rdx-fx
...
+955|6897
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/A/ … 6-18-34-22


AP Article Linked Above wrote:

ISLAMABAD, Pakistan (AP) -- Pakistan's army said Tuesday that its forces have orders to open fire if U.S. troops launch another raid across the Afghan border, raising the stakes in a dispute over how to tackle militant havens in Pakistan's unruly border zone.
I'll withhold my personal opinion on this one for now.  My personal dislike for the Pakistani military & intelligence services is overshadowing my common sense at the moment.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6458|what

Well what do you expect?

Pakistan doesn't want an incursion from the US military into their own country, because they don't want civilians killed.

The US can't even get a simple air strike correct on the border without either hitting civilians or Pakistani border guards in the process.

It's just one more fuck up that Pakistan can do without. The US should fuck off away from Pakistan and leave them to patrol their own border as they see fit.

Last edited by TheAussieReaper (2008-09-16 22:56:48)

https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6835|Global Command

TheAussieReaper wrote:

Well what do you expect?

Pakistan doesn't want an incursion from the US military into their own country, because they don't want civilians killed.

The US can't even get a simple air strike correct on the border without either hitting civilians or Pakistani border guards in the process.

It's just one more fuck up that Pakistan can do without. The US should fuck off away from Pakistan and leave them to patrol their own border as they see fit.
mmmmmkay.

Those are terrovillians.


They should hand over OBL or stfu.
rdx-fx
...
+955|6897
Let me give you the 10 second tour of Pakistani-USA military "cooperation" for the last 30 years;

US:  Dude!  You have a Very-Important-BadGuy meeting at <X> address rightfuckingnow.  You want to go grab him so?
Pakistan:  Welll...  you give us a $100 million, and a few F-16's next year, we miiiiigt be able to have a policeman walk by the place in 3 to 5 years..

(meanwhile, $90 million of abovementioned $100 million goes into the hands of every anti-American group in the region, and the other $10 million goes towards Abdul Quadeer Khan's f**king retirement fund or something...)

Last edited by rdx-fx (2008-09-16 23:09:26)

AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6458|what

ATG wrote:

Those are terrovillians.

They should hand over OBL or stfu.
Pakistan aren't terror-villains. If they do have Osama, I doubt they would be harbouring a known terrorist, just to piss the US off and play cat and mouse on their sovereign border.

You do know what it means to recognise a border, don't you? You move from one into the other with a military force, it's usually considered an act of war.

If the Pakistan army came screaming out of the hills and invaded Afghanistan the US would, what, side with Afghanistan? I don't think so.

Your best bet is to accept a few simple rules from the Paki's, such as staying the fuck away from crossing into their territory, so you can actually work together for a change.

Swinging your dicks all over Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and then where, India? Gimme a break.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
rdx-fx
...
+955|6897
AussieReaper, I agree with the sentiment of "respect their borders" in general.  For Pakistan, I completely understand the exception.

  The Pakistani Military/Intelligence services have been unwilling and/or unable to carry out any really productive or useful military operations against the Taliban, OBL, or a host of other 'problem children' for 30 years.  But, they claim to be such a staunch US ally when it comes time to hand out US Dollars in military aid. 

   Put another way, the Pakistani military & intelligence services couldn't wipe their own ass, given both hands, a flashlight, and $100 billion dollars in US toiletpaper...
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6835|Global Command

TheAussieReaper wrote:

You do know what it means to recognise a border, don't you? You move from one into the other with a military force, it's usually considered an act of war.
Tell that to Mexico.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6458|what

rdx-fx wrote:

Put another way, the Pakistani military & intelligence services couldn't wipe their own ass, given both hands, a flashlight, and $100 billion dollars in US toiletpaper...
Comparing the poor Pakistani military intelligence isn't exactly fair when you look at the current US intelligence shortcomings. Republicans will blame it on Clinton cutting spending, Dems blame it on the poor running and handling of the separate intelligence agencies, etc. And it's pretty clear that the Pakistan intelligence agencies don't have anything near as sophisticated as that.

I do think that the US requesting free travel into Pakistan, guns blazing is just the recipe for disaster. It only takes one village to be raided by US troops on Pakistani territory and you would be starting a war. It's that simple. The request that US troops avoid crossing the border isn't an unreasonable one.

If terrorists flee into Pakistan and cross the border, it's becomes Pakistans problem. They will have to deal with it as best they can. But you cant expect Iraq insurgents to be chased by the US into Afghanistan, then fighting with Al Qaeda, both groups chased into Pakistan and the US having free reign to hit potential targets with gunships and airstrikes on a free and sovereign nations soil.

It's a war on terrorism, not Pakistan. The Afghan govt. needs the US and allies support. Pakistan does not. Let's not forget Pakistan is a nuclear capable nation. Your not dealing with simple towel heads digging in the sand that are letting Al Qaeda into the country willingly.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6458|what

ATG wrote:

TheAussieReaper wrote:

You do know what it means to recognise a border, don't you? You move from one into the other with a military force, it's usually considered an act of war.
Tell that to Mexico.
I said usually. Bay of pigs anyone? lol

Last edited by TheAussieReaper (2008-09-16 23:42:18)

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Reciprocity
Member
+721|6886|the dank(super) side of Oregon
Fuck the Pakis.  They're the South Vietnamese of this conflict.  Taking our money and fucking us with it.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6835|Global Command
Obama would do it too.

rdx-fx
...
+955|6897

TheAussieReaper wrote:

Comparing the poor Pakistani military intelligence isn't exactly fair when you look at the current US intelligence shortcomings. Republicans will blame it on Clinton cutting spending, Dems blame it on the poor running and handling of the separate intelligence agencies, etc. And it's pretty clear that the Pakistan intelligence agencies don't have anything near as sophisticated as that.
No, it's not that the 'poor Pakistani intelligence' can't compare to the US intelligence assets.. it's that given good intel on exact locations of bad guys, they can't be bothered to do a damn thing about it.  They're inept, corrupt, two-faced, and so riddled with everyone else's intelligence services it's not funny.  You tell the Pakistanis where a bad guy is, you have a 50/50 chance of having just warned said bad guy you know where he is.

TheAussieReaper wrote:

I do think that the US requesting free travel into Pakistan, guns blazing is just the recipe for disaster. It only takes one village to be raided by US troops on Pakistani territory and you would be starting a war. It's that simple. The request that US troops avoid crossing the border isn't an unreasonable one.
You're telling me you have never seen just how precise the US military can be, when they want a specific target taken out whilst leaving the surrounding area untouched?
What you're talking about ('guns blazing', ' raiding villages') sounds more like an Oliver Stone vietnam movie - and nothing like the modern US military.


TheAussieReaper wrote:

If terrorists flee into Pakistan and cross the border, it's becomes Pakistans problem. They will have to deal with it as best they can. But you cant expect Iraq insurgents to be chased by the US into Afghanistan, then fighting with Al Qaeda, both groups chased into Pakistan and the US having free reign to hit potential targets with gunships and airstrikes on a free and sovereign nations soil.
The problem is that the Pakistanis are not dealing with the problem.  For 30 years, they've been soaking up Dollars in US military aid, and generally doing 'fuckall' with it.  For being a US ally, they're being remarkably helpful in providing a safe harbor for the other side.
rdx-fx
...
+955|6897
Here, some good books on Pakistani-US history

Ghost Wars, Steven Coll http://books.google.com/books?id=ToYxFL … ;ct=result

The Nuclear Jihadist, Frantz & Collins http://www.amazon.com/Nuclear-Jihadist- … 0446199575
Little BaBy JESUS
m8
+394|6454|'straya
Oh cmon we all know that if Pakistan fire on US troops they will then receive a massive air-strike up the anal hole. Hell it would almost give the US a legitimate reason to invade.

Then they have Pakistan and Afganistan to the west, Georgia to the north, Iraq to the East and Qatar to the south... then what do u know there goes Iran.

Sorry got carried away there
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6458|what

rdx-fx wrote:

You're telling me you have never seen just how precise the US military can be, when they want a specific target taken out whilst leaving the surrounding area untouched?
What you're talking about ('guns blazing', ' raiding villages') sounds more like an Oliver Stone vietnam movie - and nothing like the modern US military.
Precise military strikes have killed Pakistani soldiers and civilians. The latest raids into villages inside Pakistans territory has claimed civilians. That is the whole reason the Pakistan military have been given these orders. It's not for the hell of it they that decided to shoot US troops.

Your not dealing with precision tactical swat team highly trained special op forces, not matter how accurate you think the US forces are, they are subject to misinformation and bad intelligence which results in the wrong targets being killed.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7067

TheAussieReaper wrote:

a simple air strike
you really are an idiot.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6927|London, England
Pakistan need to stop saying that putting their paramilitary in the border regions is doing something. They know that half of them if not more are pretty much loyal to the AQ/Taliban cause so they're not going to do anything meaningful. Not to mention the ISI. Probably the actual proffessional military has more than its fair share of AQ/Taliban sympathisers too. The whole country is infested with these people in just about all levels, and ontop of all of that, the general Pakistani population seem to think that they shouldn't be taking part in this beacuse it's "Americas war" (ffs, they're in your own country and bombing your shit).

Fuck knows how anyone is going to solve this mess.

What's the difference between a pancake and Pakistan. I don't know any pancakes, that were nuked by India!


what? too soon?

/simpsons
usmarine
Banned
+2,785|7067

TheAussieReaper wrote:

Swinging your dicks all over Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan and then where, India? Gimme a break.
lol....ok.  maybe we should go back to the clinton years where al-q and the taliban roam free.  what is your solution then eh?  instead of just bitching about it.
Bradt3hleader
Care [ ] - Don't care [x]
+121|6242
I just think Pakistan is a bunch of lying fags.

Last edited by Bradt3hleader (2008-09-17 05:25:52)

rammunition
Fully Loaded
+143|6167
thank god there is a country on this planet that will stand up for its sovereignty against U.S barbaric beasts.

lets hope Pakistan teach not just America but the whole world how to deal with invading terrorist scum
Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|6952
I guess it's Bushes fault we haven't found Bin Laden. After all, we sure get a lot of help.
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6927|London, England

rammunition wrote:

lets hope Pakistan teach not just America but the whole world how to deal with invading terrorist scum
By letting them stay and build camps and take over their cities?

I don't know what you're playing at, but Pakistan really aren't pulling their weight when it comes to fighting these guys. They're doing the opposite of showing the world how to fight terrorists.

Last edited by Mek-Stizzle (2008-09-17 05:40:24)

rammunition
Fully Loaded
+143|6167

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

rammunition wrote:

lets hope Pakistan teach not just America but the whole world how to deal with invading terrorist scum
By letting them stay and build camps and take over their cities?

I don't know what you're playing at, but Pakistan really aren't pulling their weight when it comes to fighting these guys. They're doing the opposite of showing the world how to fight terrorists.
yes, pakistan has to tighten and patrol borders but that doesn't mean america can just invade them for not doing it so well
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,818|6412|eXtreme to the maX
meanwhile, $90 million of abovementioned $100 million goes into the hands of every anti-American group in the region, and the other $10 million goes towards Abdul Quadeer Khan's f**king retirement fund or something....
LOL
You know 90% of the arms the US provided to fight the Russians ended up in the hands of Anti-American Pakistani tribes?
Blowback FTW!

PS As ever US policy achieves the reverse of the supposed objective.
In fact its hard to believe mayhem in the ME is not the REAL objective.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st … 37,00.html
Pakistan tribal chiefs warn US on raids
LEADERS of an estimated 500,000 tribesmen who have so far remained largely neutral over the conflict in Afghanistan warned last night they were poised to support al-Qa'ida and the Taliban unless US forces retreated from their strategy of attacking targets inside Pakistan.

In a major jolt to Washington's new policy of allowing cross-border raids in defiance of the Government in Islamabad, key tribal elders were reported to have met and warned that they were also prepared to raise an army to fight coalition forces in Afghanistan.

"If America doesn't stop attacks in the tribal areas, we will prepare a lashkar (army) to attack US forces in Afghanistan," Pashtun tribal chief Malik Nasrullah Khan was reported as saying in Miranshah, the largest town in North Waziristan, which has been the target of repeated US attacks in the past week.

"We will also seek support from the tribal elders in Afghanistan to fight jointly against America."

In the complicated fabric of tribal affiliations along the 1300km Durand Line that nominally separates Afghanistan from Pakistan, Malik Nasrullah is regarded as a powerful figure.

Only last month, he led a group of tribal elders in declaring support for government moves against militancy in the Kurrum Agency - a region beset by sectarian strife involving the Taliban.

In the past, Malik Nasrullah has been regarded as a moderate, but his change of position follows repeated US cross-border raids that, the Government in Islamabad insists, target mainly innocent civilians and are serving to sign up new recruits for al-Qa'ida and the Taliban.
Great work ya idiots.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2008-09-17 06:00:04)

Fuck Israel
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,761|6458|what

usmarine wrote:

TheAussieReaper wrote:

a simple air strike
you really are an idiot.
Because the Taliban really have Mig's capable of shooting down B52 bombers? (not that you need to use the B52's lol) You could be using nighthawks from the first gulf war and still have air superiority. You don't even need piloted aircraft with the predator drones to hit targets.

How you still manage to fuck up this badly though is beyond me:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25090111/

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4619422.stm

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/12/world … pstan.html

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/0 … index.html

Last edited by TheAussieReaper (2008-09-17 06:17:39)

https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png

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