Are you a more literate version of lowing?Kuffar wrote:
Freedom on the back foot in Britain:
http://article.nationalreview.com/print … U2YTMwYzc=
I'm so tired of the BS argument that America was founded on christian principles. Tell me how many of the 10 commandments are in our Constitution? Tell me which principles from the Constitution are in the Bible or Koran. Better yet, find the ones that are in the Bible and tell me they're not in all the non-judeo religions. It's all crap. No stealing and no killing are in the Bible. Big shit. Those are pretty universal laws. Animals don't even allow that.Kuffar wrote:
What is scary about it is that the school apparently found only quotes from the Declaration of Independence and other messages directly related to America's formation as potentially offensive. It sought only to suppress US culture which is whether you like it or not based on judeo-christian principles and not messages that reference other religious cultures, particularly Islam.
For every case that is fought and won a thousand others go by unfought and surrendered. This is how freedom dies and countries are lost.
I know. I live in Londonistan.
Propaganda, you say? The only vague message is that it has just a dash of religion in it by containing hte word "God". As the article said 'Benitez said the banners aren't religious and “do not advocate” for the divine. “Instead they highlight historic and patriotic themes that in themselves have acknowledged God's existence,” he said.' Why don't we block all classrooms from even having the words to Declaration of Independence or Pledge of Allegiance in it? The reason is because the messages aren't inherently religious and they in no way compromise the secular nature of the school.chittydog wrote:
It worries me a little that religious propaganda is allowed in the classroom. What worries me a lot is that he's able to get away with it because the courts are too scared to look unpatriotic since his signs have some vague "Go America" message behind all the x-tian nonsense.
Why is separation of church and state so hard for people to understand?
It's not that I believe the US constitution flows directly from the New Testament. It's that, thank god, the cornerstone of America is the ideal that 'all men are created equal'. Created. By God. Unalienable rights endowed by their Creator.chittydog wrote:
I'm so tired of the BS argument that America was founded on christian principles. Tell me how many of the 10 commandments are in our Constitution? Tell me which principles from the Constitution are in the Bible or Koran. Better yet, find the ones that are in the Bible and tell me they're not in all the non-judeo religions. It's all crap. No stealing and no killing are in the Bible. Big shit. Those are pretty universal laws. Animals don't even allow that.Kuffar wrote:
What is scary about it is that the school apparently found only quotes from the Declaration of Independence and other messages directly related to America's formation as potentially offensive. It sought only to suppress US culture which is whether you like it or not based on judeo-christian principles and not messages that reference other religious cultures, particularly Islam.
For every case that is fought and won a thousand others go by unfought and surrendered. This is how freedom dies and countries are lost.
I know. I live in Londonistan.
People get too hung up on things they have an emotional attachment to. Even if those passages are in the Declaration of Independence, that was written years before our Constitution mandated separation of church and state. There's no reason to deny those excerpts, but it's foolish to glorify the hypocrisy of our forefathers.
Not at all. However the part you're glossing over is that these are things only done by extremists, not your average Muslim. So yes, classifying an entire religion as being like this when it is in fact a tiny minority does make you a racist.Kuffar wrote:
No. What is getting me down is the Islamification of Europe in general and the UK in particular.
What is getting me down is being called a racist because I won't accept cultural and religious practices that are barbaric and medieval.
In no particular order:
-forced marriage
-female genital mutilation
-honour killing
-the formal subjegation and isolation of women
-the belief that homosexuality should be punished by death
-the belief that a Muslim that leaves Islam must be killed
-that Jews are monkeys and Christians pigs
I could go on.
Are you down with all that?
Last edited by ghettoperson (2008-09-12 08:16:57)
I'm not glossing over the fact that most Muslims in the UK would not dream of carrying out the top three. I readily admit that and am grateful for it. The fact is though that all three practices are happening today in 21st century Britain. You can't gloss over that my friend.ghettoperson wrote:
Not at all. However the part you're glossing over is that these are things only done by extremists, not your average Muslim. So yes, classifying an entire religion as being like this when it is in fact a tiny minority does make you a racist.Kuffar wrote:
No. What is getting me down is the Islamification of Europe in general and the UK in particular.
What is getting me down is being called a racist because I won't accept cultural and religious practices that are barbaric and medieval.
In no particular order:
-forced marriage
-female genital mutilation
-honour killing
-the formal subjegation and isolation of women
-the belief that homosexuality should be punished by death
-the belief that a Muslim that leaves Islam must be killed
-that Jews are monkeys and Christians pigs
I could go on.
Are you down with all that?
Last edited by Kuffar (2008-09-12 08:28:25)
1.3% of your precious UK is muslim. Hardly 'Islamfication'.Kuffar wrote:
No. What is getting me down is the Islamification of Europe in general and the UK in particular.
What is getting me down is being called a racist because I won't accept cultural and religious practices that are barbaric and medieval.
In no particular order:
-forced marriage
-female genital mutilation
-honour killing
-the formal subjegation and isolation of women
-the belief that homosexuality should be punished by death
-the belief that a Muslim that leaves Islam must be killed
-that Jews are monkeys and Christians pigs
I could go on.
Are you down with all that?
Created equal only means "by god" to people who believe in god. I don't believe people are created that way at all, but they all deserve equal rights and opportunities.Kuffar wrote:
It's not that I believe the US constitution flows directly from the New Testament. It's that, thank god, the cornerstone of America is the ideal that 'all men are created equal'. Created. By God. Unalienable rights endowed by their Creator.chittydog wrote:
I'm so tired of the BS argument that America was founded on christian principles. Tell me how many of the 10 commandments are in our Constitution? Tell me which principles from the Constitution are in the Bible or Koran. Better yet, find the ones that are in the Bible and tell me they're not in all the non-judeo religions. It's all crap. No stealing and no killing are in the Bible. Big shit. Those are pretty universal laws. Animals don't even allow that.Kuffar wrote:
What is scary about it is that the school apparently found only quotes from the Declaration of Independence and other messages directly related to America's formation as potentially offensive. It sought only to suppress US culture which is whether you like it or not based on judeo-christian principles and not messages that reference other religious cultures, particularly Islam.
For every case that is fought and won a thousand others go by unfought and surrendered. This is how freedom dies and countries are lost.
I know. I live in Londonistan.
People get too hung up on things they have an emotional attachment to. Even if those passages are in the Declaration of Independence, that was written years before our Constitution mandated separation of church and state. There's no reason to deny those excerpts, but it's foolish to glorify the hypocrisy of our forefathers.
I know that the unending struggle of the left is to remove God from the public square entirely. But you will miss him when he's gone.
Last edited by chittydog (2008-09-12 08:53:18)
Show me where "God bless America" or "God shed his grace on thee" is in the Declaration. This guy wants to use government property as a forum for his religious beliefs and is lucky enough to be able to hide it behind a shroud of patriotism.DesertFox- wrote:
Propaganda, you say? The only vague message is that it has just a dash of religion in it by containing hte word "God". As the article said 'Benitez said the banners aren't religious and “do not advocate” for the divine. “Instead they highlight historic and patriotic themes that in themselves have acknowledged God's existence,” he said.' Why don't we block all classrooms from even having the words to Declaration of Independence or Pledge of Allegiance in it? The reason is because the messages aren't inherently religious and they in no way compromise the secular nature of the school.chittydog wrote:
It worries me a little that religious propaganda is allowed in the classroom. What worries me a lot is that he's able to get away with it because the courts are too scared to look unpatriotic since his signs have some vague "Go America" message behind all the x-tian nonsense.
Why is separation of church and state so hard for people to understand?
Is that copy and paste of percentages meant to dazzle me? It doesn not distract form the FACT that muslims still make up 1.3% of the UK population. If you're still not getting it out of 60million people that is a very small amount i.e. contrary to your daily mail reading misguided ass.Kuffar wrote:
[snip from wikipedia]
In England 40% of Muslims live in London, where they make up 8.5% of the population. There are also large numbers of Muslims in Birmingham, Manchester, Bradford, Luton, Slough, Leicester and the mill towns of Northern England. In Scotland there are significant Muslim populations in Glasgow (17667, 3.1%), East Renfrewshire (1897, 2.1%), Dundee (2846, 2.0%) and Edinburgh (6801, 1.5%). In Wales most Muslims live in Cardiff (11261, 3,7%), but there are also significant numbers in Newport (3492, 2.6%) and Swansea (2167, 1.0%). Muslims are concentrated in urban areas, where they make up 3.3% of the population; In rural areas the proportion of the population is less than 0.1%.
Muslim population in English local authority areas.The local authorities with a Muslim population greater than 10% are:
London Borough of Tower Hamlets 36.4% 71,389
London Borough of Newham 24.3% 59,293
Blackburn with Darwen 19.4% 26,674
City of Bradford 16.1% 75,188
London Borough of Waltham Forest 15.1% 32,902
Luton 14.6% 26,963
Birmingham 14.3% 139,771
London Borough of Hackney 13.8% 27,908
Pendle 13.4% 11,988
Slough 13.4% 15,897
London Borough of Brent 12.3% 32,290
London Borough of Redbridge 11.9% 28,487
City of Westminster 11.8% 21,346
London Borough of Camden 11.6% 22,906
London Borough of Haringey 11.3% 24,371
Metropolitan Borough of Oldham 11.1% 24,039
Leicester 11.0% 30,885
London Borough of Ealing 10.3% 31,033
Kirklees 10.1% 39,312
Welcome to bf2s debate shitpicker.Kuffar wrote:
Now you have given up debating and fallen back on insults and smears. You fail.
firstly. 1.3%Kuffar wrote:
No. What is getting me down is the Islamification of Europe in general and the UK in particular.
What is getting me down is being called a racist because I won't accept cultural and religious practices that are barbaric and medieval.
In no particular order:
-forced marriage
-female genital mutilation
-honour killing
-the formal subjegation and isolation of women
-the belief that homosexuality should be punished by death
-the belief that a Muslim that leaves Islam must be killed
-that Jews are monkeys and Christians pigs
I could go on.
Are you down with all that?
That's fair enough for you and your beliefs, my point is only to support the idea that America's ideals of freedom and rights originally flowed from and were informed by a Christian view of the world. I also recognise that the separation of church and state is a key prequisite of the limitation of state power and a guarantor of personal freedom. I would probably argue that a school teacher having posters on his wall which mention God as well as quoting America's holiest document does not mount an assault on that separation.chittydog wrote:
Created equal only means "by god" to people who believe in god. I don't believe people are created that way at all, but they all deserve equal rights and opportunities.Kuffar wrote:
It's not that I believe the US constitution flows directly from the New Testament. It's that, thank god, the cornerstone of America is the ideal that 'all men are created equal'. Created. By God. Unalienable rights endowed by their Creator.chittydog wrote:
I'm so tired of the BS argument that America was founded on christian principles. Tell me how many of the 10 commandments are in our Constitution? Tell me which principles from the Constitution are in the Bible or Koran. Better yet, find the ones that are in the Bible and tell me they're not in all the non-judeo religions. It's all crap. No stealing and no killing are in the Bible. Big shit. Those are pretty universal laws. Animals don't even allow that.
People get too hung up on things they have an emotional attachment to. Even if those passages are in the Declaration of Independence, that was written years before our Constitution mandated separation of church and state. There's no reason to deny those excerpts, but it's foolish to glorify the hypocrisy of our forefathers.
I know that the unending struggle of the left is to remove God from the public square entirely. But you will miss him when he's gone.
I won't miss religion being removed from the government. Religion in people's private life is probably a good thing, as it keeps some of them out of trouble.
Forced marriageVilham wrote:
firstly. 1.3%Kuffar wrote:
No. What is getting me down is the Islamification of Europe in general and the UK in particular.
What is getting me down is being called a racist because I won't accept cultural and religious practices that are barbaric and medieval.
In no particular order:
-forced marriage
-female genital mutilation
-honour killing
-the formal subjegation and isolation of women
-the belief that homosexuality should be punished by death
-the belief that a Muslim that leaves Islam must be killed
-that Jews are monkeys and Christians pigs
I could go on.
Are you down with all that?
Second. Most Muslims I have met in England are actually incredibly British as they are like 2nd or 3rd generation.
thirdly. I have yet to actually hear of any of the above being used or believed or happening in Britain, and when it does happen its by the quacks.
So what was your point again?
I wasn't referring to those statements specifically, but they are part of the history and culture of this country and thus, not a pure religious maxim.chittydog wrote:
Show me where "God bless America" or "God shed his grace on thee" is in the Declaration. This guy wants to use government property as a forum for his religious beliefs and is lucky enough to be able to hide it behind a shroud of patriotism.DesertFox- wrote:
Propaganda, you say? The only vague message is that it has just a dash of religion in it by containing hte word "God". As the article said 'Benitez said the banners aren't religious and “do not advocate” for the divine. “Instead they highlight historic and patriotic themes that in themselves have acknowledged God's existence,” he said.' Why don't we block all classrooms from even having the words to Declaration of Independence or Pledge of Allegiance in it? The reason is because the messages aren't inherently religious and they in no way compromise the secular nature of the school.chittydog wrote:
It worries me a little that religious propaganda is allowed in the classroom. What worries me a lot is that he's able to get away with it because the courts are too scared to look unpatriotic since his signs have some vague "Go America" message behind all the x-tian nonsense.
Why is separation of church and state so hard for people to understand?