imortal
Member
+240|6657|Austin, TX

JoshP wrote:

imortal wrote:

So, what groups are well known for voter drives, especially drives in which homeless people and drug addicts (who hardly seem be people closely interested in political affairs) are registered to vote, and what party are they most commonly associated with?
if i was homeless or a drug addict i would be extremely interested in politics so that they could solve my problems
Have you actually spoken to anyone who was homeless and/or a serious drug addict?  I have (in the course of my work).  All a drug addict cares about is when they will get their next hit and how.  That is the extent of their planning and concern.

oh, before I forget

Mary Poppins. Jeffrey Dahmer. Janet Jackson. Chad Staton.

Defiance County elections officials were confident the first three hadn't moved to their small community. But the fourth one lived there, and - in exchange for crack cocaine - tried to falsely submit the first three names and more than 100 others onto the county's voter registration rolls, police said.

Now Mr. Staton, 22, of Defiance, faces a felony charge of false registration in a case that has quickly gained national attention as part of a hotly contested presidential battle that's attracted a flurry of new voter registrations across the country - and a flurry of complaints of voter registration fraud.

Defiance County Sheriff David Westrick said that Mr. Staton was working on behalf of a Toledo woman, Georgianne Pitts, to register new voters. She, in turn, was working on behalf of the NAACP National Voter Fund, which was formed by the NAACP in 2000 to register new voters.

Sheriff Westrick said that Pitts, 41, of Toledo, admitted she gave Mr. Staton crack cocaine in lieu of cash for supplying her with completed voter registration forms. The sheriff declined to say how much crack cocaine Pitts supplied Mr. Staton, or to say whether Pitts knew that the forms Mr. Staton gave her were falsified.
imortal
Member
+240|6657|Austin, TX
more ACORN stuff, for those who requested it.

Cleveland, Ohio
CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Election officials in Ohio's most populous county have called on the prosecuting attorney to investigate alleged voter registration fraud by the community organizing group ACORN.

The bipartisan Cuyahoga County Board of Elections voted unanimously Monday to ask prosecutor Bill Mason to investigate four incidents of people signing multiple voter registration forms at the request of the Association of Community Organizations for Reform.

One of those voters, 19-year-old Freddie Johnson, told FOX News that he signed 73 voter registration forms over a five-month period.

The Cleveland resident said he was offered cigarettes and cash while trying to help paid ACORN solicitors collect signed registrations, but said he did not understand the proper voter-registration procedures.

The group was "trying to get signatures so they can make their money, and I was trying to help them," Johnson said.

ACORN's state director, Katy Gall, said the organization would fire anyone seeking to acquire duplicate registrations and is cooperating with the investigation..

ACORN -- which has a history of voter fraud allegations -- says it has signed up 1.3 million poor and working-class voters this year in a mass registration drive in 18 states. Some of those registration cards have become the focus of fraud investigations in Nevada, Connecticut, Missouri and other states.

Johnson, one of four people subpoenaed to testify over duplicate registrations in Cleveland on Monday, told FOX News that the sheriff's department had assured him that the investigation was aimed at ACORN solicitors, and that he would not face criminal charges.

During the board meeting, Johnson said he would sometimes get approached by six or seven ACORN voter-registration solicitors while waiting for a bus. Other canvassers stood 10 feet away while a solicitor approached him, he said.

"They never told me I couldn't stop signing them," said Johnson. He said the solicitors never  indicated that he was doing something unlawful.

A second new voter, Christopher Barkley, a pizza delivery man from Cleveland, is also facing questioning for allegedly registering to vote 10 to 15 times through ACORN...
Kansas City
Thursday a federal grand jury in Kansas City indicted four persons working for the group Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, accusing them of submitting more than 15,000 voter registration forms with fictitious names, phony signatures and bogus addresses.

ACORN is a liberal advocacy group that claims to speak for the poor and minorities — running these voter registration drives no doubt to prime the pump for an Election Day voter turnout operation that includes multiple voting by the same people at different precincts in a state with a tightly contested Senate race.

But ACORN also runs big-money community development corporations. The federal government supported ACORN housing programs to the tune of $2.6 million in 2003-04. That led Republicans to support efforts to prohibit Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac from subsidizing ACORN’s voter registration drives.
Philidelphia (and others)
A community organization, with longstanding ties to Barack Obama, has, according to numerous reports, repeatedly run afoul of voter registration laws both locally and nationally.

Mr. Obama worked for the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now's Project Vote voter-registration campaign in 1992 after graduating from Harvard Law School. He directed a successful voter-registration campaign, credited with electing Carol Moseley-Braun to the U.S. Senate. Primarily targeting African-Americans, Mr. Obama's efforts added an estimated 125,000 voters to the rolls.

He also participated on a team of attorneys working on behalf of ACORN. They filed a 1995 lawsuit, which required the state of Illinois to implement the federal "motor-voter" bill. He still maintains a relationship with the organization. Mr. Obama's campaign had to file amended federal election reports in August. They paid more than $800,000 to Citizens Services Inc. (CSI), an ACORN subsidiary, to turn out for the campaign during the primaries. However, the campaign listed CSI's activities as polling, advance work and staging major events.

ACORN has a checkered past - and present. It is a grassroots political organization founded by Wade Rathke and George Wiley, both of whom were community organizers for the National Welfare Rights Organization (NWRO).
That checkered past also has turned up locally.

Philadelphia election officials recently accused ACORN, of filing multiple fraudulent voter registrations during the 2008 Pennsylvania primary. The case has been referred to the U.S. Attorney's office, according to Philadelphia Deputy Election Commissioner Fred Voight.

Delaware County election officials have made similar allegations against the group, and criminal indictments are pending.

This past July 24, Dauphin County detectives offered a $2,000 reward for information about the whereabouts of Luis R. Torres-Serrano, an ACORN worker, who was accused of submitting more than 100 fraudulent voter registrations.
ACORN's legal problems with their voter registration efforts stretch beyond state boundaries.

The Milwaukee district attorney is investigating 39 ACORN employees for criminal violations, including offering gifts to sign up voters and falsifying driver's license numbers, Social Security numbers or other information on voter registration cards.

Five ACORN employees were convicted and imprisoned in Washington state, in 2007, for what was described by Washington's Secretary of State Sam Reed, as, "was the worst case of election fraud in our state's history. It was an outrage."

"(ACORN) Workers ... said they were under pressure from the community-organizing group that hired them to sign up more voters," The Seattle Times reported . "Workers told investigators they went to the Seattle public library and filled out the voter registration forms, by using contrived names, addresses and Social Security numbers and in some cases plucked names from the phone book."

Numerous ACORN-related indictments and, or convictions, have been seeded across the country in recent years.
Four part-time ACORN employees were indicted in Kansas City, Mo., for voter registration fraud in November 2006. Two Colorado ACORN workers were sentenced to community service, in January 2005, for submitting false voter registrations.

During the 2004 election, ACORN, and its sister group Project Vote, ran a nationwide voter mobilization drive that was rife with allegations of voter fraud. A worker for one ACORN affiliate in Ohio was allegedly given crack cocaine in exchange for fraudulent registrations that included underage voters, dead voters and voters named Mary Poppins, Dick Tracy and Jive Turkey. Four Ohio ACORN employees were indicted by a federal grand jury for submitting false voter registration forms.

Messrs. Rathke and Wiley formed ACORN in the early 1970s, expanding their involvement beyond welfare recipients to all issues touching low-income and working-class people. According to Discoverthenetworks.org, they enlisted civil rights workers and trained them in a program at Syracuse University patterned after the Saul Alinsky school of activist tactics in Chicago.



Today, ACORN is the largest community organization of low- and moderate-income people in America, with over 400,000 member families organized into more than 1,200 neighborhood chapters in 110 cities across the country.

ACORN founded the Working Families Party in New York in 1998. They endorsed Hillary Clinton for her Senate campaign that year. Canvassers from ACORN and its sister groups launched a statewide voter-mobilization drive that proved influential in Mrs. Clinton's victory.
Yet, opponents say ACORN has violated its own mission not to mention numerous laws meant to protect poor and working class citizens and voters.

The New York Times reported in July 2008 that a whistleblower forced the organization to publicly disclose an embezzlement of almost $1 million in 1999 and 2000, involving Dale Rathke, the brother of the organization's founder Wade Rathke.

Some ACORN executives kept the information from board members and did not tell law enforcement. Meanwhile, Dale Rathke remained on the payroll until June 2008, when disclosure of his theft forced the organization to dismiss him.

"We thought it best at the time to protect the organization, as well as to get the funds back into the organization, to deal with it in-house," said ACORN President Maude Hurd. "It was a judgment call at the time, and looking back, people can agree or disagree with it, but we did what we thought was right."

The Consumers Rights League spokesman Jim Terry said, "ACORN has a long and sordid history of employing convoluted Enron-style accounting to illegally use taxpayer funds for their own political gain. Now it looks like ACORN is using the same type of convoluted accounting scheme for Obama's political gain."

ACORN did not respond to requests for a statement. However, they did refer to a statement by Ms. Hurd, in a Sept. 12 press release, saying, "ACORN has NEVER been indicted for voter fraud, violating elections laws or encouraging ineligible citizens to vote."
there are more, but I am off to class now.
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6688|NJ
What?? What about the Re Count? Awkward that you're apparently bringing this up when our last two elections where riddled with miss counts..

Interesting.. Which is more fraudulent..

No vote in the country actually matters. America is not a democracy..

Last edited by cpt.fass1 (2008-10-28 13:52:15)

imortal
Member
+240|6657|Austin, TX

cpt.fass1 wrote:

What?? What about the Re Count? Awkward that you're apparently bringing this up when our last two elections where riddled with miss counts..

Interesting.. Which is more fraudulent..

No vote in the country actually matters. America is not a democracy..
Do you mean the recount where Gore was trying to get all the absentee ballots thrown out so he would win, since the majority of those absentee ballots were from military servicemembers? (For those who may not be aware, Florida and Texas are prime states for servicemembers to declare as their residence, since they have no income taxes.)  But do you REALLY want to bring an 8 year old argument back up?

Most of those instances I brought up were from THIS election (2008) season.  Obviously, I cannot post any irregularities in this November election, since it has not happened yet.  All I can post for 2008 is voter registration irregularities.  The voter fraud issues from previous elections are added to demonstrate pattern.

Last edited by imortal (2008-10-28 18:44:15)

Catbox
forgiveness
+505|6709

topal63 wrote:

Please demonstrate your spurious statement with actual cases; numerous cases that is. And, while you're at it demonstrate it is of epidemic proportions, that numerous thingy, that indicates a presidential election; this election; is actually being influenced.

Please elucidate your urban republican myth - with some concrete facts instead of tired rhetoric.
Lmao...are you saying ACORN isn't corrupt?   How do you get voter suppression if everyone is legally registered?

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5hvb0 … gD93LVDS80

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/200 … se_is.html



Don't worry though... the messiah has everyone hoodwinked... It will be fun next summer watching people freak out when OB has the lowest approval rating in history along with the house/senate... nancy peloser/...reid and barney frank... 

People hate Bush and they are willing to go with the most radical left wing candidate in history...  oh well... the America haters will be happy...

Let me do some more future predictions... small and medium businesses contract due to new taxes... bigger businesses move to other countries to escape our lack of free trade... poor people will get their 500 or so dollar check... they will use it for an xbox and a couple dinners at a chain restaurant... 

Getting ahead in the US requires hard work and determination... and some luck... it's the fairest system in the world... I work with legal immigrants from el salvador and they work their asses off... they are the american dream...   sitting on your ass waitin for a check is a pathetic way to live...  We need to ship out the lazy folks and welcome the hardworking immigrants... (and again... not talking about certain situations where people legitimately need help... that's why there are programs in place...they are not there to be a handout)

end of rant...

Last edited by [TUF]Catbox (2008-10-29 02:48:45)

Love is the answer
san4
The Mas
+311|6681|NYC, a place to live

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

Getting ahead in the US requires hard work and determination... and some luck... it's the fairest system in the world... I work with legal immigrants from el salvador and they work their asses off... they are the american dream...   sitting on your ass waitin for a check is a pathetic way to live...  We need to ship out the lazy folks and welcome the hardworking immigrants... (and again... not talking about certain situations where people legitimately need help... that's why there are programs in place...they are not there to be a handout)
Right, certain situations that Republicans prefer to ignore. Kids who don't have a decent school to go to need help. Kids with parents who are addicted to drugs need help. Kids with no health insurance need help. Not handouts, help in the form of schools, social workers, healthcare and drug treatment programs. You know, all the things Republicans hate.
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|6709

san4 wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

Getting ahead in the US requires hard work and determination... and some luck... it's the fairest system in the world... I work with legal immigrants from el salvador and they work their asses off... they are the american dream...   sitting on your ass waitin for a check is a pathetic way to live...  We need to ship out the lazy folks and welcome the hardworking immigrants... (and again... not talking about certain situations where people legitimately need help... that's why there are programs in place...they are not there to be a handout)
Right, certain situations that Republicans prefer to ignore. Kids who don't have a decent school to go to need help. Kids with parents who are addicted to drugs need help(maybe they could not have kids if they can't take care of themselves?). Kids with no health insurance need help(I agree). Not handouts, help in the form of schools, social workers, healthcare and drug treatment programs. You know, all the things Republicans hate.
Those are the programs that are needed... which is why some taxes are essential...
  If you can work and you don't... you are entitled to nothing... you understand that don't you?

Last edited by [TUF]Catbox (2008-10-28 20:08:00)

Love is the answer
imortal
Member
+240|6657|Austin, TX

san4 wrote:

[TUF]Catbox wrote:

Getting ahead in the US requires hard work and determination... and some luck... it's the fairest system in the world... I work with legal immigrants from el salvador and they work their asses off... they are the american dream...   sitting on your ass waitin for a check is a pathetic way to live...  We need to ship out the lazy folks and welcome the hardworking immigrants... (and again... not talking about certain situations where people legitimately need help... that's why there are programs in place...they are not there to be a handout)
Right, certain situations that Republicans prefer to ignore. Kids who don't have a decent school to go to need help. Kids with parents who are addicted to drugs need help. Kids with no health insurance need help. Not handouts, help in the form of schools, social workers, healthcare and drug treatment programs. You know, all the things Republicans hate.
No, we hate when those programs are blown completely out of proportion and "help" being handed out to those who are not in those despicable situations, but abuse the system for their own profit, or ride the system instead of using it as a crutch to develop their own ability to sustain themselves without further help.  The problem starts with "why is their kid good enough to get aid, and mine isn't?"  Frightened politicians begin expanding their program until it gets bloated beyond recognition.

Yes, to deny that help to all is to be really cold-blooded to some people.  But I also believe in self-responsibility (okay, that does not sound like a real word).  If you are not in a position to raise a child, to not have one!  By the way, that is the circumstance I am in.  My wife and I want a child, but we are not in the position yet to provide for one properly just yet... but we are fixing that.  I may be talked into a reasonable program for some catagories of people (handicapped, mentally disabled, foster children)... but it would have to have some hefty safeguards, and be able to take voluntary public donations to suppliment the barest of funds given to it by the government.

I believe in 'work or starve.'  Yes, I am a cold-blooded bastard.
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6398|North Carolina
Well, let's see...  In 2000, there was a shitload of voter fraud in Florida -- which mostly benefitted Bush.

Diebold isn't exactly a company that favors Democrats.

In this election, we have numerous cases of "typos" on ballots spelling Obama as Osama.

We also have thousands of registrations being thrown out across the country who just happen to be mostly Democrats (even plenty of which have nothing to do with ACORN).

So, it's not really fair to act like only one side does it.

The sad truth of the matter is that we have one of the least secure voting systems in the First World.  In an age of close elections, accuracy and security are paramount in voting.  But instead of the proper oversight being enforced, we have local corruption skewing votes in all kinds of directions.

As has been said before...  It's not who votes that counts...  It's who counts the votes...
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6403|'Murka

Got anything to back up your Florida voter fraud claims, there Turq?

Or about the "numerous cases" of misspellings of Obama's name?

And if you do, do you have anything that shows malice of forethought behind either?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Pierre
I hunt criminals down for a living
+68|6668|Belgium
If one thing is made very clear, it is that the US is NOT a democracy, where the vote of every citizen counts and is accounted for.

When a country is not able to manage the simple registration of its own people, or to even have simple and universal rules about the voting system, it's not any better then some African shithole.

@ Imortal: do you remember Paul Singer?

In 2007, Singer provided $175,000 to initially finance the petition drive for a proposed California initiative to apportion the state's 55 electoral votes by congressional district instead of winner-take-all. At least 19 of the state's 53 congressional districts could be expected to vote for a GOP presidential candidate, enough to change the national results in a close election.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6283|Éire

imortal wrote:

There is a saying that was being tossed around on FOXNews a few days ago, "Democrats worry about voter intimidation; Republicans worry about voter fraud."  We hear all the time about how worried they are that people will intimidate or threaten voters so they will not come out, but you actually hear very little in the news about actual incidents.

What I am concerned about is voter fraud.  There are 2 main ways voter fraud can occur.  The kind that is most publicized and most often caught are people with homes in two different states registering to vote in both states, usually sending in an absentee ballot to the second state.  This we hear about (if you look) because it is actually caught; the person usually uses their real name and SSN.

The other type of voter fraud, the kind we do not hear about too much, is just going to vote as someone else.  In nearly all of the US, there is no ID check to verify identity when you come to vote.  The most they do is ask your name, and (maybe) a bit of confirming info such as where you live or the last 4 of your SSN.  Why is this so insidious?  Because, as long as you know a couple basic facts about someone you know is registered to vote, then you can vote FOR them.  If you have enough names and info, and don't try to vote all in the same voting location, you can vote 5, 6 times.  More, if you live in a state with early voting.

So, what groups are well known for voter drives, especially drives in which homeless people and drug addicts (who hardly seem be people closely interested in political affairs) are registered to vote, and what party are they most commonly associated with?  Which party blocks and/or votes down ANY attempt to require a photo ID to vote?  Does this explain why Republicans are worried about voter fraud?

(Vote Early; Vote Often; Vote Democrat!)
Is this a party political broadcast or something?

You worry about voter drives? Okay, fair enough. Now what about voter purges? ...Private companies being awarded the contracts to update voter registries (often at wildly overpriced rates) and striking names off of the voter register because of mistaken identity and often because of legal infractions such as traffic violations. And which party is most often aligned to these private companies? The Republican party.

Greg Palast has written books on the issue and reported on it many times for the likes of BBC's Newsnight:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20040517/palast
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Best_D … ey_Can_Buy
Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|6655|USA
Just a point. You don't have to rig the whole country. Just the spots that matter.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,973|6624|949

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=81852

Here's another topic about voter fraud that is along the same lines as this one.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6403|'Murka

Pierre wrote:

If one thing is made very clear, it is that the US is NOT a democracy, where the vote of every citizen counts and is accounted for.

When a country is not able to manage the simple registration of its own people, or to even have simple and universal rules about the voting system, it's not any better then some African shithole.
The US is absolutely a democracy. And the vote of every citizen who chooses to exercise their right to vote counts and is accounted for.

And what's wrong with states apportioning their electoral votes according to the popular vote in each district?
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Ridir
Semper Fi!
+48|6756
The United States is a REPUBLIC not a democracy. It has the tinglings of a democracy but don't be fooled. Appointed officials hold the electoral votes for the electoral college. However, many states have passed laws stating that the person has to vote in accordance with the popular vote of the state.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6403|'Murka

Ridir wrote:

The United States is a REPUBLIC not a democracy. It has the tinglings of a democracy but don't be fooled. Appointed officials hold the electoral votes for the electoral college. However, many states have passed laws stating that the person has to vote in accordance with the popular vote of the state.
A republic is a form of democracy...it's called representative democracy.

This is a discussion we've had here before.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6541|San Diego, CA, USA
In California you don't need an ID to vote.  They just ask your name and your address.
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|6682|Tampa Bay Florida
I thought all the right wingers hated it when the lefties bitched and moaned after the 2000 election?  Double standards?
BN
smells like wee wee
+159|6760
links to a lot of news stories about vote fraud.

some links are mainstream news sources some are a bit off the wall

http://whatreallyhappened.com/taxonomy/term/104

Last edited by BN (2008-10-29 20:50:26)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6764|PNW

CameronPoe wrote:

Ah, so the reason the Republicans are going to lose...
Always too early too tell. I've had Gore and Kerry shoved down my throat by leftier (than Bush) buddies.
(T)eflon(S)hadow
R.I.P. Neda
+456|6822|Grapevine, TX

topal63 wrote:

Please demonstrate your spurious statement with actual cases; numerous cases that is. And, while you're at it demonstrate it is of epidemic proportions, that numerous thingy, that indicates a presidential election; this election; is actually being influenced.

Please elucidate your urban republican myth - with some concrete facts instead of tired rhetoric.
I agree rhetoric is boring. zhe topic is not.

wiki wrote:

Wiki  haters fo
Nixon advisers believed that Kennedy benefited from vote fraud, especially in Texas and Illinois, and that Nixon actually won the national popular vote despite the fact that Republicans tried and failed to overturn the results in both these states at the time--as well as in nine other states. These two states are important because if Nixon had carried both, he would have won the election in the electoral college.

Kennedy won Illinois by less than 9,000 votes out of 4.75 million cast, even though Nixon carried 92 of the state's 101 counties. Kennedy's victory in Illinois came from the city of Chicago, where Mayor Richard J. Daley held back much of Chicago's vote until the late morning hours of November 9. The efforts of Daley and the powerful Chicago Democratic organization gave Kennedy an extraordinary Cook County victory margin of 450,000 votes --- more than 10% of Chicago's 1960 population of 3.55 million[11] -- thus (barely) overcoming the heavy Republican vote in the rest of Illinois. Earl Mazo, a reporter for the pro-Nixon New York Herald Tribune, investigated the voting in Chicago and claimed to have discovered sufficient evidence of vote fraud to prove that the state was stolen for Kennedy.

In Texas, Kennedy defeated Nixon by a narrow 51% to 49% margin. Some Republicans argued that the formidable political machine of Lyndon B. Johnson had stolen enough votes in counties along the Mexican border to give Kennedy the victory there.
imortal
Member
+240|6657|Austin, TX

Spearhead wrote:

I thought all the right wingers hated it when the lefties bitched and moaned after the 2000 election?  Double standards?
You are correct, and I ground my teeth while the democrats fought, whined, and bitched after both the 2000 and 2004 elections (a lot of them swore they would move to Canada if Bush won again; liars!).

If I recall, I only stated that this was a technique for concern.  I did not try to believe that the only reason Obama would win is because of this.  And, to be honest, I am sure this happens of both sides of the fence.  This is, I believe a good topic to discuss, and at least it is easier to talk about and find examples of than 'black box tampering.'

And since I specifically brought it up BEFORE the election, this is not moaning and bitching about the election not going the way I want it to.  YOu have to leave those suggestions for a couple weeks, and see how the fallout turns out.
Pierre
I hunt criminals down for a living
+68|6668|Belgium

FEOS wrote:

Pierre wrote:

If one thing is made very clear, it is that the US is NOT a democracy, where the vote of every citizen counts and is accounted for.

When a country is not able to manage the simple registration of its own people, or to even have simple and universal rules about the voting system, it's not any better then some African shithole.
The US is absolutely a democracy. And the vote of every citizen who chooses to exercise their right to vote counts and is accounted for.
Bollocks. Articles like in this thread clearly indicate that the Government is not capable - or not willing - to guarantee the absolute right of every single citizen to be able to vote.  It is the duty of the Government - be it local, state or federal - to guarantee that every citizen is able to register himself in a way that no one disputes his registration. Clearly, that's not the case.

Furthermore, it is the duty of the Government - be it local, state or federal, although I'd prefer federal - to guarantee that all votes are casted the same way and in an indisputable way, so that recounts are not necessary. Remember Florida 2000? Tell me why both candidates have thousands lawyers standing by at election day?

As long as the US don't follow these rules, they're at the same level as Zimbabwe.

FEOS wrote:

And what's wrong with states apportioning their electoral votes according to the popular vote in each district?
Nothing's wrong there, unless one would like to change the rules to steal an election.
imortal
Member
+240|6657|Austin, TX

Pierre wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Pierre wrote:

If one thing is made very clear, it is that the US is NOT a democracy, where the vote of every citizen counts and is accounted for.

When a country is not able to manage the simple registration of its own people, or to even have simple and universal rules about the voting system, it's not any better then some African shithole.
The US is absolutely a democracy. And the vote of every citizen who chooses to exercise their right to vote counts and is accounted for.
Bollocks. Articles like in this thread clearly indicate that the Government is not capable - or not willing - to guarantee the absolute right of every single citizen to be able to vote.  It is the duty of the Government - be it local, state or federal - to guarantee that every citizen is able to register himself in a way that no one disputes his registration. Clearly, that's not the case.

Furthermore, it is the duty of the Government - be it local, state or federal, although I'd prefer federal - to guarantee that all votes are casted the same way and in an indisputable way, so that recounts are not necessary. Remember Florida 2000? Tell me why both candidates have thousands lawyers standing by at election day?

As long as the US don't follow these rules, they're at the same level as Zimbabwe.

FEOS wrote:

And what's wrong with states apportioning their electoral votes according to the popular vote in each district?
Nothing's wrong there, unless one would like to change the rules to steal an election.
You see, the problem with your premise is that you assume it is the duty of the Federal government to assume that.  In fact, it is laid out in our Constitution that it is the clearly the pervue of the individual States.

Other than that, I agree that there should be a concrete way for a person to easily register to vote while checking to make sure that no one is registered twice and that the person registering is eligible (i.e. alive, for example).  I do not think either party is too intersted in cleaning the system up if they can twist it to their own benifit.  They ARE politicians, after all.

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