Pages: 1 … 3 4 5

 

2008-09-18 02:05:58
JahManRed
wank
+646|6934|IRELAND

Vilham wrote:

JahManRed wrote:

Vilham wrote:

[You support Sinn Fein you support terrorists. End of.

And lol at me keeping my judgemental tone... haha, what Britain may have done in the past doesn't equate to who and what the country represents now, wereas sinn fein are a bunch of terrorists who have murdered THEMSELVES. That is the difference.

You can rant and rave over what Britain USED to be or you can look at who Sinn Fein ARE.
So its ok to "used to be" when talking about the British Government. But "are" when talking about republicans.

Look, if you lived here and lived through the shit you would understand that the only way forward is through forgiveness and moving on. Your neighbour might be your enemy, but you better learn to live with him. The alternative is to start beating shit out of each other every time you meet. My sister lives next door to a guy who murdered 2 ppl during the troubles. Should she attack him or live in peace next door to him?

Sinn Fein like it or not represent the majority of Catholics in N.I. They are the voice of close to a third of the ppl in NI. They turned their back on terrorism along time ago and are now pursuing their cause peacefully.

You seam to be able to highlight plenty of problems but you have not presented any alternative solutions. 

Are the ANC terrorists? Are terrorists ruling South Africa? According to the USA they where until recently.
Are the Israelis terrorists because Lehi bombed the King David hotel killing British solders? The UK does business with Israel. They even describe them as friends, even though the IDF were formed out of Lehi and other Zionist terrorist organisations.
I think you missed my point. The people responsible for Bloody Sunday etc are no longer in positions of power. They no longer speak for the British people or have any control on us.

The people from the IRA responsible for terrorist attacks are now in positions of power. They do speak for Northern Irish people. You don't turn your back on terrorism, you killed innocent people, you can't just become guiltless because you say so.  It doesn't work like that. (Disclaimer - Third person use of "you" not actually referring to you personally, had to say this because last time I said something similar IG claimed I called him personally a terrorist.)

Simple solution find other people to lead a different republican party. Rather than voting for the one that is run by "ex-terrorists" (laughable thought tbh, its like if Hitler changed his mind after he gasses millions of Jews and surrendered, guess he wouldn't be a genocidal maniac any more.
The IRA members who were caught have been convicted, jailed and then released as part of the good friday agreement. BTW, loyalist prisoners were released too and all the Unionists parties have some ties to these paramilitary groups. So it works on both sides.
When paramilitaries hold such influence and power they have to be included in the political process. Its the only way it will work. Look up David ErvIn, Billy Mitchel and the rest. All ex loyalist murderers who now represent thousands of unionists politically in the north.

I am happy to forgive and forget. Bloody Sunday for example. The solders involved have never been in court over there actions. Shooting kids in the back etc. But I am happy to put that behind me. Villam, you have to grasp the fact that to the IRA and the British army, it was war, all out war and like all wars people have top move on and heal. I have moved on. I hold no animosity to the Army, RUC, B Specials and all the other arms of British rule here. Its time you moved on too. Again, if you lived here you would see that's the only way forward.

The SDLP, used to be the biggest republican party in the North. The fannyed around and pandered to the Unionist fabricated majority for decades. When Sinn Fien stepped away from violence and challenged unionist dominance openly the people switched votes. In short they put a manifesto to the people including a united Ireland by any political means. The majority of ppl voted for them. So like it or not they represent the majority of republicans in Ireland.
You linking Sinn Fein to Hitler is week and contrived.
2008-09-18 03:26:45
IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|7048|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann
I wouldn't describe the SDLP as a Republican party, it was, and by and large is a nationalist party. It was really the labour party in Northern Ireland but became focused on Nationalism after they got rid of Gerry Fitt as leader - they fought for the rights of mainly Irish Catholic Nationalists being treated as 2nd class citizens within the United Kingdom. Yes, of course they would of had many Republican supporters who refused to support the Armed Struggle of the Marxist revolutionaries. Once Sinn Fein rejected armed struggle and accepted the tenants of the Good Friday Agreement as voted on and accepted by the entire island of Ireland (74% yes) well that's why the SDLP were decimated - Democratic Republicanism was now acceptable hence why Sinn Fein are now the biggest Nationalist grouping now in N.I. Politics.   

Villiam does make a valid point about the fact that SF are now in heart of government, and lets face it, it's a view shared by most Bitter Unionists and is the stick most favoured to beat the DUP with by the likes of Jim Allister et al.  At the end of the day they offer no other alternative except a Protestant state for a Protestant people, they are yesterdays men.. Nelson Mandela was a terrorist one day, world statesmen the next.. That's how the world works..

Last edited by IG-Calibre (2008-09-18 03:29:53)

2008-09-18 03:46:08
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6596|Éire

JahManRed wrote:

Vilham wrote:

JahManRed wrote:

So its ok to "used to be" when talking about the British Government. But "are" when talking about republicans.

Look, if you lived here and lived through the shit you would understand that the only way forward is through forgiveness and moving on. Your neighbour might be your enemy, but you better learn to live with him. The alternative is to start beating shit out of each other every time you meet. My sister lives next door to a guy who murdered 2 ppl during the troubles. Should she attack him or live in peace next door to him?

Sinn Fein like it or not represent the majority of Catholics in N.I. They are the voice of close to a third of the ppl in NI. They turned their back on terrorism along time ago and are now pursuing their cause peacefully.

You seam to be able to highlight plenty of problems but you have not presented any alternative solutions. 

Are the ANC terrorists? Are terrorists ruling South Africa? According to the USA they where until recently.
Are the Israelis terrorists because Lehi bombed the King David hotel killing British solders? The UK does business with Israel. They even describe them as friends, even though the IDF were formed out of Lehi and other Zionist terrorist organisations.
I think you missed my point. The people responsible for Bloody Sunday etc are no longer in positions of power. They no longer speak for the British people or have any control on us.

The people from the IRA responsible for terrorist attacks are now in positions of power. They do speak for Northern Irish people. You don't turn your back on terrorism, you killed innocent people, you can't just become guiltless because you say so.  It doesn't work like that. (Disclaimer - Third person use of "you" not actually referring to you personally, had to say this because last time I said something similar IG claimed I called him personally a terrorist.)

Simple solution find other people to lead a different republican party. Rather than voting for the one that is run by "ex-terrorists" (laughable thought tbh, its like if Hitler changed his mind after he gasses millions of Jews and surrendered, guess he wouldn't be a genocidal maniac any more.
The IRA members who were caught have been convicted, jailed and then released as part of the good friday agreement. BTW, loyalist prisoners were released too and all the Unionists parties have some ties to these paramilitary groups. So it works on both sides. When paramilitaries hold such influence and power they have to be included in the political process. Its the only way it will work. Look up David ErvIn, Billy Mitchel and the rest. All ex loyalist murderers who now represent thousands of unionists politically in the north.

I am happy to forgive and forget. Bloody Sunday for example. The solders involved have never been in court over there actions. Shooting kids in the back etc. But I am happy to put that behind me. Villam, you have to grasp the fact that to the IRA and the British army, it was war, all out war and like all wars people have top move on and heal. I have moved on. I hold no animosity to the Army, RUC, B Specials and all the other arms of British rule here. Its time you moved on too. Again, if you lived here you would see that's the only way forward.

The SDLP, used to be the biggest republican party in the North. The fannyed around and pandered to the Unionist fabricated majority for decades. When Sinn Fien stepped away from violence and challenged unionist dominance openly the people switched votes. In short they put a manifesto to the people including a united Ireland by any political means. The majority of ppl voted for them. So like it or not they represent the majority of republicans in Ireland.
You linking Sinn Fein to Hitler is week and contrived.
Important points that some people are continuing to ignore in this thread.

Last edited by Braddock (2008-09-18 03:46:38)

2008-09-18 03:54:14
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6717|'Murka

Another key point: This dozy bird opened more than just her gob for this...

https://tbn0.google.com/images?q=tbn:DCw6iJdj0LgJ::www.ilbaluardo.com/Cover/Audio/M%252520-%252520N%252520-%252520O/MARILYN%252520MANSON%252520-%252520Mechanical%252520animals%252520-%252520Front.jpg

So...it's not like her judgment isn't a bit suspect to begin with.

Oh...and another thing:

A Hollywood actress has an opinion. That's cute.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
2008-09-18 03:59:15
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6596|Éire
By the way The_Guardsman, Martin Sheen, Mickey Rourke, Oliver Stone, Sean Penn and Brad Pitt, to name but a few, have all also expressed sympathy and support for the Irish Republican cause...face it, our cause is just much more fashionable than your imperialism!
2008-09-18 13:47:52
The_Guardsman
Tally Ho!!
+81|7051|I'm not sure.... Buts its dark

Braddock wrote:

By the way The_Guardsman, Martin Sheen, Mickey Rourke, Oliver Stone, Sean Penn and Brad Pitt, to name but a few, have all also expressed sympathy and support for the Irish Republican cause...face it, our cause is just much more fashionable than your imperialism!
Oh yes dead innocent mothers, fathers, children what a fantastic cause!

How the bloody hell did terrorism become fashionable????
2008-09-18 13:53:08
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6955

The_Guardsman wrote:

Braddock wrote:

By the way The_Guardsman, Martin Sheen, Mickey Rourke, Oliver Stone, Sean Penn and Brad Pitt, to name but a few, have all also expressed sympathy and support for the Irish Republican cause...face it, our cause is just much more fashionable than your imperialism!
Oh yes dead innocent mothers, fathers, children what a fantastic cause!

How the bloody hell did terrorism become fashionable????
The cause is different to the method though.
2008-09-18 13:56:57
100% Irishpride
Banned
+81|6465|Dublin

jord wrote:

I'll buy your kid a knife if he ever mentions putting it into your flesh. It's coming up on Christmas.
Jord man u are a genuine cock, amirite?
2008-09-18 14:08:55
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6596|Éire

The_Guardsman wrote:

Braddock wrote:

By the way The_Guardsman, Martin Sheen, Mickey Rourke, Oliver Stone, Sean Penn and Brad Pitt, to name but a few, have all also expressed sympathy and support for the Irish Republican cause...face it, our cause is just much more fashionable than your imperialism!
Oh yes dead innocent mothers, fathers, children what a fantastic cause!

How the bloody hell did terrorism become fashionable????
Well in case you couldn't tell my use of the word 'fashionable' was facetious...the English language is marvelous when it comes to subtlety.

Back to topic: What about all the dead innocent mothers, fathers and children killed by the British army? This is a great topic for spinning identical arguments around on each other, isn't it!? British imperialism has caused horrible problems in pretty much every country it has imposed itself on, if you can't see that or admit to yourself then you are thoroughly deluded (you did say you served in the North didn't you? Do happy, peaceful 'countries' usually need an almost constant military presence on the streets?). What the IRA set out to tackle was the foreign occupation of the North of Ireland and the habitual and endemic maltreatment and oppression of the catholic/Nationalist population.

They let their morals and ethics go when they decided it was okay to target innocent civilians and they lost a lot of support when that happened (mine included) but it didn't change the cause of the Republican movement or absolve the British of any of their past sins.

You're beginning to sound like someone who is too bitter and twisted to move on from the past...isn't that accusation usually reserved for the Irish!?

Last edited by Braddock (2008-09-18 14:10:48)

2008-09-18 14:10:11
War Man
Australians are hermaphrodites.
+564|7019|Purplicious Wisconsin

KILLSWITCH wrote:

Well, I guess she'd be up for murdering innocent children then, good on her.  I still can't believe how much tolerence there is for the IRA.

I want to join the Taliban, my heart just breaks for the cause.
Prepare to cut women's throats
The irony of guns, is that they can save lives.
2008-09-18 14:23:28
IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|7048|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann
As a Protestant friend pointed out down the pub the other night when we were talking about this, maybe if she had been "born" in the East of Belfast then her heart would of broke for the Loyalist cause...  which about sums it up   /end
2008-09-19 01:31:02
The_Guardsman
Tally Ho!!
+81|7051|I'm not sure.... Buts its dark

Braddock wrote:

The_Guardsman wrote:

Braddock wrote:

By the way The_Guardsman, Martin Sheen, Mickey Rourke, Oliver Stone, Sean Penn and Brad Pitt, to name but a few, have all also expressed sympathy and support for the Irish Republican cause...face it, our cause is just much more fashionable than your imperialism!
Oh yes dead innocent mothers, fathers, children what a fantastic cause!

How the bloody hell did terrorism become fashionable????
Well in case you couldn't tell my use of the word 'fashionable' was facetious...the English language is marvelous when it comes to subtlety.

Back to topic: What about all the dead innocent mothers, fathers and children killed by the British army? This is a great topic for spinning identical arguments around on each other, isn't it!? British imperialism has caused horrible problems in pretty much every country it has imposed itself on, if you can't see that or admit to yourself then you are thoroughly deluded (you did say you served in the North didn't you? Do happy, peaceful 'countries' usually need an almost constant military presence on the streets?). What the IRA set out to tackle was the foreign occupation of the North of Ireland and the habitual and endemic maltreatment and oppression of the catholic/Nationalist population.

They let their morals and ethics go when they decided it was okay to target innocent civilians and they lost a lot of support when that happened (mine included) but it didn't change the cause of the Republican movement or absolve the British of any of their past sins.

You're beginning to sound like someone who is too bitter and twisted to move on from the past...isn't that accusation usually reserved for the Irish!?
Oh good lord old boy. I'm far from bitter and twisted. Its all well and good having a cause, but like you said morals and ethics went out of the window when innocent people were killed and they started running drugs and all that other stuff that they got up to. Just remember the military being in NI was down to Paramilitary activity's. If there was none then there would have been no need for us and no need to have the RUC armed.

British Imperialism has caused horrible problems in pretty much every country it has imposed itself on. Canada, Australia, Malaysia, New Zealand to name just part of the commonwealth. I see no problems there and when we left they have still kept Her Majesty as head of state. Granted India and Pakistan are arguing over kashmir when we pulled out, but l can't off the top of my head think of any country where we had control apart from Belfast that had problems.

I did serve in the North. By golly what a tour. I spent alot of time in Public order situations from both sides. I'll always remember seeing a 5 year old walking around with a petrol bomb... What a lovely place!

Right this thread was about a dozy cow opening her gob and saying she would have joined the IRA. So far everyone has agreed in so many words that it is wrong and they don't support the IRA. How the hell this has become a tit for tat thread l do not know.
2008-09-19 02:40:31
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6596|Éire

The_Guardsman wrote:

Oh good lord old boy. I'm far from bitter and twisted. Its all well and good having a cause, but like you said morals and ethics went out of the window when innocent people were killed and they started running drugs and all that other stuff that they got up to.
Really? You seem quite bitter and twisted judging from many of your posts in this thread I have to say. It has to be stressed that the slippage of morals and ethics predominantly happened on a tit for tat basis on both sides of the divide. As the oppression and maltreatment got worse from the British side the tactics and mentality on the Republican side got more savage...of course each side will always say the other side 'threw the first stone'. Neither side were justified in their actions. I've admitted that the IRA were wrong in so many of their actions, are you man enough to admit that the British forces were wrong to lock up innocent people without due process and to kill, torture and intimidate innocent civilians?

The_Guardsman wrote:

Just remember the military being in NI was down to Paramilitary activity's. If there was none then there would have been no need for us and no need to have the RUC armed.
And just remember that the paramilitary activity only came about as a reaction to the sectarian maltreatment of Catholics and Republicans in the six counties. If the British had never invaded and planted the region in the first place there would be no problems for the British security services to address. See how the cyclical argument works?

The_Guardsman wrote:

British Imperialism has caused horrible problems in pretty much every country it has imposed itself on. Canada, Australia, Malaysia, New Zealand to name just part of the commonwealth. I see no problems there and when we left they have still kept Her Majesty as head of state. Granted India and Pakistan are arguing over kashmir when we pulled out, but l can't off the top of my head think of any country where we had control apart from Belfast that had problems.
India/Pakistan, Israel/Palestine, Zimbabwe, Sudan...all lovely peaceful places, aren't they?

The_Guardsman wrote:

I did serve in the North. By golly what a tour. I spent alot of time in Public order situations from both sides. I'll always remember seeing a 5 year old walking around with a petrol bomb... What a lovely place!
And who made the place that way? Take a look at the Republic of Ireland since we broke free from British rule, we're not muck savages growing potatoes anymore are we? You are beginning to come across as someone who truly believes the sun rises and sets on the British empire and that you were doing the world a favour by 'civilising' it...your failures have been made painfully apparent by the success of Independent Ireland and your increasingly insignificant empire is a further indication of Britain's relative impotency on the world stage in the modern era.

The_Guardsman wrote:

Right this thread was about a dozy cow opening her gob and saying she would have joined the IRA. So far everyone has agreed in so many words that it is wrong and they don't support the IRA. How the hell this has become a tit for tat thread l do not know.
There is nothing wrong with the idea of joining the IRA, what is wrong is the idea of joining the IRA and participating in the kind of acts it carried out in its more shameful moments...that is wrong. If I were in the IRA during the troubles I would have only struck security services targets, I would sooner face the consequences form my Republican peers than lose my morals on that issue.

Last edited by Braddock (2008-09-19 02:42:02)

2008-09-19 02:48:15
IG-Calibre
comhalta
+226|7048|Tír Eoghan, Tuaisceart Éireann
'Fes up? Guards_man or the British state.. are you having a laugh?  sure look at the leaked document about the joke that is the "HISTORICAL ENQUIRIES TEAM" leaked the day before yesterday.

A special police unit set up to reinvestigate more than 3,200 Northern Ireland Troubles-related killings should be scrapped, according to a leading academic who was given unprecedented access to the team for two years.

The Historical Enquiries Team (HET) was set up by Chief Constable Sir Hugh Orde in 2005 with a £34 million budget to re-examine murders committed during the Troubles. In a unique move University of Ulster lecturer Dr Patricia Lundy was given “unfettered” access to the HET, including access to meetings and personnel.In an attempt to gain the trust of the nationalist community the HET announced that it would recruit the majority of detectives from outside Northern Ireland and would limit the involvement of former members of the RUC, particularly Special Branch. However, Dr Lundy’s report into the HET concluded that its efforts to maintain independence and integrity had been severely compromised by an “over reliance” on former RUC officers, particularly Special Branch.

An HET spokeswoman last night defended the integrity of its investigations, saying that the team had received a positive response from the majority of families it had engaged with. However, Dr Lundy’s report states that all HET intelligence-gathering is “controlled” and “censored” by former RUC Special Branch officers. “It appears that ‘the old guard’ play a key role in the management and access to intelligence and perform a censoring role in respect of disclosure,” she writes. “All aspects of intelligence are managed by former RUC and Special Branch officers. “At the time of the research, the Intelligence Unit (IU) was staffed by 18 former RUC and Special Branch officers.”In November 2007 the HET had 166 staff, including 67 former RUC officers. Two former RUC Special Branch officers and a former British army soldier hold key senior positions within the HET.The report found that the “strategic positioning” of former RUC officers, and particularly those with a Special Branch background, “not only undermines actual but perceived independence”.

One PSNI officer who had been seconded to the HET was Detective Chief Inspector Philip Marshall, who was later accused of “deliberate and calculated deception” during the Omagh bomb trial.

The British army was found to have regularly failed to pass on the names of former soldiers identified in controversial killings to HET investigators. HET requests to the British army were “invariably returned with a negative trace ”, the report said.
Only one fifth of senior RUC detectives who originally investigated Troubles-related killings had “positively engaged” with the HET. While the unit was reported to be investigating more than 1,000 cases during the two-year study, Dr Lundy said the figure actually referred to the number of cases that had ‘gone into the system’. “It is my opinion that a very creative use of language has been employed to describe a process which in the majority of cases is essentially a ‘desktop review’,” she writes.

Raising concerns that “political considerations” appeared to impact on HET’s decision-making process, the report states: “HET are acutely aware of the extreme sensitivity of the cases under review and their likely political ramifications. “There has been a nervousness or lack of confidence in ‘rolling out’ the process and reluctance on the part of senior management to make difficult decisions and deliver perceived unpopular findings.”

The report claims that the HET’s independence was further damaged in 2006 when control of its finances and personnel was transferred to the PSNI.“The loss of control of ‘the purse strings’, has caused tension within HET senior management and cast doubt on claims that the director reports directly to the chief constable which was a significant assurance to NGO’s (non-governmental organisation) in deciding whether to engage with the HET,” it says. “It further raises questions about political oversight beyond financial matters.”

The report stated that staffing, financial and security constraints meant that HET chiefs often found themselves in “crisis management” and “fire fighting”. However, while acknowledging HET efforts to carry out a difficult task, Dr Lundy said it was now time for the unit to be scrapped and replaced with an international and civilian structure. “The HET is a significant departure from the past and a positive development in policing,” she writes.  “Such is the quantifiable shift and the obvious effort and commitment of individuals in developing and delivering a creative response to dealing with the past that it might appear ‘out of step’ to criticise. “The process is, however, not about individuals, neither is it a popularity contest.  “At present, it is apparent to me, that the ‘cracks are being papered over’.

“If we are to learn anything as a society, and if a model of this kind is to be emulated elsewhere, there needs to be an informed, honest and public discussion of the positive and negative lessons – a warts and all assessment so that shortcomings can be avoided.”

A HET spokeswoman last night defended its integrity.

“We always knew that this work would be challenging,” she said.  “It is a unique initiative that has never been undertaken anywhere else.
“We always knew that such a project wouldn’t please everyone and meet everyone’s expectations.
“However, we are very clear that it is the right thing to do.”

The spokeswoman said it had received positive responses from the majority of families it had engaged with.
“We will look closely at the comments made in the report by Dr Lundy,” she said.“Some of her research is now outdated and some of the issues raised have been addressed in the normal process of evaluation and improvement.

“However, the litmus test remains the experience of families who have gone through the process.”

Relatives For Justice victims group spokesman Mark Thompson called for the HET to be wound up in light of what he described as a “shocking” and “devastating” report. A University of Ulster spokesman said the HET report was a draft copy not meant to be made public.
“Dr Lundy’s priority in all of this is the victims and the imperative as a professional academic to make a positive contribution to the discussion on dealing with the past,” he said.
http://www.irishnews.com/articles/540/5 … ligen.html

Last edited by IG-Calibre (2008-09-19 04:04:24)

2008-09-19 10:22:55
rdx-fx
...
+955|6897
Regarding the OP,  Actors and Actresses don't feel the need to be well-informed nor intelligent nor educated on a topic before spewing their views and opinions upon the general population.  Just like the innartubes.

Put another way, for the ADHD/ADD set.. 

Gee, she'd fit right in here at D&ST.
2008-09-19 11:18:52
jord
Member
+2,382|6984|The North, beyond the wall.

100% Irishpride wrote:

jord wrote:

I'll buy your kid a knife if he ever mentions putting it into your flesh. It's coming up on Christmas.
Jord man u are a genuine cock, amirite?
I didn't post that in this thread you fucking idiot...
2008-09-19 11:29:52
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6848|Texas - Bigger than France
I'm in a movie, therefore I'm important and you should listen to me.

Yep, I always do.

There's countless examples.  STFU and do your job ---> pretend you're a vampire or something and show the rack.

Last edited by Pug (2008-09-19 11:30:12)

2008-09-21 16:10:10
Braddock
Agitator
+916|6596|Éire
She is an Irish-American actress... is anyone really that surprised that she sides with the Irish Republican side of the conflict instead of the British imperialist side?

For some bizarre reason I think many British people think its perfectly okay to support the British army's side of that conflict while it is completely taboo to support the Republican side. Here's a newsflash people... a lot of people here in Ireland support the Republican cause and supported the IRA when they were active. However, not many supported them in their morally questionable moments. I know surgeons, engineers and businessmen who support the Republican cause, it is not really that taboo to do so here either. Sorry!

 

Pages: 1 … 3 4 5

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2025 Jeff Minard