Don't think she'll know about South Quay or Manchester.ghettoperson wrote:
I suppose. I just doubt somehow she is in possession of all the facts.
nah must be lies, the IRA would never do that and the British soldiers were all evil. The soldier probably pushed the woman on top of the grenade to save himself.SEREVENT wrote:
Wow.
I hate the IRA. Seriously.
I can't remember the names of the Brits who took a wrong turn and drove into some funeral for an IRA guy or something, but they were surrounded in their jeep, and when one fired a WARNING SHOT they were dragged out, beaten, tortured and, i think one was decapitated. That story broke my heart.
Also, i'm not sure if this is true, but i read this one in a book too:
A soldier was in a train station guarding it, and a woman with a baby started abusing him, calling him names etc. when a man came and got the Brits' attention, and threw a grenade at him. It landed near the woman and baby, and she froze. The soldier jumped on the grenade to sacrifice himself instead of letting two people die.
I could actually justify a lot more dead and injured. It is a trend now days to blame the weak side of being "terrorists" while relieving the various standing armies. I say fuck all that. If it's terrorism one way then it's even more effective terrorism on the other. I see no distinction in the methods used. Each one acts according to their capabilities. So I can never agree with you in pinning all the destruction and carnage to the IRA.The_Guardsman wrote:
I would'nt say l know fuck all of the situation old boy. I did do a 6 month tour over there and read a few books. I was shot at set on fire and almost blown up. All for fun, not political views. I spoke to some of the people out there. They say most of the riots happen because they're bored. They either start off throwing stones at the opposition. i.e Protestant v Catholic or vise verser. Then when the Army rock up to try and stop it the stones are then thrown straight at the Army. Or they just start throwing at the Army.
So would you be happy if she said l'd support the Taliban because l fell in love with there cause? No l don't think so. IRA are terrorist pure and simple.
The Official IRA went about doing things politically PIRA went about doing it with violence.
How can you justify a cause that left over 3000 dead (1000 were security forces) over 6000 injured. May of these were Innocent people just trying to go about life. Can you also justify the extortion, the punishment beatings, racketeering rings, drugs and arms smuggerling? I bloody could'nt!
Any way this has gotten out of hand. Your views are different to mine and l won't be able to change your views and you would'nt be able to change my views. My view is l think the Actress has'nt got a clue whats shes talking about and the fact Hollwood have re written history...Again! But they you go. I think this should stop here.
Have fun l'm off a cheese sarny, a cup of tea and to watch the Cannonball run
And btw, as for the Taliban, they were fine when they repelled the Russians, weren't they? Nice ole freedom fighters back then somehow turned to bloody terrorists in a jiffy. What would you have said back then if that cunt had sided with them? Nothing.
ƒ³
The fact they basically did a u-turn on the people who were helping them? If they'd known that was going to happen they wouldn't have helped them any further.oug wrote:
I could actually justify a lot more dead and injured. It is a trend now days to blame the weak side of being "terrorists" while relieving the various standing armies. I say fuck all that. If it's terrorism one way then it's even more effective terrorism on the other. I see no distinction in the methods used. Each one acts according to their capabilities. So I can never agree with you in pinning all the destruction and carnage to the IRA.The_Guardsman wrote:
I would'nt say l know fuck all of the situation old boy. I did do a 6 month tour over there and read a few books. I was shot at set on fire and almost blown up. All for fun, not political views. I spoke to some of the people out there. They say most of the riots happen because they're bored. They either start off throwing stones at the opposition. i.e Protestant v Catholic or vise verser. Then when the Army rock up to try and stop it the stones are then thrown straight at the Army. Or they just start throwing at the Army.
So would you be happy if she said l'd support the Taliban because l fell in love with there cause? No l don't think so. IRA are terrorist pure and simple.
The Official IRA went about doing things politically PIRA went about doing it with violence.
How can you justify a cause that left over 3000 dead (1000 were security forces) over 6000 injured. May of these were Innocent people just trying to go about life. Can you also justify the extortion, the punishment beatings, racketeering rings, drugs and arms smuggerling? I bloody could'nt!
Any way this has gotten out of hand. Your views are different to mine and l won't be able to change your views and you would'nt be able to change my views. My view is l think the Actress has'nt got a clue whats shes talking about and the fact Hollwood have re written history...Again! But they you go. I think this should stop here.
Have fun l'm off a cheese sarny, a cup of tea and to watch the Cannonball run
And btw, as for the Taliban, they were fine when they repelled the Russians, weren't they? Nice ole freedom fighters back then somehow turned to bloody terrorists in a jiffy. What would you have said back then if that cunt had sided with them? Nothing.
Theres a song about this by Harvey Andrews.SEREVENT wrote:
Wow.
I hate the IRA. Seriously.
I can't remember the names of the Brits who took a wrong turn and drove into some funeral for an IRA guy or something, but they were surrounded in their jeep, and when one fired a WARNING SHOT they were dragged out, beaten, tortured and, i think one was decapitated. That story broke my heart.
Also, i'm not sure if this is true, but i read this one in a book too:
A soldier was in a train station guarding it, and a woman with a baby started abusing him, calling him names etc. when a man came and got the Brits' attention, and threw a grenade at him. It landed near the woman and baby, and she froze. The soldier jumped on the grenade to sacrifice himself instead of letting two people die.
Someone aboved mentioned something about the Taliban repealing the Russian. Not true. The Mujadeen fought the Russians, how ever the Taliban come to power after the Russians left. Currently one of the top Generals in the Afgan Army was a Mujadeen and fought against the Russians.
I
And guess who supplied the Mujadeen.The_Guardsman wrote:
Someone aboved mentioned something about the Taliban repealing the Russian. Not true. The Mujadeen fought the Russians, how ever the Taliban come to power after the Russians left. Currently one of the top Generals in the Afgan Army was a Mujadeen and fought against the Russians.
Yeah, the Taliban were a radical group that emerged out of the mess in Afghanistan after the Russians left and the Russian-backed Afghan government was defeated. The core Mujadeen ended up becoming what was the Northern Alliance but they lost to the Taliban (except in the North) in the civil war during the 90's (or something like that).
It was a weird and complicated situation. The reason the Taliban rose to power is that effectively everyone abandoned the Muj after the Russians left and that countries like Pakistan/Saudi chose to support the Taliban instead of the Muj.
It was a weird and complicated situation. The reason the Taliban rose to power is that effectively everyone abandoned the Muj after the Russians left and that countries like Pakistan/Saudi chose to support the Taliban instead of the Muj.
Last edited by Mek-Stizzle (2008-09-14 06:25:01)
Think some people are missing the point here and I'll paraphrase Tony Blair in the House of Commons who actually made an analogy between Al Qaeda and the IRA when he said that although he clearly did not support the use of IRA violence the aim of uniting Ireland was a noble and honorable political aim.
Then he went on to say that Al-Qaeda in comparison are an organisation that defines itself by violence, eg, you could negotiate with the IRA as they had a political agenda, however, you will note there is no negotiation with Al-Qaeda - because they simply want to wipe out non-Muslims, Jews etc...violence or Jihad is a moral duty for each Muslim etc etc. What would you negotiate over?
However, I would probably add that an organisation that kills based on one's religious background as opposed to any sound political aim has much more in common with Al-Qaeda, ie, the UVF, UDA, LVF and those other loyalist terrorist groupings who killed on the basis of an accident of birth, ie, religion, and who are still to this day fully armed, have not decommissioned and have killed 60 people since the GFA. Also, Lets not forget that 60 percent of those killed by the British during the conflict here were civilians. Including children such as 15 year Danny Barrett from Ardoyne who was shot dead while standing at his own front door or 9 year old Paddy Rooney who was in his own bed when an RUC tracer bullet came through the window and killed him.
Then he went on to say that Al-Qaeda in comparison are an organisation that defines itself by violence, eg, you could negotiate with the IRA as they had a political agenda, however, you will note there is no negotiation with Al-Qaeda - because they simply want to wipe out non-Muslims, Jews etc...violence or Jihad is a moral duty for each Muslim etc etc. What would you negotiate over?
However, I would probably add that an organisation that kills based on one's religious background as opposed to any sound political aim has much more in common with Al-Qaeda, ie, the UVF, UDA, LVF and those other loyalist terrorist groupings who killed on the basis of an accident of birth, ie, religion, and who are still to this day fully armed, have not decommissioned and have killed 60 people since the GFA. Also, Lets not forget that 60 percent of those killed by the British during the conflict here were civilians. Including children such as 15 year Danny Barrett from Ardoyne who was shot dead while standing at his own front door or 9 year old Paddy Rooney who was in his own bed when an RUC tracer bullet came through the window and killed him.
Last edited by IG-Calibre (2008-09-17 04:54:23)
I was reading about the troubles, it did seem that we (the UK) didn't do as much about the Loyalist terrorists as we did about the Irish ones. I think you can blame the weakness of the ROI government in doing fuck all during the troubles. I mean these guys were blowing up Dublin and shit, yet the ROI didn't seem to have the balls to do anything about it and the UK government didn't seem to care, so the only people that could were IRA folks.
I suppose it could've blown into a full conflict between ROI and UK though...
Or maybe I don't know enough about this shit just yet.
I suppose it could've blown into a full conflict between ROI and UK though...
Or maybe I don't know enough about this shit just yet.
And how many civilians were killed by IRA attacks? Much as you want to portray the British Army as the bad guys, you really can't in comparison to what the IRA did. We're all aware the British Army did some terrible things, but it pails in comparison to the IRA.
I'll say again Ghettoperson, The IRA were a terrorist organisation. Excuse me if I expect the Government "state" to protect it's citizens, not fucking murder them to somehow collectively punish then. or for them to prop up a discriminatory government & apartheid state . Then to reward those who failed so comprehensively in their "duty" rather than punish them? to cover up and whitewash such incidents? and reward the perpetrators as heroes? a bridge to far for me. Treat terrorists with the full weight of the law. but who guards the guardians?ghettoperson wrote:
And how many civilians were killed by IRA attacks? Much as you want to portray the British Army as the bad guys, you really can't in comparison to what the IRA did. We're all aware the British Army did some terrible things, but it pails in comparison to the IRA.
First story is true. Second one isn't. Undercover Solders were photographing ppl at an IRA funeral and were spotted doing so. As the ppl being buried were killed by Solders the relatives had someone to take vengeance on. Tragic. But none the less stupid leaving those two guys unsupported with half of the IRA standing 100 yards away. And yeah they chopped them up and impaled them on a fence.Vilham wrote:
nah must be lies, the IRA would never do that and the British soldiers were all evil. The soldier probably pushed the woman on top of the grenade to save himself.SEREVENT wrote:
Wow.
I hate the IRA. Seriously.
I can't remember the names of the Brits who took a wrong turn and drove into some funeral for an IRA guy or something, but they were surrounded in their jeep, and when one fired a WARNING SHOT they were dragged out, beaten, tortured and, i think one was decapitated. That story broke my heart.
Also, i'm not sure if this is true, but i read this one in a book too:
A soldier was in a train station guarding it, and a woman with a baby started abusing him, calling him names etc. when a man came and got the Brits' attention, and threw a grenade at him. It landed near the woman and baby, and she froze. The soldier jumped on the grenade to sacrifice himself instead of letting two people die.
@the OP.
Well who's to say if you lived in Belfast at the height of the troubles you wouldn't join the IRA or UDA dependant on your religion. 10s of thousands signed up for paramilitary organisation at the height of the troubles. Ppl signed up when family members were murdered, when a son or daughter got beat to a pulp by the army/police/paramilitary punishment squad for no other reason that their religion. Maybe they signed up because the government didn't represent all parts of the community, maybe they signed up because they were discriminated against and couldn't get work because of their religion............
Unless you were there living in Belfast, one of the poorest, run down violent areas in Europe at the time its hard to comment. Stupid bitch should stfu about something she has no clue about sitting in her fucking mansion in Beverly Hills.
Not to try and glorify or justify anything. But its an interesting fact that the Loyalist paramilitary organisations, UDA, UVF, UFF, LVF RHC etc etc murdered nearly a third more people than the IRA did during the troubles. Quite a high percentage was their own ppl, protestants. These organisations have not decommissioned one single gun or handed over one ounce of explosives.ghettoperson wrote:
And how many civilians were killed by IRA attacks? Much as you want to portray the British Army as the bad guys, you really can't in comparison to what the IRA did. We're all aware the British Army did some terrible things, but it pails in comparison to the IRA.
We are trying to move on in this country and that means forgiving and forgetting no matter how hard that is to comprehend. The IRA have moved on, yet are never out of the news despite the many independent and government reports which say they have decommissioned and disbanded. Never a mention of the UDA etc who are still armed to the teeth, still carrying out murder and punishment beatings (mostly against their fellow protestants) still flooding NI with drugs, still extorting from, again, their own people protection money etc...............
The British killed and locked up plenty of innocent people too my good friend. Just Google "Bloody Sunday", "Internment", "Birmingham Six", "Guidford Four", "RUC collusion". It's very easy to take a black and white view of something as complex as the troubles in Northern Ireland but it's pretty ignorant to do so. She's entitled to her opinion and it's entirely valid, I would have probably joined the IRA had I been living in Belfast during the troubles too. The Republican cause wasn't dreamed up over wine and cheese during a comfy soiree, it was born out oppression and suffering.The_Guardsman wrote:
So its alright to kill innocent people, run extortion rings, knee cap people, sell drugs to list a few? People seem to have this romance that the PIRA were freedom fighters and unfortunatly its because of films like The Devils Own and no doubt this one will also be.Lotta_Drool wrote:
England lied and people died.
They may have a had a cause to start off with, but that went down the drain as far as l'm concered after they started to make money.
Unfortunately both sides let their morals and ethics slip during the struggle. I always supported the cause of the IRA but I could never condone the targeting of innocent civilians, it's a pity they didn't just stick to security services targets because they were actually very good at that.
As regards extortion rings, the selling of drugs and profiteering I think you'll find they're following the Loyalist's lead on that front. The INLA and Real IRA that exists now are nothing but Irish versions of the mafia and can go fuck themselves as far as I'm concerned.
Actually no they didn't. Someone posted the figures on this thread or another. The IRA killed thousands most other groups killed 100 or less.JahManRed wrote:
Not to try and glorify or justify anything. But its an interesting fact that the Loyalist paramilitary organisations, UDA, UVF, UFF, LVF RHC etc etc murdered nearly a third more people than the IRA did during the troubles. Quite a high percentage was their own ppl, protestants. These organisations have not decommissioned one single gun or handed over one ounce of explosives.ghettoperson wrote:
And how many civilians were killed by IRA attacks? Much as you want to portray the British Army as the bad guys, you really can't in comparison to what the IRA did. We're all aware the British Army did some terrible things, but it pails in comparison to the IRA.
We are trying to move on in this country and that means forgiving and forgetting no matter how hard that is to comprehend. The IRA have moved on, yet are never out of the news despite the many independent and government reports which say they have decommissioned and disbanded. Never a mention of the UDA etc who are still armed to the teeth, still carrying out murder and punishment beatings (mostly against their fellow protestants) still flooding NI with drugs, still extorting from, again, their own people protection money etc...............
seen a quare job for you today Jahman! 30k a year!!JahManRed wrote:
Not to try and glorify or justify anything. But its an interesting fact that the Loyalist paramilitary organisations, UDA, UVF, UFF, LVF RHC etc etc murdered nearly a third more people than the IRA did during the troubles. Quite a high percentage was their own ppl, protestants. These organisations have not decommissioned one single gun or handed over one ounce of explosives.ghettoperson wrote:
And how many civilians were killed by IRA attacks? Much as you want to portray the British Army as the bad guys, you really can't in comparison to what the IRA did. We're all aware the British Army did some terrible things, but it pails in comparison to the IRA.
We are trying to move on in this country and that means forgiving and forgetting no matter how hard that is to comprehend. The IRA have moved on, yet are never out of the news despite the many independent and government reports which say they have decommissioned and disbanded. Never a mention of the UDA etc who are still armed to the teeth, still carrying out murder and punishment beatings (mostly against their fellow protestants) still flooding NI with drugs, still extorting from, again, their own people protection money etc...............
http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/personnel/ … 08_ad2.htm
The Northern Airlan Assembly Commission is lukin applications fur the fou time poseetion o Assistant Editor (Ulster Scotch).
Last edited by IG-Calibre (2008-09-17 05:56:34)
The same could be said of your support of the British security services.Vilham wrote:
IG supports the IRA so don't expect him to blame them for anything.
Nope, both sides let their ethics and morals slip and committed atrocities.Vilham wrote:
Apparently because of what the British army did in NI it makes what the IRA did ok.
Would you rather they were still terrorists? The British Government had the British army, Sinn Féin had the IRA, now we have power sharing... now lets all go and have some tea and biscuits.Vilham wrote:
There are two republican party's in NI guess which one IG supports, yup you got it, the ones who "used" to be terrorists.
It doesn't quite work like that, you were even talking about black and white before, well the commanders who made those poor calls in NI that led to events like Bloody Sunday are largely not in military positions anymore. Whereas the guys that were telling people to blow civilians up are now running a political party, I would call that pretty fucked up tbh.Braddock wrote:
The same could be said of your support of the British security services.Vilham wrote:
IG supports the IRA so don't expect him to blame them for anything.Nope, both sides let their ethics and morals slip and committed atrocities.Vilham wrote:
Apparently because of what the British army did in NI it makes what the IRA did ok.Would you rather they were still terrorists? The British Government had the British army, Sinn Féin had the IRA, now we have power sharing... now lets all go and have some tea and biscuits.Vilham wrote:
There are two republican party's in NI guess which one IG supports, yup you got it, the ones who "used" to be terrorists.
Then theres the fact that we have different people in power. You say "The British Government" which government? we have had a lot of them, im pretty certain people that made the calls in NI aren't in power anymore. Makes your point kinda stupid irrelevant. The EX British Government had the British army where the calls were made by military men and not personally by the government, the CURRENT Sinn Fein had the IRA and were MEMBERS of the IRA. I would say its pretty different.
Im pretty sure every single British person in this thread has admitted the army did wrong big time. I have yet to hear the same about the IRA from the Irish people.
Last edited by Vilham (2008-09-17 05:57:03)
Nope.Vilham wrote:
Actually no they didn't. Someone posted the figures on this thread or another. The IRA killed thousands most other groups killed 100 or less.JahManRed wrote:
Not to try and glorify or justify anything. But its an interesting fact that the Loyalist paramilitary organisations, UDA, UVF, UFF, LVF RHC etc etc murdered nearly a third more people than the IRA did during the troubles. Quite a high percentage was their own ppl, protestants. These organisations have not decommissioned one single gun or handed over one ounce of explosives.ghettoperson wrote:
And how many civilians were killed by IRA attacks? Much as you want to portray the British Army as the bad guys, you really can't in comparison to what the IRA did. We're all aware the British Army did some terrible things, but it pails in comparison to the IRA.
We are trying to move on in this country and that means forgiving and forgetting no matter how hard that is to comprehend. The IRA have moved on, yet are never out of the news despite the many independent and government reports which say they have decommissioned and disbanded. Never a mention of the UDA etc who are still armed to the teeth, still carrying out murder and punishment beatings (mostly against their fellow protestants) still flooding NI with drugs, still extorting from, again, their own people protection money etc...............
Republicans killed about 2000ppl
Loyalist killed about 1000ppl
The figures above are all taken as Republicans killing Loyalists and Loyalists killing Republicans. It doesn't take into account the many murders caused by loyalist paramilitary infighting and power struggles within the organisations themselves. It doesn't take into account the many people murdered in turf wars over drugs or the many people murdered by "punishment" squads, as these were seen as standard criminality not linked to the troubles. Seen it in a documentary a while back. The figures above are for murders carried out against the other side not against their own people.
I have heard every Irish man on these forums denounce the IRA many times. These same people denounce the actions of the British Army in their time here too.Vilham wrote:
Im pretty sure every single British person in this thread has admitted the army did wrong big time. I have yet to hear the same about the IRA from the Irish people.
Are you for real? Some of the people involved in British atrocities have been decorated by the crown and awarded honours. Pretty damn insulting.Vilham wrote:
It doesn't quite work like that, you were even talking about black and white before, well the commanders who made those poor calls in NI that led to events like Bloody Sunday are largely not in military positions anymore. Whereas the guys that were telling people to blow civilians up are now running a political party, I would call that pretty fucked up tbh.
The IRA operated as an army, not some bunch of rag-tag renegades acting on Sinn Féin's every whim; the comparison is valid. You continue to complain about Sinn Féin being in power now but like I have asked before, would you prefer they were still attacking you? They wanted you out completely, they too have compromised whether you care to acknowledge that or not. Politics is rarely simple or easy, power-sharing is a better alternative to conflict.Vilham wrote:
Then theres the fact that we have different people in power. You say "The British Government" which government? we have had a lot of them, im pretty certain people that made the calls in NI aren't in power anymore. Makes your point kinda stupid irrelevant. The EX British Government had the British army where the calls were made by military men and not personally by the government, the CURRENT Sinn Fein had the IRA and were MEMBERS of the IRA. I would say its pretty different.
Have you not been reading my posts? I also know for a fact that Cameronpoe does not condone the killing of civilians either.Vilham wrote:
Im pretty sure every single British person in this thread has admitted the army did wrong big time. I have yet to hear the same about the IRA from the Irish people.
Id be qualified for that. The crew of builders building a nightclub for us atm are as Ulster Scots as you can get. They talk nothing like the Ulster Scots "language" which is sadly supposed to exist. They speak lazy English, which is basically leaving out as many words and syllables as possible while still getting the message across. I would classify myself as Ulster Scott Irish. Are you trying to say I have a dodge accent? Not a hope in hell of me getting that job. A Catholic running the Ulster Scots.........never going to happen.IG-Calibre wrote:
seen a quare job for you today Jahman! 30k a year!!
http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/personnel/ … 08_ad2.htm
That Willy Drennon tosser fabricated the whole thing and has profited from more than anyone. I wonder do the BBC see how unintentionally hilarious, Walks With Drennon is. The man sounds like a bad actor playing a role, which he is.
Ahem - a "dander" with Drennan ye mean.. I keep scouring youtube in the vain hope someone posts the clip of him "teaching" Ulster Scots in Armoy primary where he gets the children to sing about crows. Ballymoney slang.. 30K a year!!!! unbelievable..JahManRed wrote:
Id be qualified for that. The crew of builders building a nightclub for us atm are as Ulster Scots as you can get. They talk nothing like the Ulster Scots "language" which is sadly supposed to exist. They speak lazy English, which is basically leaving out as many words and syllables as possible while still getting the message across. I would classify myself as Ulster Scott Irish. Are you trying to say I have a dodge accent? Not a hope in hell of me getting that job. A Catholic running the Ulster Scots.........never going to happen.IG-Calibre wrote:
seen a quare job for you today Jahman! 30k a year!!
http://www.niassembly.gov.uk/personnel/ … 08_ad2.htm
That Willy Drennon tosser fabricated the whole thing and has profited from more than anyone. I wonder do the BBC see how unintentionally hilarious, Walks With Drennon is. The man sounds like a bad actor playing a role, which he is.
Might be something to do with the fact that the British State were arming the Loyalist terrorists and when they weren't wearing their balaclavas out murdering random Catholics they had on their RUC Uniforms and were out murdering them with the British army in support. Also look at the Monaghan and Dublin bombings, they had a level of sophistication never seen before or since in Loyalist attacks which would also indicate British state collusion in those atrocitiesMek-Stizzle wrote:
I was reading about the troubles, it did seem that we (the UK) didn't do as much about the Loyalist terrorists as we did about the Irish ones. I think you can blame the weakness of the ROI government in doing fuck all during the troubles. I mean these guys were blowing up Dublin and shit, yet the ROI didn't seem to have the balls to do anything about it and the UK government didn't seem to care, so the only people that could were IRA folks.
I suppose it could've blown into a full conflict between ROI and UK though...
Or maybe I don't know enough about this shit just yet.
Last edited by IG-Calibre (2008-09-17 07:33:35)
Yeah condone the IRA one second that start chatting about how Sinn Fein are good people.Braddock wrote:
Have you not been reading my posts? I also know for a fact that Cameronpoe does not condone the killing of civilians either.Vilham wrote:
Im pretty sure every single British person in this thread has admitted the army did wrong big time. I have yet to hear the same about the IRA from the Irish people.
You guys are very willing to bring up things the British did during the troubles and how they can't repent for what happened but are more than willing to forget that Sinn Fein can never repent either for what it has done either and happily vote murderers into power.
Doesn't sound like condoning to me. Say one thing do another.
And obviously I wouldn't prefer they were still terrorists I would prefer they were locked up where they belong along with the generals that made the calls on Bloody Sunday etc.
Last edited by Vilham (2008-09-17 07:36:25)