked first to remove their displays.

Restricting access

He said other plans had been scrapped as a result of the consultation - such as getting rid of 10-pack cigarettes. Only selling cigarettes in packs of 20 might drive people who are trying to quit to smoke more, he said.

But Mr Johnson said they would clamp down on underage sales from cigarette sales vending machines - people wanting to buy these cigarettes will have to show proof of age to obtain a token to work the machine.

If this doesn't work, Mr Johnson said they had the power to ban vending machines altogether.

The British Heart Foundation says a total ban on vending machines is the only way to prevent children accessing cigarettes.

Vending machines are the source of cigarettes for nearly one in five young smokers aged 11 to 15 - some 46,000 children.
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A British Heart Foundation spokeswoman said: "When the government announces further steps on tobacco control we expect nothing less than a robust tobacco control plan which includes a total ban on cigarette vending machines.

"We are concerned about the large number of children being able to access cigarettes without a face to face transaction."

The British Lung Foundation agreed, saying: "Nearly three quarters of people with lung disease tell us that they believe there should be a total ban on cigarette vending machines as they are the main source of cigarettes to young smokers."

Dr Vivienne Nathanson of the British Medical Association said: "We hope the proposals to make vending machines 'child-proof' will be rigidly enforced and that if they do not work then this issue will be revisited by ministers."

The government had also considered banning all promotional material from tobacco packaging.

But ministers say until there is enough evidence such a move would actually stop young people taking up smoking it will not introduce a ban.



http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/7771210.stm


What do you think of this? will it really stop people smoking?
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6457|what

It will probably be the same strategy adopted here, but does the UK have similar shock packaging such as this:

Front                                                    Back
https://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2004/06/10/11SMOKING_2,0.jpghttps://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2004/06/10/11SMOKING,0.jpg

https://www.news-medical.net/images/quitsmokingwarning.jpg

Having a wall on text isn't likely to stop a smoker imo, but the above can and does.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
JahManRed
wank
+646|6932|IRELAND

I bought a packet of cigs before going out on Saturday night. They had a picture of someones rotting teeth taking up half the packet. So why then, when I went into the bar, my pint of beer didn't have a picture of a rotting liver on it?
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6804|so randum

TheAussieReaper wrote:

It will probably be the same strategy adopted here, but does the UK have similar shock packaging such as this:

Front                                                    Back
http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2004/ … NG_2,0.jpghttp://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2004/ … KING,0.jpg

http://www.news-medical.net/images/quit … arning.jpg

Having a wall on text isn't likely to stop a smoker imo, but the above can and does.
Yep. the pics are starting to come in circulation

I started smoking when i was 15, sounds like im fucked
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
david363
Crotch fires and you: the untold story
+314|7043|Comber, Northern Ireland
yeah i have seen a few pics on the packets, mostly mayfair, but yeah if they have them on cigs why not drink? all it says is usually "enjoy this responsibility" or some crap.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6925|London, England
People complain that the government are trying to dictate lives, but this really isn't aimed at stopping people from smoking, cos you can't do much about that. What it's aimed at is stopping people from starting, which, you can't really stop either but it will work a little I'm sure of it. It's bound to. Besides, when the government/public finance/tax money/call it what you want pays for the idiots who ruin themselves with excessive smoking and shit like that, then I think they have a say in shit like this. The amount of money that is poured into healthcare, anything that will make that figure less is a plus for me.
jord
Member
+2,382|6982|The North, beyond the wall.
People that start smoking do it usually because they were offered a single cigarette. Thus won't see the packet...



I'm against all this shit really. The amount of money it takes to produce these crappy pictures that won't stop too many people is probably more than the amount those few would have cost the NHS.
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6804|so randum
plus tax on smokes is pretty important for the gov lol
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Agent_Dung_Bomb
Member
+302|7040|Salt Lake City

This is really a double edge sword.  Governments and health departments want people to quit smoking because of the costs associated with caring for smokers.  The problem is that they don't spend all of the money collected from taxes on tobacco for tobacco programs or related health issues.  That means part of their revenue stream would dry up.

The other side of the blade is this.  Even if everyone stopped smoking right now, the revenue from the taxes would be completely gone, but the health effects of those that have already been tobacco users would continue for decades to come.
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6985|Disaster Free Zone

FatherTed wrote:

plus tax on smokes is pretty important for the gov lol
I very much doubt that. I'd be very surprised if it made any more then 0.5% of total revenue.

JahManRed wrote:

I bought a packet of cigs before going out on Saturday night. They had a picture of someones rotting teeth taking up half the packet. So why then, when I went into the bar, my pint of beer didn't have a picture of a rotting liver on it?
Ohh the classic, "if your going to ban cigarettes why not ban alcohol too?" bullshit argument. The simple truth to the matter is:
  • Every cigarette is harmful, where as only excessive drinking is.
  • Cigarettes offer no health benefits, responisble drinking (mostly in the form of red wine, though some others to a lesser extent) can have health benefits.
  • A lower percentage of the population smoke yet there are higher hospitalisations and deaths then alcohol related incidents.
  • Cigarettes are directly harmful to you and other near you, where as a lot of alcohol related incidents are indirectly caused by alcohol.
NeXuS
Shock it till ya know it
+375|6646|Atlanta, Georgia
I don't smoke. I hate smoke. But really come on. How can you ban someone from advertising there product just because it's know to cause health problems? Thousands of people die every day in car accidents but car commercials still run on a regular basis.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6709|North Carolina

NeXuS wrote:

I don't smoke. I hate smoke. But really come on. How can you ban someone from advertising there product just because it's know to cause health problems? Thousands of people die every day in car accidents but car commercials still run on a regular basis.
I mostly agree.  This is rather nanny statish.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|7079|Moscow, Russia

NeXuS wrote:

I don't smoke. I hate smoke. But really come on. How can you ban someone from advertising there product just because it's know to cause health problems? Thousands of people die every day in car accidents but car commercials still run on a regular basis.
cars have an actual purpose other than to kill you - tobacco doesn't.
anyway, as a person who quit smoking after several years of 1,5 pack a day, i say - more power to those who try to ban tobacco ads and stuff like that. this shit never lets go - it still haunts me even though it's been two years since my last cig - so the less tobacco related stuff i see around me the more comfortable i'd feel.

Last edited by Shahter (2008-12-10 05:01:03)

if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
JahManRed
wank
+646|6932|IRELAND

DrunkFace wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

plus tax on smokes is pretty important for the gov lol
I very much doubt that. I'd be very surprised if it made any more then 0.5% of total revenue.

JahManRed wrote:

I bought a packet of cigs before going out on Saturday night. They had a picture of someones rotting teeth taking up half the packet. So why then, when I went into the bar, my pint of beer didn't have a picture of a rotting liver on it?
Ohh the classic, "if your going to ban cigarettes why not ban alcohol too?" bullshit argument. The simple truth to the matter is:
  • Every cigarette is harmful, where as only excessive drinking is.
  • Cigarettes offer no health benefits, responsible drinking (mostly in the form of red wine, though some others to a lesser extent) can have health benefits.
  • A lower percentage of the population smoke yet there are higher hospitalisations and deaths then alcohol related incidents.
  • Cigarettes are directly harmful to you and other near you, where as a lot of alcohol related incidents are indirectly caused by alcohol.
Take it your a drinker and not a smoker too then. There are plenty of things out there that are bad for you. Fatty & salty foods clog arteries.  One fat soaked burger won't do you any harm. Your body can process it and recover. One cig will not do you any harm either. You body will repair any damage done. Same as inhaling smoke coming from a fire. It won't kill you. Keep doing it for years and it will. So I don't see much difference between drinking and smoking, considering binge drinking is like 5 pints of beer. Ppl have that nightly.
Do ppl smoke a packet of cigs and go home and beat the wife?

As someone who was off fags for 5 years and has recently got back on them (stress broke me) I actually welcome these ads. Anything that stops my kids following in my footsteps I welcome. (I don't smoke infront of him btw)
I was pointing out how cigs get the lion share of publicity when their are plenty of products out there which are bad for you. Accumulative or not.

The cig smokers taxes pay for the national health service so you all should be thanking us for putting our health at risk to keep you healthy.
zeidmaan
Member
+234|6719|Vienna

I dont know how its like in other countries, but in Austria we have special shops called Tabaks. These shops sell cigarettes and everything related to it. Banning displaying of cigarettes would be completely pointless. You need to be over 18 to buy, and I think thats enough. Other shops are not permitted to sell cigarettes.

Only tabaks have vending machines outside, and even there you need to insert some kind of an identification card to "unlock" the machine. So people under 18 cant buy at vending machines either.

Only problem is that sometimes when you are buying at a vending machine kids come up to you begging to buy them cigarettes. Of course its illegal to buy cigarettes to kids.

Packs dont have any nasty pictures on them, just textual messages saying that its unhealthy, or sometimes something more nasty like smoking will shrink your penis, or it will cause impotence, lead to sudden weight gain etc.
-MetaL*
Sup guies
+157|5938|Southern California
Good riddance, I would lol pretty hard if this ever happened in America.
jord
Member
+2,382|6982|The North, beyond the wall.

-MetaL* wrote:

Good riddance, I would lol pretty hard if this ever happened in America.
Yeah, fuck freedom! BAN ALCOHOL AND TASTY FOOD TOO. THEN BAN CARS THAT RUN ON PETROL! Yay, we hate freedom. We hate freedom. come on, chant!
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6854|CH/BR - in UK

DrunkFace wrote:

FatherTed wrote:

plus tax on smokes is pretty important for the gov lol
I very much doubt that. I'd be very surprised if it made any more then 0.5% of total revenue.

JahManRed wrote:

I bought a packet of cigs before going out on Saturday night. They had a picture of someones rotting teeth taking up half the packet. So why then, when I went into the bar, my pint of beer didn't have a picture of a rotting liver on it?
Ohh the classic, "if your going to ban cigarettes why not ban alcohol too?" bullshit argument. The simple truth to the matter is:
  • Every cigarette is harmful, where as only excessive drinking is.
  • Cigarettes offer no health benefits, responisble drinking (mostly in the form of red wine, though some others to a lesser extent) can have health benefits.
  • A lower percentage of the population smoke yet there are higher hospitalisations and deaths then alcohol related incidents.
  • Cigarettes are directly harmful to you and other near you, where as a lot of alcohol related incidents are indirectly caused by alcohol.
And on that note, there are plenty of ads against excessive drinking. Just take a look around the underground ads!

edit: And there are Virgin ads against gaining weight. You can't really say that the UK focuses solely on one thing. They try to tackle them all - although people being overweight isn't as big an issue in this country.

-kon

Last edited by konfusion (2008-12-10 07:14:11)

-MetaL*
Sup guies
+157|5938|Southern California

jord wrote:

-MetaL* wrote:

Good riddance, I would lol pretty hard if this ever happened in America.
Yeah, fuck freedom! BAN ALCOHOL AND TASTY FOOD TOO. THEN BAN CARS THAT RUN ON PETROL! Yay, we hate freedom. We hate freedom. come on, chant!
Yeah fuck freedom in the ass!
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6854|CH/BR - in UK

jord wrote:

-MetaL* wrote:

Good riddance, I would lol pretty hard if this ever happened in America.
Yeah, fuck freedom! BAN ALCOHOL AND TASTY FOOD TOO. THEN BAN CARS THAT RUN ON PETROL! Yay, we hate freedom. We hate freedom. come on, chant!
How about the freedom to see your dad turn 50 without lung cancer? How about the freedom to breathe in fresh air? How about the freedom to not have to be scared of travelling in the underground after 21:00 because of drunk people? How about the freedom to not have to walk down piss-soaked streets, because a group of drunks figured it would be fine to go there?

One person's freedom starts where another's ends. You wouldn't agree with rich people's freedom to hold on to all of their money either, would you? Or a person's freedom not to work, just to get welfare?

-kon
jord
Member
+2,382|6982|The North, beyond the wall.

konfusion wrote:

jord wrote:

-MetaL* wrote:

Good riddance, I would lol pretty hard if this ever happened in America.
Yeah, fuck freedom! BAN ALCOHOL AND TASTY FOOD TOO. THEN BAN CARS THAT RUN ON PETROL! Yay, we hate freedom. We hate freedom. come on, chant!
How about the freedom to see your dad turn 50 without lung cancer?

He had the freedom of choice to stop or carry on whenever he wanted.

How about the freedom to breathe in fresh air?

... The world is a big place. Open a window maybe, go for a walk? Air is as fresh as where you are...


How about the freedom to not have to be scared of travelling in the underground after 21:00 because of drunk people?

Drunk people behaving in a threatening manner is a crime. Call the Police if you're scared.

How about the freedom to not have to walk down piss-soaked streets, because a group of drunks figured it would be fine to go there?

Once again this is a crime and if caught said people will be fined. Do what you do when you see dog shit(Hopefully), WALK AROUND IT.

One person's freedom starts where another's ends. You wouldn't agree with rich people's freedom to hold on to all of their money either, would you? Or a person's freedom not to work, just to get welfare?

If rich people earn money and pay their tax that's none of my business. People that abuse the welfare system will eventually be caught and fined, or even jailed nowadays...

-kon
See bold. People died so that we could make the choices we make today. Now they are being taken away. Businesses can't chose their own rules regarding smoking, which is disgusting and spits on freedom. Living where we live makes it easy to not value freedom.

Last edited by jord (2008-12-10 07:44:54)

konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6854|CH/BR - in UK

jord wrote:

See bold. People died so that we could make the choices we make today. Now they are being taken away. Businesses can't chose their own rules regarding smoking, which is disgusting and spits on freedom. Living where we live makes it easy to not value freedom.
I'm quite glad I live in this country - I still think England gives too much freedom in other areas, such as people being able to hide their faces completely, and apparently brothels are sort of legal (WTF?). I value my personal freedom, but I can see why it may be reduced if I start affecting other people. As you can see, they are cutting down on other areas, such alcohol - so why should tobacco be omitted? I don't mind people smoking outside, but you can't honestly expect me to regret the lack of smokers at my dinner table, can you? This measure isn't going to affect smokers directly - you know what you want when you walk in a store - so why complain about it? It's not directly impacting you at all, nor is it inhibiting your ability to buy a cigarette (or cigarette pack).

I don't think I'd complain if the UK did what Australia seems to be doing, and blocked illegal sites for downloads and such - not because I don't do it, but because I know it's wrong. (random note)

-kon
Flecco
iPod is broken.
+1,048|6969|NT, like Mick Dundee

Kon wtf is wrong with brothels?
Whoa... Can't believe these forums are still kicking.
konfusion
mostly afk
+480|6854|CH/BR - in UK

Flecco wrote:

Kon wtf is wrong with brothels?
What's wrong with it is how women are treated in them if no one checks. The police are now finally starting to do routine checks there, but it's a major part of the human trafficking business.

And its legality in this country is... weird. They're not legal, but then they are...? I don't know, it's messed up.

-kon
CammRobb
Banned
+1,510|6434|Carnoustie MASSIF
I want a cigarette now.

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