BF2S Forums Dozy actress opens gob without thinking!

lol @ Brits getting their knickers in a twist because an actress says her ""heart just broke for the cause" well guess what fuckos? Republicanism is a legitimate cause, deal with the fact that your state isn't wanted on this island by the vast majority of the entire island of Ireland's population.  Now bullshit British propaganda  is being washed away, and the truth will out about the  State's dealings in the north of Ireland you can't control it anymore..

The_Guardsman wrote:

IG-Calibre wrote:

lol @ Brits getting their knickers in a twist because an actress says her "heart just broke for the cause" well guess what fuckos? Republicanism is a legitimate cause, deal with the fact that your state isn't wanted on this island by the vast majority of the entire island of Ireland's population.  Now bullshit British propaganda  is being washed away, and the truth will out about the  State's dealings in the north of Ireland you can't control it anymore..

Yes very good.
State's dealings in the north? Oh do tell please. What British propaganda? What about all the propaganda that the IRA was shouting about to raise funds?

The thread was originally about a dozy cow, that has no idea of what happened over there. Saying something stupid. You can at least agree on that!

I for see this topic getting out of hand. MODs lock when ever you feel like it.

From your post you seem to be getting your knickers in a twist because she said her "heart just broke for the cause" she doesn't have to have lived here for her to say her heart broke for the cause, any patriotic American would (if she is American) why? because they live in a fucking Republic! they believe in republican principles and adherence to them. . Republicanism is a legitimate cause, so fair play to her saying it's a cause she believed in..  "What British propaganda" is for a different thread but here's something to get you started http://www.themcgurksbarmassacre.com  or just use the search function.

Last edited by IG-Calibre (2008-09-12 03:34:06)

oug wrote:

The_Guardsman wrote:

Was she born stupid or did she take bloody lessons??? She probably knows fuck all about what happened over there during the troubles.

The_Guardsman wrote:

State's dealings in the north? Oh do tell please. What British propaganda? What about all the propaganda that the IRA was shouting about to raise funds?

The thread was originally about a dozy cow, that has no idea of what happened over there. Saying something stupid. You can at least agree on that!

So. Jumping up and bashing her because she "knows fuck all" when clearly you belong in the same category of people - who know fuck all about the situation. Nice one chief.

I would'nt say l know fuck all of the situation old boy. I did do a 6 month tour over there and read a few books. I was shot at set on fire and almost blown up. All for fun, not political views. I spoke to some of the people out there. They say most of the riots happen because they're bored. They either start off throwing stones at the opposition. i.e Protestant v Catholic or vise verser. Then when the Army rock up to try and stop it the stones are then thrown straight at the Army. Or they just start throwing at the Army.

So would you be happy if she said l'd support the Taliban because l fell in love with there cause? No l don't think so. IRA are terrorist pure and simple.
The Official IRA went about doing things politically PIRA went about doing it with violence.

How can you justify a cause that left over 3000 dead (1000 were security forces) over 6000 injured. May of these were Innocent people just trying to go about life. Can you also justify the extortion, the punishment beatings, racketeering rings, drugs and arms smuggerling? I bloody could'nt!


Any way this has gotten out of hand. Your views are different to mine and l won't be able to change your views and you would'nt be able to change my views. My view is l think the Actress has'nt got a clue whats shes talking about and the fact Hollwood have re written history...Again! But they you go. I think this should stop here.

Have fun l'm off a cheese sarny, a cup of tea and to watch the Cannonball run

the_guardsman wrote:

"State's dealings in the north? Oh do tell please"

here's an article on how the the British state created and armed the Shankill's UFF "C - company" a supposedly proscribed terrorist organisation

Security forces created Shankill UDA by Ed Moloney, Sunday Tribune

As the RUC carried out Peter Mandelson's orders last Tuesday to arrest Johnny Adair and return him to jail the very air seemed to bristle with outrage and indignation at the damage to the peace process that this so-called paramilitary "mad dog" and his Shankill Road colleagues in 'C' Company, 2nd Battalion, Ulster Freedom Fighters could inflict.

Supporters of the peace process and angry newspaper columnists struggled to find language sufficiently eloquent and wrathful to describe their feelings about the muscled Loyalist leader. Singled out as a great steroid-spawned monster while UVF killers and their pro-peace process political apologists mostly escaped censure, few seemed to doubt that returning Adair to the slammer was the only sane thing to do. It was left to Peter Mandelson, accomplished wordsmith as he is, to say just why.

"The people of Belfast", he solemnly intoned at around the same time as Adair was settling back into his Maghaberry prison cell, "do not want to live under the heel of gangsters and thugs who use old style paramilitary methods for their own ends. It is time for all of us to confront the dark side of Northern Ireland society, the mafia culture created by decades of paramilitary conflict".

Fine words and noble sentiments for most people but deep down there was something unsettling and disturbing about what Mandelson had said, disturbing at least to those who have been following the course of UDA history over the last decade or so.

Mandelson's angry words begged a number of questions: What were these "old style" paramilitary methods, just who did create Johnny Adair's "mafia culture" and what does the "dark side" of Northern Ireland society really look like? To answer these questions, to put Mandelson's attitude to the Shankill UDA into proper context, one must journey back in time over ten years to the late 1980's when Johnny Adair was just an apprentice gunman in 'C' Company slowly hacking his way to the top. Johnny had a tough act to follow.

'C' Company was at that time the most active unit in the UDA. Active means it was killing a lot of people. Nothing peculiar in that, after all that's what Loyalists do. But 'C' Company was unusual in that a high proportion of its targets were either IRA suspects, republicans or high profile people whom most Protestants would regard as republicans. They seemed to be a cut above the average Loyalist gunmen in that they were targetting the Provos more than the general Catholic community.

'C' Company killed Pat Finucane (some of those who pulled the trigger could be seen sporting with Adair on the Shankill last week and at Drumcree in July) and almost killed Belfast councillor Alex Maskey. They plotted to kill Gerry Adams and very nearly pulled it off.

They seemed to kill a lot of people who had accidentally stumbled on the track of British agents in the IRA. The real story of many an apparently sectarian killing in those days may really be of people dying because they saw or heard something they shouldn't have. Either way the Provos were worried about 'C' Company. They seemed to have very good intelligence on the IRA and they did.

The reason 'C' Company knew so much about the IRA was because their intelligence chief, one Brian Nelson was an agent working for a special body of British Military intelligence called the Force Research Unit, better known as FRU, which specialised in running agents deep in the murky world of Loyalist and Republican paramiliarism.

Thanks to military documents unearthed by BBC journalist John Ware and revelations by former FRU members and ex-UDA personnel we now know that FRU was working 'C' Company like the accelerator pedal in a deadly armoured car.

FRU had recruited Nelson, a former British soldier, early on in his UDA career and slowly groomed him for the top intelligence spot. Once Nelson was in place FRU provided him with documents on people the intelligence community wished to have removed and Nelson passed them on to his UDA chiefs who, more often than not, sent gunmen from 'C' Company out to do the bloody deeds.

It was classic Kitsonite counter gang stuff and it didn't stop at arranging murder. A blind eye was turned to racketeering, loan sharking and drug peddling. To do otherwise would have been to put obstacles in the way of 'C' Company's killers. The drug trade in particular took root in the Shankill during this era.

Peter Mandelson might have asked, but didn't, how many of those landrovers, four-wheelers and SUV's that nowadays fly up and down the Shankill Road ferrying paramilitary "community workers" to bookies shops were purchased by the proceeds of a trade that British intelligence and the RUC Special Branch helped to nourish.

Having set 'C' Company on its new course the spooks then set about supplying the tools of the trade. Nelson helped to arrange a huge arms smuggling venture from South Africa in which British missile secrets were traded for guns, rockets and grenades. Although British intelligence knew all about the enterprise only a portion of the weaponry was intercepted.

Guns and grenades smuggled in at that time were used to kill scores of people and some of them were among the weapons that Adair and other 'C' Company personnel were brandishing on the Shankill last weekend in a display which so offended Peter Mandelson that it helped make his mind up to re-imprison Adair.

Another weapon on show last week, according to informed security sources, was a certain light machine gun toted by one heavy set UDA gunman. This weapon was in a hoard of guns stolen from Hollywood barracks in the late 1980's. The UDA was able to raid the heavily protected armoury because they had help from certain RUC officers, collusion that Nelson's handlers must have been fully aware of but did nothing to interdict or pursue. Another weapon in the stolen haul was the Browning pistol used to gun down Pat Finucane. FRU set up 'C' Company as a killing machine and then helped to arm it.

This wasn't however a case of an "out of control" FRU freelancing and breaking the rules. The evidence is that all the spooks were in on the act. The British security service, MI5 certainly knew all about Nelson's activities. They were bound to since MI5 had a desk officer permanently stationed in FRU's HQ who sat in on meetings and who received a copy of every report on Nelson that FRU wrote.

RUC Special Branch knew about Nelson also. FRU's intelligence on Nelson was shared at joint meetings of a body known as the Tasking and Co-ordinating Group (TCG) which planned intelligence and security operations throughout Northern Ireland.

At a higher level FRU's reports would go the Northern Ireland committee of the Joint Intelligence Committee (JIC) in Downing Street and on occasions to the full JIC. It is reasonable therefore to suppose that various British politicians, up to the highest in the land, were aware at least in general terms of what Nelson was doing.

If this is not the "dark side" of Northern Ireland society then goodness knows what is. Peter Mandelson's entreaty that we should all now confront this deadly gloom will be cheered by many, as was his castigation of our "mafia culture", but it might have been more persuasive had he admitted that his spooky friends were as responsible as anyone else for shutting off the light and setting up the dope peddlers. 

So where did Johnny Adair come from? The answer to that question can be found in the late autumn of 1989 when English policeman John Stevens, in Northern Ireland to investigate the leakage of security documents to Loyalists, "discovered" Brian Nelson's existence, arrested, questioned and then charged him.

The shock to the UDA at the discovery of an agent at such a high level sent ripples throughout the organisation. Paranoia at the extent of penetration led to the fall of a whole generation of UDA leaders, especially in 'C' Company's area of influence on the Shankill, and into the breach stepped Johnny Adair.

It is clear now that the British military were dismayed at the loss of Nelson and the rise of Adair. Their subsequent defence for employing the UDA's intelligence chief was partly on the grounds that when he was in situ at least the UDA wasn't killing ordinary Catholics but under Adair, who was not subject to British influence, the UDA had become uncontrollable and unpredictable.

Now 'C' Company didn't care if they killed indiscriminately. 'C' Company's gunmen wouldn't have been human if from then on they didn't suspect the motives of any of their colleagues who suggested targetting IRA members. Killing ordinary Catholics once more became their stock-in-trade.

Was it just a co-incidence then that after this the British were prepared to ban the UDA when for years they had strongly resisted Nationalist demands and pressures for such action? Did they feel obliged to proscribe the UDA since its sharpest edge, 'C' Company, was no longer under their control?

To get to the bottom of the story of Johnny Adair's rise it is necessary to ask just one more question. How did John Stevens discover the existence of Brian Nelson? Of all the British agents active in the UDA and UVF - and the widespread belief is that both groups have been thoroughly penetrated by various intelligence agencies - how did Stevens manage to stumble across this one man and only this one man?

There is an answer to this question. It comes from security sources, now disillusioned by life in the "dark side" of Northern Ireland, and it goes like this.

Brian Nelson wasn't the only British agent in the UDA. The RUC Special Branch also had someone on the inside. His name was Jim Craig and he was a corrupt racketeer and common criminal whose base, like that of 'C' Company, was on the Shankill Road. His lifestyle made him eminently vulnerable to blackmail and the RUC Special Branch had no difficulty recruiting him. His criminal activities were in turn tolerated by the authorities.

But Craig was also greedy and he developed a corrupt relationship with both the INLA and the Provisional IRA. In collaboration with republicans he engineered the deaths of Lennie Murphy, the leader of the Shankill Butchers and a rival for Craig's criminal empire, and the former DUP politician, George Seawright amongst others. For his RUC Special Branch handlers it must have been difficult to discern just who Craig was really working for.

Craig's fate was sealed when UDA leader John McMichael was killed by an IRA booby trap bomb in his car at Christmas 1987 just before he planned to assassinate the IRA's intelligence chief in Belfast. His death set off a major internal investigation by UDA bosses and the finger was pointed at Craig. He was duly gunned down in an east Belfast pub some months later.

The evidence that clinched Craig's assassination was a video tape of Craig meeting his Provisional IRA contact, a man who can now often be seen in Gerry Adams' company up at Stormont. The tape was made by the RUC Special Branch's surveillance unit E4A, two of whose members handed it over to the UDA. Once they saw it the UDA leadership sentenced Craig to death.

Inevitably the video and the information about its origins came into Nelson's hands and he immediately passed on this embarrassing intelligence to his handlers in FRU. At this point, the sources say, begins the hostility between Brian Nelson and the RUC Special Branch.

"He (Nelson) had started to become a major embarrassment to the SB", recalled the security source, "who were concerned at (his) access to information which was regularly highlighting RUC collusion by officers, many of whom had no official sanction".

And that, according to this story, is why the RUC Special Branch "betrayed" Brian Nelson to John Stevens. He was a pawn in a deadly game of rivalry between FRU and the RUC. The longer he stayed in place the more incriminating evidence on the police he would gather. He had to go and his removal was pivotal to subsequent events. Once he was out of the way Johnny Adair was able to muscle his way to the top of the Shankill UDA and the scene was set for the events which created last week's minor crisis in the peace process.

The circle was complete. The British subsidised 'C' Company but lost control when they were forced to sacrifice their agent in the cause of the "dark side's" internal politics. By so doing they paved the way for "mad dog" Johnny to become a threat to the peace process. Without Brian Nelson there would have been no Johnny Adair.

Peter Mandelson and the security forces may decry Adair and all his activities but when all is said and done there can be little doubt, the British created him. If Johnny Adair is a monster he is their monster.

Last edited by IG-Calibre (2008-09-12 04:52:13)

KILLSWITCH wrote:

IG-Calibre wrote:

lol @ Brits getting their knickers in a twist because an actress says her ""heart just broke for the cause" well guess what fuckos? Republicanism is a legitimate cause, deal with the fact that your state isn't wanted on this island by the vast majority of the entire island of Ireland's population.

Yes republicanism is a legitimate cause, I doubt many would dispute that.  What people get pissed off is how people simply overlook the fact that the IRA were a terrorist organisation, and have commited murder on a huge scale.  Fight the British army, fine.  That was the noble cause in which the IRA was initially founded, but as soon as they started murdering innocent men, women and children (of Irish blood no less), all respect goes down the shitter.  Murder is murder, they are no worse than the scum that commited the September 11 / London bombings.  I dare you or any other decent Irishman to stand up and say they condone the heinous acts carried out by the PIRA. 

The Good Friday Agreement, devolution of power in Northern Ireland etc etc shows that democracy was the only way for you to ever have a united Ireland.  Look how far we have come through democracy, that is the legitimate face of republicanism.

Now I've gone and derailed it, but I guess my point is that the aforementioned actress has only experienced the romanticised version of stories about the IRA, if she knew the half of it she would have said fuck all.

Well said.

oug wrote:

The_Guardsman wrote:

Was she born stupid or did she take bloody lessons??? She probably knows fuck all about what happened over there during the troubles.

The_Guardsman wrote:

State's dealings in the north? Oh do tell please. What British propaganda? What about all the propaganda that the IRA was shouting about to raise funds?

The thread was originally about a dozy cow, that has no idea of what happened over there. Saying something stupid. You can at least agree on that!

So. Jumping up and bashing her because she "knows fuck all" when clearly you belong in the same category of people - who know fuck all about the situaton. Nice one chief.

Come on... He was there...

I'm don't get why my name is in your post?

M.O.A.B wrote:

jord wrote:

oug wrote:

The_Guardsman wrote:

Was she born stupid or did she take bloody lessons??? She probably knows fuck all about what happened over there during the troubles.

So. Jumping up and bashing her because she "knows fuck all" when clearly you belong in the same category of people - who know fuck all about the situation. Nice one chief.

Come on... He was there...

Remember now, being there means bugger all, reading media reports and stuff on the net makes you far more knowledgeable of the situation

Being a Brit who did a 6 month tour & who has read a couple of books doesn't make you a fucking authority on the matter.. I was born and raised & lived through the troubles, I was there when people were being burnt out of their homes for being Catholic, i've experienced first hand on several occasions her Majesty's forces & The IRA, i've stood at the graves of innocent friends who were murdered by them, I think i'll keep my own council on what happened I don't need the media..

ghettoperson wrote:

IG-Calibre wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

Remember now, being there means bugger all, reading media reports and stuff on the net makes you far more knowledgeable of the situation

Being a Brit who did a 6 month tour & who has read a couple of books doesn't make you a fucking authority on the matter.. I was born and raised & lived through the troubles, I was there when people were being burnt out of their homes for being Catholic, i've experienced first hand on several occasions her Majesty's forces & The IRA, i've stood at the graves of innocent friends who were murdered by them, I think i'll keep my own council on what happened I don't need the media..

So what's your point? Both the IRA and the British Army did some horrific things. That doesn't mean that joining the IRA is a good idea.

EDIT: Or in the eyes of the Catholics are the IRA the good guys?

Ghetto - Téigh trasna ort féin mo chara, i've stated repeatedly that I don't and never have supported the IRA. that was in response  to GM who seems to think that neither the Crown Forces or the British State never acted inappropriately in the north and to say otherwise is Propaganda & lies & it's exactly that belief that all Catholics supported the IRA which lead to the deaths of many innocent people..

Gabh mo leithscaal, mo chara. You never said it within this thread so I was unsure, and I must have never have seen your previous posts. To be honest, my knowledge of the whole situation is somewhat lacking so I can't really comment on who is at fault where. But going back to the OP, surely you must acknowledge that saying that you'd join the IRA because you supported their cause is downright ignorant?

jord wrote:

IG-Calibre wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

Remember now, being there means bugger all, reading media reports and stuff on the net makes you far more knowledgeable of the situation

Being a Brit who did a 6 month tour & who has read a couple of books doesn't make you a fucking authority on the matter.. I was born and raised & lived through the troubles, I was there when people were being burnt out of their homes for being Catholic, i've experienced first hand on several occasions her Majesty's forces & The IRA, i've stood at the graves of innocent friends who were murdered by them, I think i'll keep my own council on what happened I don't need the media..

Yes but you're extremely bias and bitter. Which doesn't make you a fucking authority on it either.

I'm neither bias or bitter Jord, i'm glad we are where we are now, i'm no bigot and have very close ties with the Loyalist community nor do I hate Protestants. in fact i'm proud of this new paradigm we are building, however the whitewashing by the British state over its actions in the North of Ireland "are" a bone of contention with me indeed  I will always speak out and seek truth and Justice for those victims of British oppression here I don't view your military as quite the heroes as you do.

ghettoperson wrote:

Gabh mo leithscaal, mo chara. You never said it within this thread so I was unsure, and I must have never have seen your previous posts. To be honest, my knowledge of the whole situation is somewhat lacking so I can't really comment on who is at fault where. But going back to the OP, surely you must acknowledge that saying that you'd join the IRA because you supported their cause is downright ignorant?

can't see how it is downright ignorant? if she feels so strongly about the ideals of Republicianism then that is her belief..

The_Guardsman wrote:

IG-Calibre wrote:

lol @ Brits getting their knickers in a twist because an actress says her ""heart just broke for the cause" well guess what fuckos? Republicanism is a legitimate cause, deal with the fact that your state isn't wanted on this island by the vast majority of the entire island of Ireland's population.  Now bullshit British propaganda  is being washed away, and the truth will out about the  State's dealings in the north of Ireland you can't control it anymore..

Yes very good.
State's dealings in the north? Oh do tell please. What British propaganda? What about all the propaganda that the IRA was shouting about to raise funds?

The thread was originally about a dozy cow, that has no idea of what happened over there. Saying something stupid. You can at least agree on that!

I for see this topic getting out of hand. MODs lock when ever you feel like it.

IG supports the IRA so don't expect him to blame them for anything.

Apparently because of what the British army did in NI it makes what the IRA did ok.

Now watch him flat out deny this even though he said was saying throughout the last thread he supported Sein Fein aka a bunch of terrorists who apparently gave up killing people which now makes them decent people.

There are two republican party's in NI guess which one IG supports, yup you got it, the ones who "used" to be terrorists.

Last edited by Vilham (2008-09-12 09:17:12)

Wow.

I hate the IRA. Seriously.

I can't remember the names of the Brits who took a wrong turn and drove into some funeral for an IRA guy or something, but they were surrounded in their jeep, and when one fired a WARNING SHOT they were dragged out, beaten, tortured and, i think one was decapitated. That story broke my heart.

Also, i'm not sure if this is true, but i read this one in a book too:

A soldier was in a train station guarding it, and a woman with a baby started abusing him, calling him names etc. when a man came and got the Brits' attention, and threw a grenade at him. It landed near the woman and baby, and she froze. The soldier jumped on the grenade to sacrifice himself instead of letting two people die.