Something I Have Always Wondered

2008-10-03 17:13:20

#1

usmarine: Banned; +2,785|7067

Having a little conversation with GS, brought up something from boot camp. I have always wondered what other people think about it. right, so here it goes.

We were just entering our third month in boot camp. There were five of us who came down to PI at the same time form Cleveland, Ohio. At this time in boot camp we had three squad leaders. Two black and one white. The one we knew from Cleveland stood next to one of the squad leaders. The squad leader was black and Robert was white. We were all standing on line one morning and somebody said something down towards the end of the squad bay. The DI turned around and asked the squad leader who said that. He said it was "recruit M" (M since I am not going to say his last name on here) Robert turned and said "It wasn't me you fucking nigger." It was like the oxygen got sucked out of the squad bay. The DI grabbed Robert and dragged him to their office. I thought he was kicked out for sure.

So, here is the thing. They didn't kick him out. They sent him to a platoon with all black drill instructors. And they fucked with him hard....obviously.

I for one think he should have been kicked out. Although I can see where sending him to that platoon might scare him straight according to some.

--------------------------

So the question is, do you think one can change their racist views or is it with them forever?

2008-10-03 17:15:00

#2

MGS3_GrayFox: Member; +50|6473

No, of course you can't, they stay with him/her forever.

2008-10-03 17:16:11

#3

God Save the Queen: Banned; +628|6649|tropical regions of london

they could change. Ive known plenty of racist bastards in the army that have risked their lives for people they might not have liked before simply because of their skin color.

2008-10-03 17:16:21

#4

CameronPoe: Member; +2,925|6861

Extremely difficult. You would have to completely and utterly break the person. Possible though.

This guy is an example of someone who changed:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ervine

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-10-03 17:17:16)

2008-10-03 17:16:39

#5

Parker: isteal; +1,452|6699|The Gem Saloon

people can change....no matter what narrow minded fuck says they cant.

im great proof that people can overcome other things in their lives and change for something better.

2008-10-03 17:22:57

#6

jsnipy: ...; +3,277|6828|...

Santiago is dead, and that is a tragedy. But he is dead because he had no code. He is dead because he had no honor, and god was watching.

2008-10-03 17:26:54

#7

Home: Section.80; +447|7153|Seattle, Washington, USA

I think people can change. Of course, some people are much more open to change than others.

2008-10-03 17:31:32

#8

Icleos: Member; +101|7047

Either they will break him and he'll know how respect someone regarless of skin color or he'll hate black people more than ever.
If they can't change him then is that looked upon as failure to the DIs?

I can imagine being there though at that shattered moment.
All I would be thinking is, "He's a fucking dead man."

Last edited by Icleos (2008-10-03 17:35:15)

2008-10-03 18:03:56

#9

Burwhale: Save the BlobFish!; +136|6528|Brisneyland

Good post. I think people can change although it is very hard.

Forcing the guy into a platoon with all black instructors was probably the best thing as it would force him to show respect to them. I would really like to hear how he went after his time there.

2008-10-03 18:10:05

#10

usmarine: Banned; +2,785|7067

Burwhale the Avenger wrote:
I would really like to hear how he went after his time there.

well, Robert did not change that much. I havent talked to him in years because of that.

sad thing is, that squad leader came down with a disease shortly after boot camp and died. I cant remember the name of the disease, but we were bunk mates at the rifle range. It pains me to this day to think that he died thinking that someone could be racist without being kicked out. I went to his funeral and helped carry his casket yet could not get that out of my mind.

so maybe some of you are correct in that people can change, but I have not seen it yet.

2008-10-03 18:15:55

#11

LividBovine: The Year of the Cow!; +175|6685|MN

Breaking someone will not teach them to respect others. He will hate them more, just more on the inside.

People can change. They have to want to though, or be put in situation condusive to them learning more about the people or person they are being racist toward. Racism=ignorance.

But I still support generalizing and stereotyping though.

"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)

2008-10-03 18:17:34

#12

MGS3_GrayFox: Member; +50|6473

usmarine wrote:
Burwhale the Avenger wrote:
I would really like to hear how he went after his time there.
well, Robert did not change that much. I havent talked to him in years because of that.

sad thing is, that squad leader came down with a disease shortly after boot camp and died. I cant remember the name of the disease, but we were bunk mates at the rifle range. It pains me to this day to think that he died thinking that someone could be racist without being kicked out. I went to his funeral and helped carry his casket yet could not get that out of my mind.

so maybe some of you are correct in that people can change, but I have not seen it yet.

Family installed values are hard to change, really really hard. That is why I think no one can truly change. They can act differently, but the values remain there, and when something negative happens to that person (reinforcing the values taught at home), then all that acting goes down the drain.

I may have not explain that one clearly, let me suggest an example with racism. Say the on in your story, and racism. The DI may have taught him a lesson, and being in an all black platoon. He may have learned to survive dealing with the people he hates, but the moment something negative happened to him and it was because someone who was black, all that "learning" means shit and the person goes back to being him/herself.

2008-10-03 18:50:18

#13

tuckergustav: ...; +1,590|6219|...

Maybe the point of putting him into such a situation was not to change the fact that he was racist...maybe the point was to show him that whether he likes them or not...these are the people that he will be side by side with. If he were to make it through basic and have to (god forbid) go to battle...he has to rely on the guy next to him to watch his back no matter what color his skin is.

...

2008-10-03 18:51:26

#14

wah1188: You orrible caaaaaaan't; +321|6766|UK

Yes they can but something positive would have to have happened for the change.

Peoples opinions of other races sometimes get tainted by bad experiences.

2008-10-03 19:03:32

#15

Reciprocity: Member; +721|6886|the dank(super) side of Oregon

Sounds like something you'd say if you wanted to get kicked out. Why give the guy what he wants after he's already signed his life away. He'll either get his ass stomped or he'll learn to keep his mouth shut.

2008-10-03 19:21:30

#16

Home: Section.80; +447|7153|Seattle, Washington, USA

usmarine wrote:
Burwhale the Avenger wrote:
I would really like to hear how he went after his time there.
well, Robert did not change that much. I havent talked to him in years because of that.

sad thing is, that squad leader came down with a disease shortly after boot camp and died. I cant remember the name of the disease, but we were bunk mates at the rifle range. It pains me to this day to think that he died thinking that someone could be racist without being kicked out. I went to his funeral and helped carry his casket yet could not get that out of my mind.

so maybe some of you are correct in that people can change, but I have not seen it yet.

I've seen people change, pretty radically, but never in regards to racism (mostly because I've never really hung out with racist people or been in a situation where I had to be around them.)

2008-10-03 19:21:39

#17

Spearhead: Gulf coast redneck hippy; +731|6995|Tampa Bay Florida

It depends how racist they are.... events can always enlighten someones perspectives but its hard to do I think.

like, if that guy went to Iraq and was wounded in a street somewhere, and a black marine risked his life dragging him to safety... do you think he'd still be all that racist?

Last edited by Spearhead (2008-10-03 19:22:54)

2008-10-03 20:14:35

#18

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6834|Global Command

Racism runs deep, and it often works both way.

I remember an uncle telling me blacks were blacks because they agreed with Lucifer that we should all go naked.

He didn't even have a grasp on how racist that is.

2008-10-03 21:09:55

#19

CaptainSpaulding71: Member; +119|6662|CA, USA

i believe it is possible to change one's presumably racist views. for example, try acting in a racist manner in an IT profession, or in a chemistry lab or in a dentist office. try moving to CA where racist views are disdained. eventually after some amount of time, i'm confident that one will make the observation that being racist is counter productive to forward career progress and hence won't show it at least outwardly.

of course living in CA, i have also learned never to express my more often conservative views with practically anyone outside of this forum. again, it becomes counterproductive in my career.

so this brings up an interesting point. are we really supressing the deep rooted racist ideas or eliminating them entirely?

secondly, if we really want to eracism, then why do we have people like jesse jackson and al sharpton stirring up the race pot every chance they get? why are people like cynthia mckinney who i believe just stated that 5000 black people were executed during Katrina not up against libel/slander (i forget which is for talk and which is for print)?

PS: There are no black Marines - only dark green. at least that's what i have heard.

Last edited by CaptainSpaulding71 (2008-10-03 21:37:56)

2008-10-04 05:44:11

#20

GorillaTicTacs: Member; +231|6679|Kyiv, Ukraine

usmarine wrote:
So the question is, do you think one can change their racist views or is it with them forever?

Racism is first a learned behavior and then it becomes a type of habit.

Any learned behavior can be "un-learned".

Any habit can be broken or transformed.

Some skulls are thicker than others though.

2008-10-04 05:54:36

#21

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,817|6411|eXtreme to the maX

Racism is first a learned behavior and then it becomes a type of habit.

Any learned behavior can be "un-learned".

Any habit can be broken or transformed.

Some skulls are thicker than others though.

Fuck Israel

2008-10-04 06:13:27

#22

IG-Calibre: comhalta; +226|7048|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann

One of my best friends used to be a real bitter bigot who hated Catholics and was a staunch "Loyalist" when he was a young man, now he would tell you that part of his past shames him, and, that he was easily manipulated by others because of his narrow irrational point of view. So yeah people change all the time.. thankfully..

2008-10-04 06:24:34

#23

Locoloki: I got Mug 222 at Gritty's!!!!; +216|6945|Your moms bedroom

training soldiers for 3 months costs a lot of money and effort that could have been training someone else. Why would they kick him out then, its not like he called a superior officer a N*****
It probably wasnt Robert that mouthed off to the DI, but if it was I guess he had what was coming to him.

Having spent weeks with the same people maybe 20 or so in close proximity, like in my experience on a small ship, it is very easy to get annoyed and pissed off at anyone you dislike or who annoys you.

2008-10-04 07:52:53

#24

SEREMAKER: BABYMAKIN EXPERT √; +2,187|6874|Mountains of NC

yeah we had racism in bootcamp ( 1/3 of my graduating platoon was black ) but hey what do you except, we just plucked out of real life and thrown into the military and 3 months isn't going to change most peoples views

even when I hit the fleet there was still a hint of it ...................... but all the shit changed when the bullets started to fly and color didn't mean shit when the guy to your left or right could save your ass

so what I'm getting at is : takes a something huge ( like impeding death ) to change some views

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/17445/carhartt.jpg

2008-10-04 08:13:25

#25

Mekstizzle: WALKER; +3,611|6926|London, England

They're in the wrong job if they're signing up with racist views. That's my opinion.

BF2S Forums Something I Have Always Wondered

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