theDude5B
Cool member
+804|7018
Was watching Black Hawk Down the other day, and realised that Warlord has the blackhawk down in the square just like the movie.

It got me thinking about many war movies which come out of hollywood.

Black Hawk Down, We Were Soldiers, The Thin Red Line, Hamburger Hill etc...

now these movies are all good, but it just shows how dumb the USMC really are. These movies are all based on true events, and they all involve many soldiers loosing their lives because the person in charge sends the army into a place which they are not sure of, and then the troops end up in a massive battle.

It is funny though that movies are made about these events, because really they are just saying how dumb the generals are, and it is down to the lower ranked soldiers to sort out the mess!

just a thought...
[S.P.S]1on1killa
Member
+28|7008|Germany, Berlin
well, the USMc is trained for going to places that most soldiers would not want to go to.....therefore, you cannot really say that the USMC and most generals are stupid, because who really knows what is going on in every corner of the country you are fighting in?

btw, the beginning part, were the rebels shot the people, while they are waiting for food, is complete bullshit. i heared this one US army offcial say that alot of scences for these kind of movies are made-up, simply to amaze the viewer and make them say "holy shit, thats so cccooooooolllllll".....its just hollywood...
Mensi
Member
+0|6898|San Diego, CA, USA
Just some food for thought, all of the movies you have listed are about Army engagements. The USMC had no hand in any of those movies. Although they are both US ground forces, the Marines and the Army are two completely different entities.
-101-InvaderZim
Member
+42|7112|Waikato, Aotearoa
I was about to say the same thing mensi.

Rangers are US Army. Anybody know what the Marine equivilent is?
Would it be Force Recon (or is that like Delta??)

FYI my favourite war film is BHD
a_n00bt00b
Member
+0|6924
Plus, for BHD, we don't use children for military ops, so we didn't know that kid was actually waving a phone to show helis, it is not a lack of brains, it is our lack of dirty tactics like that.

Last edited by a_n00bt00b (2006-03-07 16:20:31)

herrr_smity
Member
+156|6896|space command ur anus
marines isent that the navy like the seals
Mensi
Member
+0|6898|San Diego, CA, USA
Living in San Diego (home of most Marines and many Navy on the west coast) gives you a little bit of insight as to how the military functions in the United States. If there are any real Marines on this forum, please correct me by all means. The following is kind of a short abbreviated crash course for non-US citizens (whom I've found, like myself, are absurdly educated about the military).

The USMC are a department of the Navy (but still officially a seperate division of the Armed Forces), not like the SEALS which are purely Navy and very small in numbers.

In contrast the Army is much larger than the Marines, completely independent of all other branches, and a whole different way of thinking (ask someone about joining the army vs. joining the marines). There is a strong argument that due to intense training the average Marine is always a combat ready marine, and much more hardcore than an Army soldier. You would have to take this up with the Army though, they are bound to disagree

The USMC equivilent to the Army Rangers would be the various MEU (Marine Expeditionary Unit) groups that exist on the west and east coasts. Most of the equipment in the game for the USMC I believe is modeled after a Marine MEU.

Last edited by Mensi (2006-03-07 18:36:24)

FubarJonny
bUdSMoKEr
+47|6958

theDude5B wrote:

Was watching Black Hawk Down the other day, and realised that Warlord has the blackhawk down in the square just like the movie.

It got me thinking about many war movies which come out of hollywood.

Black Hawk Down, We Were Soldiers, The Thin Red Line, Hamburger Hill etc...

now these movies are all good, but it just shows how dumb the USMC really are. These movies are all based on true events, and they all involve many soldiers loosing their lives because the person in charge sends the army into a place which they are not sure of, and then the troops end up in a massive battle.

It is funny though that movies are made about these events, because really they are just saying how dumb the generals are, and it is down to the lower ranked soldiers to sort out the mess!

just a thought...
well im blakc hawk down the general had no clue the amount of insurgents were in they area they thought it was going to be a snatch and grab and so the general had no clue of what was going to happen like anyone there so you cant blame the general for anythink he was trying his best to get them all out alive.  I am a navy cadet and i still have a great respect for the marines they are not just stupid grunts like eveyone thinks they but well they still do ride in navy equipment

M-y
A-ss
R-ides
I-n
N-avy
E-equipment
Thumper04
"So there I was..."
+7|6896|Floriduh
One word that should stand out and make you wonder.

HOLLYWOOD

Remember, hollywood is all about drama, not necessarily the truth. It is a movie, after all. There were TONS of blatant errors in BHD. Everything from who was where to some of the events. (Ie. Sgt Eversman [Josh Hartnet's carachter] was pulled out in the first convoy to leave, and didn't return, instead of staying for the duration of the engagement) Go read Mike Durants book, or listen to the Air Force PJ (Tim Wilkinson) that was there tell the story himself. (He's a great storyteller by the way)
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|6982|US
Well, what would the conflict be if the US just kicked ass in a movie?  Hollywood uses stories like this because they are that much more dramatic and emotional.
Eagle
Togs8896 is my evil alter ego
+567|6899|New Hampshire, USA
I just find it amazing that through out the whole blackhawk down movie, the somolians lost about 1,000+ guys... and we lost only (about) 19 marines.  Thats damn good skill
https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/14407/Sig_Pats.jpg
jonnykill
The Microwave Man
+235|6947

theDude5B wrote:

Was watching Black Hawk Down the other day, and realised that Warlord has the blackhawk down in the square just like the movie.

It got me thinking about many war movies which come out of hollywood.

Black Hawk Down, We Were Soldiers, The Thin Red Line, Hamburger Hill etc...

now these movies are all good, but it just shows how dumb the USMC really are. These movies are all based on true events, and they all involve many soldiers loosing their lives because the person in charge sends the army into a place which they are not sure of, and then the troops end up in a massive battle.

It is funny though that movies are made about these events, because really they are just saying how dumb the generals are, and it is down to the lower ranked soldiers to sort out the mess!

just a thought...
Going into areas they aren't sure of ? How dumb the USMC really is by sending troops into a massive battle ? How dumb the Generals really are ?

Well if you really did watch Black Hawk down you would remember the survailience they did identifying the warlords they were after . Remember the guy getting picked up by the chopper in the middle of the desert tossing his bicycle in the chopper ? What about the informant they used to identify the building the warlord was at . Remeber the x marked on top of the taxi ? They did pleanty of survailience and planned an attack .
As far as Generals go they could get any job done given to them but there are rules they must abide by . The General in control of this particular mission wanted AC-103 support by Clinton denied the aircraft paronoid it would cause massive civillian casualties .
War isn't perfect . No all intel is good intel . Intell takes time and time changes the factual merit of such intel . With that siad things change and mistakes are made . Soldiers under good command take matters into thier own hands and adjust to the situation . And yes people die in war . It's not so much the Generals fault . Anything can happen and when everything seems to go as planned things will fall apart at some point and you will have to improvise .
Now in this particular true event we had 99 troops go into a foreign country ad hold off about 8000 - 10,000 militia . The fact that only 18 of them got killed in combat and the rest made it out is nothing short of a friggin miracle . Weather they had air support or not , thoes guys kicked ass .
DarkObsidian
Member
+6|6904|Arizona, USA

theDude5B wrote:

Was watching Black Hawk Down the other day, and realised that Warlord has the blackhawk down in the square just like the movie.

It got me thinking about many war movies which come out of hollywood.

Black Hawk Down, We Were Soldiers, The Thin Red Line, Hamburger Hill etc...

now these movies are all good, but it just shows how dumb the USMC really are. These movies are all based on true events, and they all involve many soldiers loosing their lives because the person in charge sends the army into a place which they are not sure of, and then the troops end up in a massive battle.

It is funny though that movies are made about these events, because really they are just saying how dumb the generals are, and it is down to the lower ranked soldiers to sort out the mess!

just a thought...
You are a fucking idiot. You are the type of person who should not be allowed to breed nor breath.
Before you share your fucked up views on life, you need to do some research.
First off, as said above, the movies you listed are US Army.
Calling the USMC dumb.... wow... I have the sudden urge to crush your windpipe for that one. Do you do realize our USMC is more trained than that spec of dirt your country calls an army?
Marines are Marines, not soldiers, learn the difference. Losing their lives because the person in charge sends the army into a place they are not sure of... Do you think about what you type before you do so? Again, the U.S. military gathers more intel on another country than you even know about your own, it's near impossible to determine what your enemy will do at all times.
How dumb the generals are? Jesus christ... the generals have gone through more colledge and training than you ever will in your lifetime. Shit happens, deal with it.

In conclusion, you've expressed great ignorence in judging the United States Marine Corps, the most elite fighting force to ever rear it's head.

Shut the fuck up unless you know what you're talking about bitch.
DarkObsidian
Member
+6|6904|Arizona, USA

-101-InvaderZim wrote:

I was about to say the same thing mensi.

Rangers are US Army. Anybody know what the Marine equivilent is?
Would it be Force Recon (or is that like Delta??)

FYI my favourite war film is BHD
Marines don't need as many elite branches as the rest of the military.
The Marine equivilant to an Army ranger is a Marine.
When you compare specials forces etc. then Force Recon is most like the Navy's SEALs, however, Force Recon is much more physically and mentally demanding than the SEALs.
sabotwulf
Member
+3|6957|So.Cal

-101-InvaderZim wrote:

I was about to say the same thing mensi.

Rangers are US Army. Anybody know what the Marine equivilent is?
Would it be Force Recon (or is that like Delta??)

FYI my favourite war film is BHD
The equivilent for the Rangers is the USMC infantry.  Marines can lat move over to the Rangers once thier enlistment is done with the Corps.  Once you get into the Special Operations Capable area there really isn't an equal for any of them.  They all have differant job scopes.  Granted all have relatively the same means training they are just used in different aspects. 

I myself started as a regular grunt with 1 Bat 5th Mar Div. B Co., I ended my enlistment as an E-4 with  1st Reconnaissance Co. in 98. Now I am a LEO with the DHS.
(T)eflon(S)hadow
R.I.P. Neda
+456|7097|Grapevine, TX
theDude5B

Well I guess your not in the military, and don't know any better, but those are all US ARMY movies you listed. Marines were in some of those conflicts, but the movies were focused on them.

Quick History Lesson
The United States Navy:The United States Navy traces its origins to the Continental Navy, which the Continental Congress established on 13 October 1775 by authorizing the procurement, fitting out, manning, and dispatch of two armed vessels to cruise in search of munitions ships supplying the British Army in America. The United States Navy traces its origins to the Continental Navy, which the Continental Congress established on 13 October 1775 by authorizing the procurement, fitting out, manning, and dispatch of two armed vessels to cruise in search of munitions ships supplying the British Army in America.  traces its origins to the Continental Navy, which the Continental Congress established on 13 October 1775 by authorizing the procurement, fitting out, manning, and dispatch of two armed vessels to cruise in search of munitions ships supplying the British Army in America.

The United States Marine Corps: On November 10, 1775, the Continental Congress meeting in Philadelphia passed a resolution stating that "two Battalions of Marines be raised" for service as landing forces with the fleet. This resolution, established the Continental Marines and marked the birth date of the United States Marine Corps. Serving on land and at sea, these first Marines distinguished themselves in a number of important operations, including their first amphibious raid into the Bahamas in March 1776, under the command of Captain (later Major) Samuel Nicholas. Nicholas, the first commissioned officer in the Continental Marines, remained the senior Marine officer throughout the American Revolution and is considered to be the first Marine Commandant. The Treaty of Paris in April 1783 brought an end to the Revolutionary War and as the last of the Navy's ships were sold, the Continental Navy and Marines went out of existence.

The US Army:  On June 14, 1799 , the U.S. Army celebrates its birthday, marking its origins as a national institution from the day the Continental Congress passed legislation forming an Army for the British Colonies united in rebellion.

The US Air Force:  In 1917, upon the United States' entry into World War I, the U.S. Army Air Service was formed as part of the American Expeditionary Force (AEF). In 1926 the Air Service was reorganized as a branch of the Army and became the U.S. Army Air Corps (USAAC).World War II led to further changes. In 1941, the Army Air Corps became the U.S. Army Air Force and the GHQ Air Force was re designated the Air Force Combat Command. In the major military reorganization effective March 9, 1942, the newly designated United States Army Air Forces gained equal voice with the Army and Navy. The United States Department of the Air Force was created when President Harry S. Truman signed the National Security Act of 1947.

After that brief history review, yes the USMC is a Department of the Navy, following the National Security Act of 1947.
A basic trained US Marine has passed rigorous boot camp qualification's such as, but not limited to: Water Survival, Rifle Qualification, Miles of formation Drills, Military History, Military Customs, the CS Gas Chamber Qualification, and a 54 hour event called the Crucible (50-60 miles on foot with one and a half meals and maybe 4 hours of sleep, you are called a Marine for the first time). Every Marine is a Rifleman, from the cooks to the Generals.
And yes a basic trained Marine is equivalent to a Army Ranger graduate.
And yes the Navy are our chauffeurs that take us around the world. (Thanks sailors)
DarkObsidian
Member
+6|6904|Arizona, USA

(T)eflon(S)hadow wrote:

theDude5B

Well I guess your not in the military, and don't know any better, but those are all US ARMY movies you listed. Marines were in some of those conflicts, but the movies were focused on them.

Quick History Lesson
The United States Navy:The United States Navy traces its origins to the Continental Navy, which the Continental Congress established on 13 October 1775 by authorizing the procurement, fitting out, manning, and dispatch of two armed vessels to cruise in search of munitions ships supplying the British Army in America. The United States Navy traces its origins to the Continental Navy, which the Continental Congress established on 13 October 1775 by authorizing the procurement, fitting out, manning, and dispatch of two armed vessels to cruise in search of munitions ships supplying the British Army in America.  traces its origins to the Continental Navy, which the Continental Congress established on 13 October 1775 by authorizing the procurement, fitting out, manning, and dispatch of two armed vessels to cruise in search of munitions ships supplying the British Army in America.

The United States Marine Corps: On November 10, 1775, the Continental Congress meeting in Philadelphia passed a resolution stating that "two Battalions of Marines be raised" for service as landing forces with the fleet. This resolution, established the Continental Marines and marked the birth date of the United States Marine Corps. Serving on land and at sea, these first Marines distinguished themselves in a number of important operations, including their first amphibious raid into the Bahamas in March 1776, under the command of Captain (later Major) Samuel Nicholas. Nicholas, the first commissioned officer in the Continental Marines, remained the senior Marine officer throughout the American Revolution and is considered to be the first Marine Commandant. The Treaty of Paris in April 1783 brought an end to the Revolutionary War and as the last of the Navy's ships were sold, the Continental Navy and Marines went out of existence.

The US Army:  On June 14, 1799 , the U.S. Army celebrates its birthday, marking its origins as a national institution from the day the Continental Congress passed legislation forming an Army for the British Colonies united in rebellion.

The US Air Force:  In 1917, upon the United States' entry into World War I, the U.S. Army Air Service was formed as part of the American Expeditionary Force (AEF). In 1926 the Air Service was reorganized as a branch of the Army and became the U.S. Army Air Corps (USAAC).World War II led to further changes. In 1941, the Army Air Corps became the U.S. Army Air Force and the GHQ Air Force was re designated the Air Force Combat Command. In the major military reorganization effective March 9, 1942, the newly designated United States Army Air Forces gained equal voice with the Army and Navy. The United States Department of the Air Force was created when President Harry S. Truman signed the National Security Act of 1947.

After that brief history review, yes the USMC is a Department of the Navy, following the National Security Act of 1947.
A basic trained US Marine has passed rigorous boot camp qualification's such as, but not limited to: Water Survival, Rifle Qualification, Miles of formation Drills, Military History, Military Customs, the CS Gas Chamber Qualification, and a 54 hour event called the Crucible (50-60 miles on foot with one and a half meals and maybe 4 hours of sleep, you are called a Marine for the first time). Every Marine is a Rifleman, from the cooks to the Generals.
And yes a basic trained Marine is equivalent to a Army Ranger graduate.
And yes the Navy are our chauffeurs that take us around the world. (Thanks sailors)
Hate to have to correct you, but the Marines are no longer a branch of the Navy. They're an independant force.

EDIT: I'm sure you know this, just making sure they know it. You may have just worded it wrong

Last edited by DarkObsidian (2006-03-08 01:31:05)

theDude5B
Cool member
+804|7018
no no no no, i dont mean that they are idiots in real life, just that the movies portray the higher ranks as sending in the troops to hostile areas to which they are then subject to a massive battle and lose of many lives.

Also appologies for calling them USMC, just couldnt remember the exact force in each of the movies.

As in black hawk down, they did do all the thing about getting the guy to drive up in the car, and did their work on finding out about where the bad guy was and where to go. But they also did say that it was hostile territory and they had to watch out. But then when things hotted up, they did send the convoy into a worse area and try to get them to go down roads with blockages. Giving the view the impression that the higher command should listen to the troops on the ground and not just give them orders.
(T)eflon(S)hadow
R.I.P. Neda
+456|7097|Grapevine, TX

DarkObsidian wrote:

Hate to have to correct you, but the Marines are no longer a branch of the Navy. They're an independent force.

EDIT: I'm sure you know this, just making sure they know it. You may have just worded it wrong
Umm no I'm not. I am A US Marine, and we are still a Department of the US Navy. We are the only branch of the US Military that can be called into action with out an act of War and/or Congress's approval. All it takes is one phone call from POTUS. We  are not an "independent force". What is that supposed to mean? Where did you learn this? Please let me know.  It would take an act of Congress to separate the USMC from the Navy.

Last edited by (T)eflon(S)hadow (2006-03-08 02:27:47)

DarkObsidian
Member
+6|6904|Arizona, USA
I'll look for that information for you, I plan on joining the Marines myself
I recall reading a document stating that the Marines is it's own branch of the US Military and is no longer apart of the Navy.

EDIT: I've found something that confirms what I meant, but not what I said You were correct, I just did not realize that the Navy and the Department of the Navy were two different things.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Unite … discussion
"The Marines are part of the DEPARTMENT of the Navy. The Department of the Navy is NOT the same thing as the US Navy. Both the US Navy and the US Marine Corps are under that Department, so one is not part of the other."

As in black hawk down, they did do all the thing about getting the guy to drive up in the car, and did their work on finding out about where the bad guy was and where to go. But they also did say that it was hostile territory and they had to watch out. But then when things hotted up, they did send the convoy into a worse area and try to get them to go down roads with blockages. Giving the view the impression that the higher command should listen to the troops on the ground and not just give them orders.
Well, if you were paying attention, the convoy was not the problem at all. The problem arose when the first Blackhawk went down and the convoy was assigned to secure the crash site and rescue any survivors. This is a little something called "Leave no man behind".

Last edited by DarkObsidian (2006-03-08 03:20:11)

(T)eflon(S)hadow
R.I.P. Neda
+456|7097|Grapevine, TX
DarkObsidian: Glad you found the information out for yourself.  It's not the most common knowledge known about our armed forces. Good luck if you choose any branch, and if you make it you earn the right to be called a Marine, well OOH RAH, Devil Dog! You will have a new sense of pride knowing that you are a member of the largest fraternity in the world. Before you go to boot camp, keep up with your crunches, running at least 1.5 miles in under 12 mins. and try to get up to 20 pull-ups! That will help you a lot in your future, for promotions, and being a chick-magnet!

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