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2008-11-02 18:39:29
[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi
Why walk when you can dance?
+77|6893|sWEEDen
I find your lack of faith in your fellow human beeings quite amusing ....everyone on wealthfare are just beggars and they absolutely abuse the systems in anyway they can to get it to work in their favor, beacuse they are lazy and have choosen to be poor themselves?

I´m not saying you need a really big goverment and socialism to run your life, but done the right way it sure can help alot.
2008-11-02 18:48:14
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6957|USA

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi wrote:

Soo when we all are well educated and have started buisnesses and makes a load of cash......who then will pick the cotton for your brand new suite Lowing??

Give US Your Poor...bla bla bla bla soo they can earn us moore money....
First, I do not wear suits.

Second, throught out history there have always been people wh odid not care enough or were responsibile enough to do anything more than "just pick cotton" so I am not worried that the worlds population is all of a sudden giving birth to future astronauts.
So, you're saying that those people you depend on for your goods should live at the poverty line because they aren't educated or didn't have the same privileges you might have had?

Lowing, a large part of why your thinking is flawed is that you seem to have a great amount of disdain for anyone who is poor.  Not everyone is poor by choice.  Life isn't as simple as "if you work hard, you succeed."   Granted, working hard usually helps your chances of improving your life, but it's far from a guarantee.

As long as we have a system that depends on unskilled labor, the system should do what it can to help the poor.  It doesn't mean letting them live completely off of the system, but a certain amount of aid should be given.
Kinda harsh there Turquoise. No I never implied "people you depend on for your goods should live at the poverty line because they aren't educated or didn't have the same privileges you might have had". I do not need to imply anything, I will tell you. What I mean is, if you d onot want to wind up "picking cotton" then make sure you do not. Yup ya might have t owork harder than someone else, tough shit, that is life. If you do not want to be poor than make decisions in your life to guarentee you are not. In our country it is up to you if you succeed or fail.

I see, so are you suggesting that hard work, ambition motivation determination are not the keys to guarneteed success? That merely "luck" is all one needs, and you either have it or you do not? This is funny, I am told I do not live in the real world, yet I am the only one uses real world verbage like ambition, motivatation, determination, and all I here you sall talk about is, "luck", "destiny", and "karma".

I do not disdain the poor Turquoise, I disdain the poor's attitude that I am the reason THEY are poor and I need to give up my earned income to make it right.

Don't look now Turqoise, but there already is aid available to the poor. This howver has nothing t odo with Obama's plan to take my money to merely spread around and not to run govt.

Last edited by lowing (2008-11-02 18:53:54)

2008-11-02 18:51:26
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6957|USA

[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi wrote:

I find your lack of faith in your fellow human beeings quite amusing ....everyone on wealthfare are just beggars and they absolutely abuse the systems in anyway they can to get it to work in their favor, beacuse they are lazy and have choosen to be poor themselves?

I´m not saying you need a really big goverment and socialism to run your life, but done the right way it sure can help alot.
I find your faith in people ability to live a lifetime on welfare with a life time of excuses, equally amusing. Our govt. ( my tax dollars) is already funding projects to help people. This is not Obama plan. Again, he wants to take my money not for the functions of govt. but to  give away to make things "fair"
2008-11-02 19:07:28
[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi
Why walk when you can dance?
+77|6893|sWEEDen
I guess your social programs work differently then ours...

If you have no job and receive govermentfunding here, you have to register at the office for unemployed, and be ready to accept any kind of job that you are quallified to do. Activly take part of programs that increase your education and also activly search for jobs yourself, or the fundings will be canceled.

You also will be forced to show that you have no money by giving the goverment full access to all your bankinghistory and can´t own any cars or equipment at all in general.

Theese fundings are very minimal, rent payed for a small one-person appartment and around 400-500 dollars to pay for EVERYTHING else, even if you feed kids, this includes tickets for travelling to the office for the work you have to do there or to the other activities you have to enter, food, clothes and whatever you can think of. After a certain time you will have to work for the goverment, picking trash or something like that just to receive the funds at all. Now who would really like to live like this for a lifetime?

Your life is owned by the goverment since they pay your "salery"....this alone is a good motivation for most to actually help themselves in a good way, here no one lives on welfare for a long time since our programs are designed differently.

I guess this is why our opinions differ soo very much.

By "fair" doesn´t Obama really mean that all of you should pay taxes in ratio of what you actually earn?

Last edited by [F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi (2008-11-02 19:27:49)

2008-11-02 20:23:52
Deadmonkiefart
Floccinaucinihilipilificator
+177|7012
This is what socialism does to people

I find your faith  in government amusing.  People generally don't choose to be poor, but there are exceptions.  People want the biggest possible return for the smallest effort.  It's just human nature, and when looked at from a survival prospective, it makes perfect sense.  People who are not properly motivated to care for themselves will go to great lengths to avoid doing anything at all.  Allow me to provide you with some examples:

(These are all liberal friends and family members of mine.  They are good people who have been allowed to mooch off the rest of us by government institutions like welfare.)

Example #1
Musician who has her own band and makes a good amount of money.  Being a musician, she lies about how much money she makes so that doesn't have to pay taxes.  When she needs more money, she collects welfare.  She has taught her 3 children well.  Being musicians, they lie about the money they make and collect welfare when needed.  They are smart people with great potential, but our system has allowed them to become lazy.

Example#2
*Legal*Immigrant with three children who lives in section 8 housing and is scared to get a promotion or make any money, not wanting to lose her tax benefits and free housing.  The reason she has 3 children is to collect on the money.

Example#3
Joe the Plumber who has worked hard and taken risks nurturing his own business.  As he becomes more successful from his hard work, he loses more and more of his money to the government, which redistributes it to people like Example #1 and Example #3.

This sort of system is not conducive to success.  It instead feeds and perpetuates mediocrity.

And this is our Govt. in its current state.  Not our future one under Obama, who promisews to make it much worse.

Last edited by Deadmonkiefart (2008-11-02 20:27:29)

2008-11-03 00:49:34
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6861

lowing wrote:

1. I dunno Cam, and I really do not care, I live in the here and now, I do not live in the 30's. You did hit a key phrase Cam, compitition! It is compititon that keeps quality people employed to do quality work, it is also compitition that keeps prices down. But I guess in your world of entitlement no one needs to compete, we would all fair equally as well, regardless.
Here and now is shaping up to be a depression and the same fundamentals hold. You would be happy if up to 30% of your nation had to die just because of a temporary economic downturn? One that might be mitigated by altering taxation policy? And you pretend to care about soldiers! And get off your bullshittery with the 'your world of entitlement'. You're like a broken fucking record.

lowing wrote:

3. rediculous hell, Obama has stated as much, "SPREAD THE WEALTH AROUND". You know what a pain in the ass is? Your denial that everything you do not agree with is either, ignorant, or simply does not exist. You are one arrogant little Irishmen Cam.
I have tried to explain to you how 'spreading the wealth' around in this particular economic situation may be of benefit to all. But you cannot look to the long term or even into the medium term because you are the problem with today: those that can't see beyond today. You also fail to see that many people in the 'top 5%' don't actually work. They just move money around by phoning investment bankers. Much of the money they make is also built on nothing, as evidenced by the violent shudderings of the DOW Jones et al. And at the moment they aren't working - they're sitting on their money and doing nothing with it. I'm sure they can withstand some of their capital being used to bolster the economy - especially given that it will end up back in their hands anyway, given the basics of economics you seem to fail to understand. Thankfully I live in a nation that understands at least some of these things. And luckily for you it appears that most Americans are waking up to these realities also. Enjoy Tuesday night.

lowing wrote:

4. I see, you basically you are saying that your company holds govt. contracts, Ooops. I am not a hypocrite Cam, my views have always supported our troops and their efforts in this war. Our view do differ somewhat Cam, I accept responsibility for my self and my actions, I expect to do this without govt. interference. 

Ummmmmmmm Cam, I did not say that "all black people residing in America voting for Obama because they 'want handouts'" . I said the black community is turning out in record numbers to vote for the black candidate. Not because of issues but because he is black.

Remember your little lecture about exaggerations or "inserting something completely off the wall". Well, you are doing it you arrogant ass little cuss.
lol @ diversionary tactic. "I support the troops!" lol. You ultimately get paid by the government. And that is hypocrisy. Not a man of principles. You're out there to get paid and you wouldn't be out there otherwise. You don't even believe in the fucking mission because you said it yourself: you hate Islam - and that country you are supposedly rebuilding is an Islamic nation. All muddled up self-contradictory hypocrisy. You also show scant regard for your fellow Americans, irrespective of how hard they work and the difficulties they face in the current downturn - why should I believe you care about about a pointless governmentally-sanctioned military action in a far flung desert?? SImply put: if it wasn't for your government, you would not be in Iraq.


"Do you find it difficult to beleive that those that for him are doing so because they think a brother in the white house will save them and shower them with their s orichly deserved entitlement?" - I don't think I need to add anymore to this comment. It stands alone.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-11-03 01:10:02)

2008-11-03 04:36:51
GorillaTicTacs
Member
+231|6679|Kyiv, Ukraine

Deadmonkiefart wrote:

Example#2
*Legal*Immigrant with three children who lives in section 8 housing and is scared to get a promotion or make any money, not wanting to lose her tax benefits and free housing.  The reason she has 3 children is to collect on the money.
Just a side note, not meaning to de-rail...

But does anyone else find it amusing that the same party that advocates that sex education, abortion, and birth control be abolished will sit there and bitch about the consequences of such policies?

Also, does anyone find it completely assinine that there are people in this world that assume anyone that has X+ number of kids is just doing it to steal their neighbor's hard-earned wealth?  The reason she has 3 kids is because she has 3 kids, by want or accident.  I'm almost positive she wasn't thinking about milking the piddly government welfare payouts when she was doing the do.  Besides, if this is how you feel about your "liberal friends", I'd hate to see how you handle your "conservative enemies".
2008-11-03 09:18:23
destruktion_6143
Was ist Loos?
+154|6932|Canada
Why do people automatically think socialism is a bad thing? is it bc of the stigma of socialism=communism? bc that is not true at all.
2008-11-03 09:31:46
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6957|USA

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

1. I dunno Cam, and I really do not care, I live in the here and now, I do not live in the 30's. You did hit a key phrase Cam, compitition! It is compititon that keeps quality people employed to do quality work, it is also compitition that keeps prices down. But I guess in your world of entitlement no one needs to compete, we would all fair equally as well, regardless.
Here and now is shaping up to be a depression and the same fundamentals hold. You would be happy if up to 30% of your nation had to die just because of a temporary economic downturn? One that might be mitigated by altering taxation policy? And you pretend to care about soldiers! And get off your bullshittery with the 'your world of entitlement'. You're like a broken fucking record.

lowing wrote:

3. rediculous hell, Obama has stated as much, "SPREAD THE WEALTH AROUND". You know what a pain in the ass is? Your denial that everything you do not agree with is either, ignorant, or simply does not exist. You are one arrogant little Irishmen Cam.
I have tried to explain to you how 'spreading the wealth' around in this particular economic situation may be of benefit to all. But you cannot look to the long term or even into the medium term because you are the problem with today: those that can't see beyond today. You also fail to see that many people in the 'top 5%' don't actually work. They just move money around by phoning investment bankers. Much of the money they make is also built on nothing, as evidenced by the violent shudderings of the DOW Jones et al. And at the moment they aren't working - they're sitting on their money and doing nothing with it. I'm sure they can withstand some of their capital being used to bolster the economy - especially given that it will end up back in their hands anyway, given the basics of economics you seem to fail to understand. Thankfully I live in a nation that understands at least some of these things. And luckily for you it appears that most Americans are waking up to these realities also. Enjoy Tuesday night.

lowing wrote:

4. I see, you basically you are saying that your company holds govt. contracts, Ooops. I am not a hypocrite Cam, my views have always supported our troops and their efforts in this war. Our view do differ somewhat Cam, I accept responsibility for my self and my actions, I expect to do this without govt. interference. 

Ummmmmmmm Cam, I did not say that "all black people residing in America voting for Obama because they 'want handouts'" . I said the black community is turning out in record numbers to vote for the black candidate. Not because of issues but because he is black.

Remember your little lecture about exaggerations or "inserting something completely off the wall". Well, you are doing it you arrogant ass little cuss.
lol @ diversionary tactic. "I support the troops!" lol. You ultimately get paid by the government. And that is hypocrisy. Not a man of principles. You're out there to get paid and you wouldn't be out there otherwise. You don't even believe in the fucking mission because you said it yourself: you hate Islam - and that country you are supposedly rebuilding is an Islamic nation. All muddled up self-contradictory hypocrisy. You also show scant regard for your fellow Americans, irrespective of how hard they work and the difficulties they face in the current downturn - why should I believe you care about about a pointless governmentally-sanctioned military action in a far flung desert?? SImply put: if it wasn't for your government, you would not be in Iraq.


"Do you find it difficult to beleive that those that for him are doing so because they think a brother in the white house will save them and shower them with their s orichly deserved entitlement?" - I don't think I need to add anymore to this comment. It stands alone.
1. Hey drama queen, no one is dying because of this " economic crisis". He isn't altering shit, he is stating that he will take from someone who has earned money, and give it to someone who he thinks needs it more. This is not the function of govt in America Cam. What makes you think I do not car eabout our troops? Where in the world did that come from? Our troops contribute to society and protects while doing so. Does the word entitlement somehow strike a nerve Cam? That is exactly what American are turning into. A society of entitlement over a society of opportunity.

3. Key word again Cam, THEIR capital NOT yours or mine. Our govt. was never intended to be that powerful.

Also, so what how they made their money, what business is it of mine or yours if it was old or new or found money?

4. I get paid by a private company. If you wanna split hairs, ULTIMATELY we all are getting paid by the govt. I also support our troops the work I do has directly saved 6 lives. as I have state before you can scream until the cows come home, you are not going to shake the pride I take in that fact. Yer right I do hate Islam, and I hate it so much that they can keep right here in the ME where it belongs.

The fact is this election will have a record turn out by the black community for one reason. The black candidate. This is not racist, this is fact.
2008-11-03 09:34:34
destruktion_6143
Was ist Loos?
+154|6932|Canada

lowing wrote:

The fact is this election will have a record turn out by the black community for one reason. The black candidate. This is not racist, this is fact.
that is quite true. and in part, that is kind of racist on the behalf of the blacks. on the other hand, blacks loved Clinton, and he was white...
2008-11-03 09:37:15
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6957|USA

[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi wrote:

I guess your social programs work differently then ours...

If you have no job and receive govermentfunding here, you have to register at the office for unemployed, and be ready to accept any kind of job that you are quallified to do. Activly take part of programs that increase your education and also activly search for jobs yourself, or the fundings will be canceled.

You also will be forced to show that you have no money by giving the goverment full access to all your bankinghistory and can´t own any cars or equipment at all in general.

Theese fundings are very minimal, rent payed for a small one-person appartment and around 400-500 dollars to pay for EVERYTHING else, even if you feed kids, this includes tickets for travelling to the office for the work you have to do there or to the other activities you have to enter, food, clothes and whatever you can think of. After a certain time you will have to work for the goverment, picking trash or something like that just to receive the funds at all. Now who would really like to live like this for a lifetime?

Your life is owned by the goverment since they pay your "salery"....this alone is a good motivation for most to actually help themselves in a good way, here no one lives on welfare for a long time since our programs are designed differently.

I guess this is why our opinions differ soo very much.

By "fair" doesn´t Obama really mean that all of you should pay taxes in ratio of what you actually earn?
Agreed, we are comparing apples and oranges apparently regarding social programs


Obama has said it, he wants to "spread the wealth around" this can only mean 1 thing. To take money from someone, not for the purposes of running the govt. but for the purpose of the govt. deciding that it has someone who needs it more than the person who earned it.
By "fair" doesn´t Obama really mean that all of you should pay taxes in ratio of what you actually earn?
2008-11-03 09:49:27
God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6649|tropical regions of london
That GI Bill is whats keeping me alive right now
2008-11-03 10:05:22
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6861

lowing wrote:

1. Hey drama queen, no one is dying because of this " economic crisis". He isn't altering shit, he is stating that he will take from someone who has earned money, and give it to someone who he thinks needs it more. This is not the function of govt in America Cam. What makes you think I do not car eabout our troops? Where in the world did that come from? Our troops contribute to society and protects while doing so. Does the word entitlement somehow strike a nerve Cam? That is exactly what American are turning into. A society of entitlement over a society of opportunity.
Give it time lowing, give it time. Bottom line is this: get a fucking clue about economics and the circulation of capital because you evidently have none. Take a course or something. Try learning. So you care about the troops because they 'contribute to society'? Well what about all those people who are hoarding their capital (and preparing to sit on it for the long haul) and as a consequence putting people out of jobs, i.e. being detrimental to society? So many contradictions. lol. If socialism was a society of entitlement the unemployment rate in the EU wouldn't be within 1% of that of the US. Period.

lowing wrote:

3. Key word again Cam, THEIR capital NOT yours or mine. Our govt. was never intended to be that powerful.

Also, so what how they made their money, what business is it of mine or yours if it was old or new or found money?
Contributing to society. Being productive. Spurring growth. Things I admire. Betting on shares dropping in value? Shipping jobs out to India and China? Repackaging debt and assigning fake credit ratings to it? Not so admirable. It's all of our business because it can affect us all.

PS Your government was intended to be that powerful - or is it written down in your consitution otherwise? I thought it was empowered to tax the populace, perhaps I'm wrong.

lowing wrote:

4. I get paid by a private company. If you wanna split hairs, ULTIMATELY we all are getting paid by the govt. I also support our troops the work I do has directly saved 6 lives. as I have state before you can scream until the cows come home, you are not going to shake the pride I take in that fact. Yer right I do hate Islam, and I hate it so much that they can keep right here in the ME where it belongs.

The fact is this election will have a record turn out by the black community for one reason. The black candidate. This is not racist, this is fact.
Be proud of your government contract. Without the government you would never have made it to Iraq, no doubt creaming the dollars in. Some of the consultants at work (Parsons-Brinckerhoff) got offered work in Iraq - the money was very impressive I have to say. They turned it down though (not through any ideological reason, just because of the fact they would be endangering their lives). Just think if old Bushie had never invaded? You'd probably be suffering diarrhoea out in Afghanistan or not receiving the risk money you no doubt receive out in US-government invaded Iraq... lol. Picturing you in amongst all those Muslims is quite amusing. Was your contract one of those no-bid contracts? One of the ones that meant your government ensured that you would get the contract?

I really don't see why people exercising their vote, irrespective of their colour, is something to be derided. Do you think they shouldn't vote?

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-11-03 10:26:17)

2008-11-03 11:10:36
[F7F7]KiNG_KaDaFFHi
Why walk when you can dance?
+77|6893|sWEEDen
I will come back with a good response when the effect of the scotch deceases....
2008-11-03 15:45:34
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6711|North Carolina

lowing wrote:

Kinda harsh there Turquoise. No I never implied "people you depend on for your goods should live at the poverty line because they aren't educated or didn't have the same privileges you might have had". I do not need to imply anything, I will tell you. What I mean is, if you d onot want to wind up "picking cotton" then make sure you do not. Yup ya might have t owork harder than someone else, tough shit, that is life. If you do not want to be poor than make decisions in your life to guarentee you are not. In our country it is up to you if you succeed or fail.

I see, so are you suggesting that hard work, ambition motivation determination are not the keys to guarneteed success? That merely "luck" is all one needs, and you either have it or you do not? This is funny, I am told I do not live in the real world, yet I am the only one uses real world verbage like ambition, motivatation, determination, and all I here you sall talk about is, "luck", "destiny", and "karma".

I do not disdain the poor Turquoise, I disdain the poor's attitude that I am the reason THEY are poor and I need to give up my earned income to make it right.

Don't look now Turqoise, but there already is aid available to the poor. This howver has nothing t odo with Obama's plan to take my money to merely spread around and not to run govt.
...but you do realize that, in order for you to get the goods and services you need, you will always need people willing to fill low-paying jobs.

Half of our livelihoods revolve around cheap goods made by cheap labor.  Now, obviously, if the labor making these goods is all overseas, we don't have the responsibility to take care of them, but we still have plenty of cheap labor here as well.

I guess what I'm getting at is...  it's very dangerous to take the poor for granted.  Yes, there are social programs out there, but we need to improve them.
2008-11-04 00:05:24
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6957|USA

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

1. Hey drama queen, no one is dying because of this " economic crisis". He isn't altering shit, he is stating that he will take from someone who has earned money, and give it to someone who he thinks needs it more. This is not the function of govt in America Cam. What makes you think I do not car eabout our troops? Where in the world did that come from? Our troops contribute to society and protects while doing so. Does the word entitlement somehow strike a nerve Cam? That is exactly what American are turning into. A society of entitlement over a society of opportunity.
Give it time lowing, give it time. Bottom line is this: get a fucking clue about economics and the circulation of capital because you evidently have none. Take a course or something. Try learning. So you care about the troops because they 'contribute to society'? Well what about all those people who are hoarding their capital (and preparing to sit on it for the long haul) and as a consequence putting people out of jobs, i.e. being detrimental to society? So many contradictions. lol. If socialism was a society of entitlement the unemployment rate in the EU wouldn't be within 1% of that of the US. Period.

lowing wrote:

3. Key word again Cam, THEIR capital NOT yours or mine. Our govt. was never intended to be that powerful.

Also, so what how they made their money, what business is it of mine or yours if it was old or new or found money?
Contributing to society. Being productive. Spurring growth. Things I admire. Betting on shares dropping in value? Shipping jobs out to India and China? Repackaging debt and assigning fake credit ratings to it? Not so admirable. It's all of our business because it can affect us all.

PS Your government was intended to be that powerful - or is it written down in your Constitution otherwise? I thought it was empowered to tax the populace, perhaps I'm wrong.

lowing wrote:

4. I get paid by a private company. If you wanna split hairs, ULTIMATELY we all are getting paid by the govt. I also support our troops the work I do has directly saved 6 lives. as I have state before you can scream until the cows come home, you are not going to shake the pride I take in that fact. Yer right I do hate Islam, and I hate it so much that they can keep right here in the ME where it belongs.

The fact is this election will have a record turn out by the black community for one reason. The black candidate. This is not racist, this is fact.
Be proud of your government contract. Without the government you would never have made it to Iraq, no doubt creaming the dollars in. Some of the consultants at work (Parsons-Brinckerhoff) got offered work in Iraq - the money was very impressive I have to say. They turned it down though (not through any ideological reason, just because of the fact they would be endangering their lives). Just think if old Bushie had never invaded? You'd probably be suffering diarrhoea out in Afghanistan or not receiving the risk money you no doubt receive out in US-government invaded Iraq... lol. Picturing you in amongst all those Muslims is quite amusing. Was your contract one of those no-bid contracts? One of the ones that meant your government ensured that you would get the contract?

I really don't see why people exercising their vote, irrespective of their colour, is something to be derided. Do you think they shouldn't vote?
1.. I have all the "clue" I need Cam, I was clued before I finished school that in order to succeed you need a foundation to build experience, education, reputation and hard work on. If you do not do these things and sit around waiting for someone like Obama to come along and "save you", you will have plenty of time to find someone to blame for your dilemma. I have worked, I have earned, and I have advanced. I can afford my bills and my house. What more do I need to know? Perhaps it is those people who choose not to do those things that need the clue Cam.

3. The rich contribute t society a helluva lot more than the poor does Cam, sorry to burst your bubble. They provide the funding and the resources for the rest of us to build a future on for ourselves. Or are you still insisting that it is the poor that you apply to when looking for a job? Again, anyone who is not looking for someone to blame for their problems is not having a problem.

4. It was never my intention t o"make it to Iraq" Cam, I work for a company and the project  I was assigned took me to Iraq as well as Germany and all over the states. By next year I will more than likely wind up in Afghanistan as well. I am proud of my work and you can snub it all day long, in fact I take great joy knowing that what I do irritates you so much so go hug a tree you liberal socialist govt. lapdog.

5. I love people exercising their right to vote. I just wish they would vote on issues instead of skin color. Sorry if that makes me a racist, but again I find myself rather enjoying being so reprehensible to a lapdog such as yourself. It is a reaffirmation that I am correct.
2008-11-04 00:10:58
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6957|USA

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

Kinda harsh there Turquoise. No I never implied "people you depend on for your goods should live at the poverty line because they aren't educated or didn't have the same privileges you might have had". I do not need to imply anything, I will tell you. What I mean is, if you d onot want to wind up "picking cotton" then make sure you do not. Yup ya might have t owork harder than someone else, tough shit, that is life. If you do not want to be poor than make decisions in your life to guarentee you are not. In our country it is up to you if you succeed or fail.

I see, so are you suggesting that hard work, ambition motivation determination are not the keys to guarneteed success? That merely "luck" is all one needs, and you either have it or you do not? This is funny, I am told I do not live in the real world, yet I am the only one uses real world verbage like ambition, motivatation, determination, and all I here you sall talk about is, "luck", "destiny", and "karma".

I do not disdain the poor Turquoise, I disdain the poor's attitude that I am the reason THEY are poor and I need to give up my earned income to make it right.

Don't look now Turqoise, but there already is aid available to the poor. This howver has nothing t odo with Obama's plan to take my money to merely spread around and not to run govt.
...but you do realize that, in order for you to get the goods and services you need, you will always need people willing to fill low-paying jobs.

Half of our livelihoods revolve around cheap goods made by cheap labor.  Now, obviously, if the labor making these goods is all overseas, we don't have the responsibility to take care of them, but we still have plenty of cheap labor here as well.

I guess what I'm getting at is...  it's very dangerous to take the poor for granted.  Yes, there are social programs out there, but we need to improve them.
1. There will always be poor people Turquoise, the key is to make sure it isn't YOU. I will make you a deal, I will not take the poor for granted, if the poor does not take me for granted. I am guessing that, that deal will not be acceptable.

You are are correct, we do need to revamp the social programs in America. Kicking every worthless piece of shit to the curb would be a good place to start. Leaving more money for those that truly deserve the help.
2008-11-04 00:24:43
DonFck
Hibernator
+3,227|6937|Finland

lowing wrote:

1.. I have all the "clue" I need Cam, I was clued before I finished school that in order to succeed you need a foundation to build experience, education, reputation and hard work on. If you do not do these things and sit around waiting for someone like Obama to come along and "save you", you will have plenty of time to find someone to blame for your dilemma. I have worked, I have earned, and I have advanced. I can afford my bills and my house. What more do I need to know? Perhaps it is those people who choose not to do those things that need the clue Cam.
What you don't seem to understand, is that even if you don't need to be born with a gold spoon in your mouth in order to succeed, you still need a spoon. Get the analogy? Welfare and social security exist so that those less fortunate than you may still have a chance to pick themselves up and achieve something -> contributing to the society that picked them up. If you think it's someones personal choice to be so poor that you can't pay your bills, let alone get yourself through school, then you my good sir have some serious tunnel vision.

lowing wrote:

3. The rich contribute t society a helluva lot more than the poor does Cam, sorry to burst your bubble. They provide the funding and the resources for the rest of us to build a future on for ourselves. Or are you still insisting that it is the poor that you apply to when looking for a job? Again, anyone who is not looking for someone to blame for their problems is not having a problem.
Of course they do. They're rich. How can you contribute from $ 0? On a visit to Moscow (N.b. a capitalist country) I saw a bunch of homeless people outside the Leningradski Station. I asked our Russian sales agent "What happens to these people in the winter?", in my naive hopes of hearing something in return of a homeless shelter or something. Instead he replied "They die". Would that be a good final solution to your problem with the "leeches of this society"?


End notes: Notice how everything you say revolvs around "me", instead of "us". That if anything, is unpatriotic.

/end aggressive over-the-top rant.
I need around tree fiddy.
2008-11-04 00:43:28
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6861

lowing wrote:

1.. I have all the "clue" I need Cam, I was clued before I finished school that in order to succeed you need a foundation to build experience, education, reputation and hard work on. If you do not do these things and sit around waiting for someone like Obama to come along and "save you", you will have plenty of time to find someone to blame for your dilemma. I have worked, I have earned, and I have advanced. I can afford my bills and my house. What more do I need to know? Perhaps it is those people who choose not to do those things that need the clue Cam.
Revel in your ignorance then. Announcing it to be a good thing that you haven't bothered to learn about economics, about how a national economy actually works, about how capitalism actually works and about what money really is sums it up really.

lowing wrote:

3. The rich contribute t society a helluva lot more than the poor does Cam, sorry to burst your bubble. They provide the funding and the resources for the rest of us to build a future on for ourselves. Or are you still insisting that it is the poor that you apply to when looking for a job? Again, anyone who is not looking for someone to blame for their problems is not having a problem.
If you knew a fucking thing about economics and capitalism then you would realise that labour and capital are interdependent and each cannot progress without the other. Shooting labour in the foot and leaving it to wither and die for an extended period isn't going to do capital any favours. And it certainly won't do labour any favours. I don't expect you to understand this. Each element benefits the other. It is in the interest of capitalists at this moment in time to reinvigorate labour in order that capitalists can continue to expand their capital again. Newsflash: your economy - demand for capitalists produce - is contracting. You are content to helplessly feel the impact of every whim that those who possess capital have, totally regardless of their corruption and willingness to export jobs. Government is in the business of maintaining an economically growing harmonious society. Allowing those with no allegiance but to themselves to call all the shots is naive and quite frankly stupid. We don't elect CEOs. We don't elect venture capitalists. If you like being helpless so be it. I think everyone should be entitled to a job and if those willing to work can't then that must be addressed through governmental action.

lowing wrote:

4. It was never my intention t o"make it to Iraq" Cam, I work for a company and the project  I was assigned took me to Iraq as well as Germany and all over the states. By next year I will more than likely wind up in Afghanistan as well. I am proud of my work and you can snub it all day long, in fact I take great joy knowing that what I do irritates you so much so go hug a tree you liberal socialist govt. lapdog.
Ah, so you will be happy that Obama intends to bolster the Afghanistan effort. Thank goodness for government, eh... lol

lowing wrote:

5. I love people exercising their right to vote. I just wish they would vote on issues instead of skin color. Sorry if that makes me a racist, but again I find myself rather enjoying being so reprehensible to a lapdog such as yourself. It is a reaffirmation that I am correct.
If you love it then embrace it. In the same way that many midwestern hick nobody Republicans will vote for McCain because of that vacuous retard he picked as vice president many black people will vote for Obama. I don't like that - I agree that it is black racism. But that is their prerogative.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-11-04 04:14:54)

2008-11-04 08:43:45
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6957|USA

CameronPoe wrote:

lowing wrote:

1.. I have all the "clue" I need Cam, I was clued before I finished school that in order to succeed you need a foundation to build experience, education, reputation and hard work on. If you do not do these things and sit around waiting for someone like Obama to come along and "save you", you will have plenty of time to find someone to blame for your dilemma. I have worked, I have earned, and I have advanced. I can afford my bills and my house. What more do I need to know? Perhaps it is those people who choose not to do those things that need the clue Cam.
Revel in your ignorance then. Announcing it to be a good thing that you haven't bothered to learn about economics, about how a national economy actually works, about how capitalism actually works and about what money really is sums it up really.

lowing wrote:

3. The rich contribute t society a helluva lot more than the poor does Cam, sorry to burst your bubble. They provide the funding and the resources for the rest of us to build a future on for ourselves. Or are you still insisting that it is the poor that you apply to when looking for a job? Again, anyone who is not looking for someone to blame for their problems is not having a problem.
If you knew a fucking thing about economics and capitalism then you would realise that labour and capital are interdependent and each cannot progress without the other. Shooting labour in the foot and leaving it to wither and die for an extended period isn't going to do capital any favours. And it certainly won't do labour any favours. I don't expect you to understand this. Each element benefits the other. It is in the interest of capitalists at this moment in time to reinvigorate labour in order that capitalists can continue to expand their capital again. Newsflash: your economy - demand for capitalists produce - is contracting. You are content to helplessly feel the impact of every whim that those who possess capital have, totally regardless of their corruption and willingness to export jobs. Government is in the business of maintaining an economically growing harmonious society. Allowing those with no allegiance but to themselves to call all the shots is naive and quite frankly stupid. We don't elect CEOs. We don't elect venture capitalists. If you like being helpless so be it. I think everyone should be entitled to a job and if those willing to work can't then that must be addressed through governmental action.

lowing wrote:

4. It was never my intention t o"make it to Iraq" Cam, I work for a company and the project  I was assigned took me to Iraq as well as Germany and all over the states. By next year I will more than likely wind up in Afghanistan as well. I am proud of my work and you can snub it all day long, in fact I take great joy knowing that what I do irritates you so much so go hug a tree you liberal socialist govt. lapdog.
Ah, so you will be happy that Obama intends to bolster the Afghanistan effort. Thank goodness for government, eh... lol

lowing wrote:

5. I love people exercising their right to vote. I just wish they would vote on issues instead of skin color. Sorry if that makes me a racist, but again I find myself rather enjoying being so reprehensible to a lapdog such as yourself. It is a reaffirmation that I am correct.
If you love it then embrace it. In the same way that many midwestern hick nobody Republicans will vote for McCain because of that vacuous retard he picked as vice president many black people will vote for Obama. I don't like that - I agree that it is black racism. But that is their prerogative.
1. I have never made any bones about it Cam, I do not talk about global economics for a few reasons, the least of which is I simply do not care nor do I pretend to, care or understand it. You, of course the arrogant, all knowing Cam, know everything about everything and all before ya hit 30. Not Bad!. I try to keep my posts in this thread about the OP, and Obamas socialist agenda to take money from a person who earned it and give it to someone who he thinks should have it more than you. I speak of how I do not want to live in a socialist country because I choose to work for myself instead of the collective. If I want to be selfish I should be allowed, after all it is my money. I do not like someone telling me what I am supposed to do with my money. Anyway, back to economics, there is not a single person who is working and NOT living beyond their means, who is in trouble. I happen to be one of those people now. I got myself out without any social programs. Do not live beyond your means and in massive debt and you will have no problem.

What you are trying to do is tell me because I am not an economics major that there is no way I could understand what Obama is doing and why. This is your arrogant ass govt. lapdog socialism coming out. Nothing more. By the way, I think your govt. says it is feeding time, so go see what is in your bowl.

3. I do know that labor and managment co-exist Cam, I know because I am a part of this relationship, you know who isn't? People on who do not work. Go lecture them.

"I think everyone should be entitled to a job and if those willing to work can't then that must be addressed through governmental action." <-----NO Cam, you are not "ENTITLED" to shit except the rights and freedoms guarenteed by our Constituion. I thought you did not like that word entitlement yet you do nothing except prove my point. You feel a sense of entitlement for people. I feel a sense of opportunity for the people.


4. I will be happy when this war is won and our troops can come home. Until then I will do what I can to improve their systems to make their jobs safer and even save more of their lives.

5. Whatever, as long as we agree.
2008-11-04 08:49:57
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6957|USA

DonFck wrote:

lowing wrote:

1.. I have all the "clue" I need Cam, I was clued before I finished school that in order to succeed you need a foundation to build experience, education, reputation and hard work on. If you do not do these things and sit around waiting for someone like Obama to come along and "save you", you will have plenty of time to find someone to blame for your dilemma. I have worked, I have earned, and I have advanced. I can afford my bills and my house. What more do I need to know? Perhaps it is those people who choose not to do those things that need the clue Cam.
What you don't seem to understand, is that even if you don't need to be born with a gold spoon in your mouth in order to succeed, you still need a spoon. Get the analogy? Welfare and social security exist so that those less fortunate than you may still have a chance to pick themselves up and achieve something -> contributing to the society that picked them up. If you think it's someones personal choice to be so poor that you can't pay your bills, let alone get yourself through school, then you my good sir have some serious tunnel vision.

lowing wrote:

3. The rich contribute t society a helluva lot more than the poor does Cam, sorry to burst your bubble. They provide the funding and the resources for the rest of us to build a future on for ourselves. Or are you still insisting that it is the poor that you apply to when looking for a job? Again, anyone who is not looking for someone to blame for their problems is not having a problem.
Of course they do. They're rich. How can you contribute from $ 0? On a visit to Moscow (N.b. a capitalist country) I saw a bunch of homeless people outside the Leningradski Station. I asked our Russian sales agent "What happens to these people in the winter?", in my naive hopes of hearing something in return of a homeless shelter or something. Instead he replied "They die". Would that be a good final solution to your problem with the "leeches of this society"?


End notes: Notice how everything you say revolvs around "me", instead of "us". That if anything, is unpatriotic.

/end aggressive over-the-top rant.
1. Oh is this analogy kinda like, "leading a horse t owater but can't make him drink", or "teaching to fish instead of giving a fish". There are programs in place a lot of them. I do not agree with Obama's plan to literally take money from one person, not for the purposes of running the govt., but to give it to someone else who he thinks is entitled to it more than the person who earned it. If ya wanna contribute defend that postition. Oh, and the "spoon" you want to referance is found in the Constituion of the US. All Americans have a "spoon", it is up to the individual if they want to use it.


3. Already said, social programs are in place. Now cue the horse to water but can't make him drink analogy.
2008-11-04 09:01:18
IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|7048|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann
i'd say your wee war profiteering caper will be finishing soon Lowing. Then I hope President Obama Taxes the fuck out of your ill gotten gains.. I love irony..
2008-11-04 09:10:43
TimmmmaaaaH
Damn, I... had something for this
+725|6745|Brisbane, Australia

Perhaps some are taking the "spreading the wealth" a bit more literally than others.
https://bf3s.com/sigs/5e6a35c97adb20771c7b713312c0307c23a7a36a.png
2008-11-04 09:13:32
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6861

lowing wrote:

1. I have never made any bones about it Cam, I do not talk about global economics for a few reasons, the least of which is I simply do not care nor do I pretend to, care or understand it. You, of course the arrogant, all knowing Cam, know everything about everything and all before ya hit 30. Not Bad!. I try to keep my posts in this thread about the OP, and Obamas socialist agenda to take money from a person who earned it and give it to someone who he thinks should have it more than you. I speak of how I do not want to live in a socialist country because I choose to work for myself instead of the collective. If I want to be selfish I should be allowed, after all it is my money. I do not like someone telling me what I am supposed to do with my money. Anyway, back to economics, there is not a single person who is working and NOT living beyond their means, who is in trouble. I happen to be one of those people now. I got myself out without any social programs. Do not live beyond your means and in massive debt and you will have no problem.

What you are trying to do is tell me because I am not an economics major that there is no way I could understand what Obama is doing and why. This is your arrogant ass govt. lapdog socialism coming out. Nothing more. By the way, I think your govt. says it is feeding time, so go see what is in your bowl.
Keep on revelling. Oh and ftr we weren't talking about global economics - a point clarified earlier - we were talking about national economics. Go look for your next feeding bowl in a distant dusty nation upon whom your government decides to rain down bombs. It's great when you don't have to rely on the domestic economy of your own nation to keep earning, isn't it? I'll keep working at what I do best and try to adhere to my principles. My promotion kicks in on November 14th. Yay!

lowing wrote:

3. I do know that labor and managment co-exist Cam, I know because I am a part of this relationship, you know who isn't? People on who do not work. Go lecture them.

"I think everyone should be entitled to a job and if those willing to work can't then that must be addressed through governmental action." <-----NO Cam, you are not "ENTITLED" to shit except the rights and freedoms guarenteed by our Constituion. I thought you did not like that word entitlement yet you do nothing except prove my point. You feel a sense of entitlement for people. I feel a sense of opportunity for the people.
I think the government has a duty to provide opportunity to the populace. The populace are ENTITLED to the opportunity to work and feed themselves and their families. Whatever it takes to facilitate bringing forward that opportunity should be the task of the government. I know you disagree with this. You prefer to rely on the whims of the job exporters and corrupt oligarchs and lobbyists who buy off elected officials.

lowing wrote:

4. I will be happy when this war is won and our troops can come home. Until then I will do what I can to improve their systems to make their jobs safer and even save more of their lives.
And keeping your arm outstretched to the incumbent and incoming President and Defence Minister.... How do you measure a 'win', pray tell? lol

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-11-04 11:39:52)

2008-11-04 09:31:57
DonFck
Hibernator
+3,227|6937|Finland

lowing wrote:

I do not agree with Obama's plan to literally take money from one person, not for the purposes of running the govt., but to give it to someone else who he thinks is entitled to it more than the person who earned it.
What the fuck do you call taxes, lowing?

TimmmmaaaaH wrote:

Perhaps some are taking the "spreading the wealth" a bit more literally than others.
That's one hell of an understatement.
I need around tree fiddy.

 

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