You people.
So funny.
"WHA WHA WHA"
"I WANT MY CAR INDUSTRY"
"WHA WHA WHA"
"I DON'T TO PAY THE WORKERS IN THE CAR INDUSTRY A DECENT WAGE"
"WHA WHA WHA"
Good luck with that.
You people.
So funny.
"WHA WHA WHA"
"I WANT MY CAR INDUSTRY"
"WHA WHA WHA"
"I DON'T TO PAY THE WORKERS IN THE CAR INDUSTRY A DECENT WAGE"
"WHA WHA WHA"
Good luck with that.
Yer right, and so be it, if the US auto makers decided to let this technology go by the waist side as the rest of the world embraces it, then the consumer has every right to follow which technology best suits them or their needs, it would appear that green cars is that technology of choice. Let them fail, someone will sweep up and carry on.TheAussieReaper wrote:
Good post and I agree with you. However there has been zero worthwhile incentive for the US auto industry to develop a green technology car from your Govt.lowing wrote:
Good points, however, if we are gunna live in a global economy and market then it is time that US industry starts to truely compete. I promise you if a person making 40 bucks an hour does not want their same job at 20 bucks an hour, there are people that will do it.TheAussieReaper wrote:
You don't understand that this means losing jobs in America, not just the short term, but for years - decades into the future.
And out sourcing leads to exactly the same problems, as competition from another source that can build it cheaper (which is NEVER equal to better) you lose the intellectual capital within your own country, pay for cheap labor, and you have a drop in quality and standards because it is made cheaper.
An open competition is a good thing lowing, but your own country taxes imported cheaper cars so that the set prices is comparable to your home made cars for a reason.
So that your home made cars are a viable alternative.
Why do you think it will be better cars, because the labor is cheaper?
As a global consumer, I will buy the best product for the best price. I am not interested in saving some dipshit tape peelers job of 40 bucks an hour, by paying 35,000 for a fuckin car.
We would not loose jobs in America if America built a car worth a fuck. Build a good product and it will sell, this allows you to build more, even charge more, add plants and add employees.
There has been no push from any sector in the US to develop a car that is affordable and can run on anything other than petrol.
The electric car was killed off before it was given a chance, along with any developments that would have seen world class cars being made in the US. You had the technology, industry and resources. Everything except incentive and motivation.
This might be the kick up the ass you need, but I think it's too little too late now that the industry is dead\dying.
Nope, I want people to EARN a decent wage, I do not agree with your world of entitled over earned income. I do not need any "luck with that", I am not in the auto industry.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
You people.
So funny.
"WHA WHA WHA"
"I WANT MY CAR INDUSTRY"
"WHA WHA WHA"
"I DON'T TO PAY THE WORKERS IN THE CAR INDUSTRY A DECENT WAGE"
"WHA WHA WHA"
Good luck with that.
Do you want people to make the things that you consume, or do you want to have to make them all yourself?
If you want the former, then you need to pay workers a decent wage, or you'll end up having to do the latter.
Oh, and it's "way side", by the way.
If you want the former, then you need to pay workers a decent wage, or you'll end up having to do the latter.
Oh, and it's "way side", by the way.
Yup I want people to make things that I consume, however, the market or a corrupt union, artifically over valuing an employees worth, sets their wages, not me.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
Do you want people to make the things that you consume, or do you want to have to make them all yourself?
If you want the former, then you need to pay workers a decent wage, or you'll end up having to do the latter.
Oh, and it's "way side", by the way.
Thanks for the correction.
Last edited by lowing (2008-11-16 19:35:53)
ya sorry.....40 bucks to watch a robot weld is a tad bit much.Scorpion0x17 wrote:
"I DON'T TO PAY THE WORKERS IN THE CAR INDUSTRY A DECENT WAGE"
For once, lowing and I agree on something.lowing wrote:
what will happen? Someone else will come in and take their places as the "big 3". No big deal.
In the airline industry the big 3 used to be TWA, Pan AM, and Eastern. All are gone now and guess what, the world didn't explode.
Let the market clear itself, goddamnit.
c'mon now, we have agreed before..........................haven't we?Turquoise wrote:
For once, lowing and I agree on something.lowing wrote:
what will happen? Someone else will come in and take their places as the "big 3". No big deal.
In the airline industry the big 3 used to be TWA, Pan AM, and Eastern. All are gone now and guess what, the world didn't explode.
Let the market clear itself, goddamnit.
shhhh, if anyone agrees with you too much they're labeled as a devil worshiper.lowing wrote:
c'mon now, we have agreed before..........................haven't we?Turquoise wrote:
For once, lowing and I agree on something.lowing wrote:
what will happen? Someone else will come in and take their places as the "big 3". No big deal.
In the airline industry the big 3 used to be TWA, Pan AM, and Eastern. All are gone now and guess what, the world didn't explode.
Let the market clear itself, goddamnit.
lol, I know, I guess eating little children who come into my yard looking for their ball, gives me a bad reputation. Who knew!Flaming_Maniac wrote:
shhhh, if anyone agrees with you too much they're labeled as a devil worshiper.lowing wrote:
c'mon now, we have agreed before..........................haven't we?Turquoise wrote:
For once, lowing and I agree on something.
Let the market clear itself, goddamnit.
I am just misunderstood that's all.
$40/hr isn't a "decent" wage
it's a fucking nice wage. considering most of it is automated, and assuming you get, say, a month's worth of UNPAID vacation you'd make about $70K/yr. You aren't gonna be Bill Gates but you'll be pretty decently off. Call it paid vacation (and this isn't including any overtime pay) and you're looking at about $76K a year.
and don't forget all the health care benefits, pension plans, and severance packages.
it's a fucking nice wage. considering most of it is automated, and assuming you get, say, a month's worth of UNPAID vacation you'd make about $70K/yr. You aren't gonna be Bill Gates but you'll be pretty decently off. Call it paid vacation (and this isn't including any overtime pay) and you're looking at about $76K a year.
and don't forget all the health care benefits, pension plans, and severance packages.
Last edited by Hurricane2k9 (2008-11-16 19:55:51)
It adds up to quite a nice little package that is worth more than the unskilled laborers have earned or worked for doesn't it?Hurricane2k9 wrote:
$40/hr isn't a "decent" wage
it's a fucking nice wage. considering most of it is automated, and assuming you get, say, a month's worth of UNPAID vacation you'd make about $70K/yr. You aren't gonna be Bill Gates but you'll be pretty decently off. Call it paid vacation (and this isn't including any overtime pay) and you're looking at about $76K a year.
and don't forget all the health care benefits, pension plans, and severance packages.
Gotta love a union, without them some people would actually have to EARN a living.
People always have, always will love handouts
I think im getting a GTI soon. For the price you can't beat it. The only thing comparable is like a ford focus hatchback and its not even a 1/4th of the gti.
lewl, I get paid 8.50 an hour to load trucks when its 110 degrees or -10 degrees, depending on the dateHurricane2k9 wrote:
$40/hr isn't a "decent" wage
it's a fucking nice wage. considering most of it is automated, and assuming you get, say, a month's worth of UNPAID vacation you'd make about $70K/yr. You aren't gonna be Bill Gates but you'll be pretty decently off. Call it paid vacation (and this isn't including any overtime pay) and you're looking at about $76K a year.
and don't forget all the health care benefits, pension plans, and severance packages.
i can has union?
Does that mean the new Chevy truck I always wanted is going to be super cheap!?!?!
Watching the launch this weekend made me think.. Americans are capable of launching spacecraft to the edge of our solar system. We can fly to and land sophisticated machines on other celestial bodies. But we cant build a descent vehicle that gets over 40 mpg? Of course we can. We just don't like them. There ugly. We've got to drive cars that "identify" who we are as individuals. What kind of ass backwards shit logic is that? buuutt ittts theee unions! What the fuck ever. It's our own vanity and unwillingness to move forward that has created the big 3 troubles. What are you going to do? Get mad at them for following the demand? GTFO ..Over compensating Suburban pricks who couldn't handle a Suzuki Samurai much less an h2 were picking their vehicles on the basis of how "cool" it made them feel. Blame yourselves. You didn't ask for it, you demanded it.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Funny how you say this, yet Honda, Toyota,etc has "folloed the demand" quite nicely. The big 3 have no ethic or pride in their products they produce. They produce junk compared to their European and Japanese counterparts, do not get mad that the American public has learned this early on and it is finally catching up to the big 3 and their union bed fellows.Kmarion wrote:
Watching the launch this weekend made me think.. Americans are capable of launching spacecraft to the edge of our solar system. We can fly to and land sophisticated machines on other celestial bodies. But we cant build a descent vehicle that gets over 40 mpg? Of course we can. We just don't like them. There ugly. We've got to drive cars that "identify" who we are as individuals. What kind of ass backwards shit logic is that? buuutt ittts theee unions! What the fuck ever. It's our own vanity and unwillingness to move forward that has created the big 3 troubles. What are you going to do? Get mad at them for following the demand? GTFO ..Over compensating Suburban pricks who couldn't handle a Suzuki Samurai much less an h2 were picking their vehicles on the basis of how "cool" it made them feel. Blame yourselves. You didn't ask for it, you demanded it.
nope, you do not need a union, you need to make yourself more marketable and rise up from your current position.S.Lythberg wrote:
lewl, I get paid 8.50 an hour to load trucks when its 110 degrees or -10 degrees, depending on the dateHurricane2k9 wrote:
$40/hr isn't a "decent" wage
it's a fucking nice wage. considering most of it is automated, and assuming you get, say, a month's worth of UNPAID vacation you'd make about $70K/yr. You aren't gonna be Bill Gates but you'll be pretty decently off. Call it paid vacation (and this isn't including any overtime pay) and you're looking at about $76K a year.
and don't forget all the health care benefits, pension plans, and severance packages.
i can has union?
Yes because the rest of the world started to catch on before America (Mainly because most of them were already paying too much more for fuel). Believe it or not there is a market outside of the United States. And foreign auto manufacturers have been chipping away at it for years now. Now that we're getting clued in on things to come the domestic auto industry is stuck without a paddle. Meanwhile the competitors have things already in place.lowing wrote:
Funny how you say this, yet Honda, Toyota,etc has "folloed the demand" quite nicely. The big 3 have no ethic or pride in their products they produce. They produce junk compared to their European and Japanese counterparts, do not get mad that the American public has learned this early on and it is finally catching up to the big 3 and their union bed fellows.Kmarion wrote:
Watching the launch this weekend made me think.. Americans are capable of launching spacecraft to the edge of our solar system. We can fly to and land sophisticated machines on other celestial bodies. But we cant build a descent vehicle that gets over 40 mpg? Of course we can. We just don't like them. There ugly. We've got to drive cars that "identify" who we are as individuals. What kind of ass backwards shit logic is that? buuutt ittts theee unions! What the fuck ever. It's our own vanity and unwillingness to move forward that has created the big 3 troubles. What are you going to do? Get mad at them for following the demand? GTFO ..Over compensating Suburban pricks who couldn't handle a Suzuki Samurai much less an h2 were picking their vehicles on the basis of how "cool" it made them feel. Blame yourselves. You didn't ask for it, you demanded it.
Funny how you ignore the basic facts like.. oh gee whiz if I make unreasonable demands when NEGOTIATING I might be unemployed in a couple years.. or hey, we can't collect any union dues from the now unemployed.. or hey there currently are plenty of other successful examples of bargain contract labor. These (big 3) are the same companies that boomed under contracted labor. No, lets forget about a few decades of poor management and incompetence. Lets forget about absolutely zero foresight and ingenuity. Lets forget about there being unquestionably no leadership in the big 3. Yes there are problems associated with unions. I've seen them first hand for years, and on both sides. But to blame an entire melt down which includes nonunion companies on them is just plain dumb. The Japanese built a different car. They made a car that was designed better. They catered to a market that was already feeling an energy crunch. Now, over the last couple years, and in a moment of financial desperation Americans are wanting that economic choice. Guess who's there? .. now that is funny.
Until we stop looking for scapegoats and start looking at the entire situation it's sayonara. Sadly most will not get this. It's easier to ignore so many other factors rather than to look at ourselves.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
I agree with most of your post. It is the incompetence of the managment that ignored the market demand and lack of foresight to evolve, I also blame them for giving into rediculous bullshit demands from non-skilled labor.Kmarion wrote:
Yes because the rest of the world started to catch on before America (Mainly because most of them were already paying too much more for fuel). Believe it or not there is a market outside of the United States. And foreign auto manufacturers have been chipping away at it for years now. Now that we're getting clued in on things to come the domestic auto industry is stuck without a paddle. Meanwhile the competitors have things already in place.lowing wrote:
Funny how you say this, yet Honda, Toyota,etc has "folloed the demand" quite nicely. The big 3 have no ethic or pride in their products they produce. They produce junk compared to their European and Japanese counterparts, do not get mad that the American public has learned this early on and it is finally catching up to the big 3 and their union bed fellows.Kmarion wrote:
Watching the launch this weekend made me think.. Americans are capable of launching spacecraft to the edge of our solar system. We can fly to and land sophisticated machines on other celestial bodies. But we cant build a descent vehicle that gets over 40 mpg? Of course we can. We just don't like them. There ugly. We've got to drive cars that "identify" who we are as individuals. What kind of ass backwards shit logic is that? buuutt ittts theee unions! What the fuck ever. It's our own vanity and unwillingness to move forward that has created the big 3 troubles. What are you going to do? Get mad at them for following the demand? GTFO ..Over compensating Suburban pricks who couldn't handle a Suzuki Samurai much less an h2 were picking their vehicles on the basis of how "cool" it made them feel. Blame yourselves. You didn't ask for it, you demanded it.
Funny how you ignore the basic facts like.. oh gee whiz if I make unreasonable demands when NEGOTIATING I might be unemployed in a couple years.. or hey, we can't collect any union dues from the now unemployed.. or hey there currently are plenty of other successful examples of bargain contract labor. These (big 3) are the same companies that boomed under contracted labor. No, lets forget about a few decades of poor management and incompetence. Lets forget about absolutely zero foresight and ingenuity. Lets forget about there being unquestionably no leadership in the big 3. Yes there are problems associated with unions. I've seen them first hand for years, and on both sides. But to blame an entire melt down which includes nonunion companies on them is just plain dumb. The Japanese built a different car. They made a car that was designed better. They catered to a market that was already feeling an energy crunch. Now, over the last couple years, and in a moment of financial desperation Americans are wanting that economic choice. Guess who's there? .. now that is funny.
Until we stop looking for scapegoats and start looking at the entire situation it's sayonara. Sadly most will not get this. It's easier to ignore so many other factors rather than to look at ourselves.
I do in fact think that unions are culpable too some extent. But the only thing I am hearing, on the radio etc, is how this is all simply the fault of unions. I'm just blown away by there unwillingness to look at the other obvious factors.
It's one of those rare things that angers me. If we don't acknowledge it we will no doubt repeat it.. provided we recover that is.
It's one of those rare things that angers me. If we don't acknowledge it we will no doubt repeat it.. provided we recover that is.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Yer right, I guess I am so full of disgust with unions I am almost happy to watch the entire industry collapse into its own greed and corruption.Kmarion wrote:
I do in fact think that unions are culpable too some extent. But the only thing I am hearing, on the radio etc, is how this is all simply the fault of unions. I'm just blown away by there unwillingness to look at the other obvious factors.
It's one of those rare things that angers me. If we don't acknowledge it we will no doubt repeat it.. provided we recover that is.
Its not that long ago that Henry Ford was having unionists taken out to the swamps and machine-gunned.
Just worth remembering.
Just worth remembering.
Fuck Israel
It's worth remembering fiction?Dilbert_X wrote:
Its not that long ago that Henry Ford was having unionists taken out to the swamps and machine-gunned.
Just worth remembering.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular