Poll

Do you agree with the gay marriage approval in California?

Yes67%67% - 112
No27%27% - 45
I don't know0%0% - 0
Plead the fifth3%3% - 5
Other? (Please State)1%1% - 3
Total: 165
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6705|67.222.138.85

FEOS wrote:

That's actually not at all what I said.
Going by:

FEOS wrote:

It doesn't eliminate multitheistic traditions in any way. It doesn't call out a specific god of those traditions, so it by default includes whichever deity those following a multitheistic religion choose.
Firstly, I believe you are using multithesitic incorrectly. Dividing up the word I believe it means multiple religions, not what I think you meant, multiple deities in one religion. Were you looking for polytheism?

Secondly, God is both singular and implies a deity. Neither one of those hold true in every religion, and in fact they only hold true in monotheistic religions. "In God We Trust" could be applied to a Shintoist?

FEOS wrote:

Maybe not to you. It may have started that way, but that's not the way it is now.
No, God is a word in society. Magic is a word in society as well, also a very broad one, but it doesn't cover what makes your lamp light up.

FEOS wrote:

It would appear that the SCOTUS disagrees with you.

wikipedia wrote:

However, the Supreme Court has upheld the motto because it has lost "through rote repitition ... any significant religious content"[9]; so-called acts of "ceremonial deism" that have lost their "history, character, and context".[10]

9. Lynch v. Donnelly, 465 U.S. 668
10. Elk Grove Unified School District et al v. Newdow, 542 U.S. 1
Emphasis added. It is no different than an atheist using the word "god" in any form of conversation. Its use does not in any way imply recognition or endorsement of a specific deity.
Oh right, let me renounce my beliefs and bow to their superior reasoning power.

The fact that it even implies a deity makes it preferential. Godless heathens not welcome here.
TopHat01
Limitless
+117|5903|CA

kylef wrote:

I can't really answer this without religion.

I believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman. I don't agree same sex marriage, however I don't have a problem with, say, a gay couple who are in love. I do believe in God and I do believe that same sex marriage should be prohibited. Why? I think it's a sacred act that should be done only in its purest form.

mtb0minime wrote:

Yes, let them get married. I have gay and bi friends and it sucks that they can't marry the people they love. I'm sick of everyone bringing religion into it and saying it's not natural and all that. Gays are people too and deserve the same rights. It's only a matter of time before it's allowed everywhere. I bet back in the day there was a huge debate about whether blacks and whites should be able to marry, and nowadays the answer is obviously "duh!". Times have changed, now it's time for the laws to change.
I respect your opinion. But here where I live there are countless Gay Pride parades and people claiming for rights when they already have them. They say they don't want to be targeted but then start a parade. I just don't get that. Just because times have changed does not mean law should change. E will still equal MC^2 in hundreds of years I'm sure. Just because it is old, doesn't mean it should change.

Oh, and fyi, I do have gay friends also.
My thoughts exactly.  An off-spring cannot be created with the same sex, simple as that.  The whole "I was born gay" is a complete bullshit response IMO, the act of being homosexual is a lifestyle choice

However, just my opinion.  I live in CA BTW...
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6647

TopHat01 wrote:

kylef wrote:

I can't really answer this without religion.

I believe that marriage should be between a man and a woman. I don't agree same sex marriage, however I don't have a problem with, say, a gay couple who are in love. I do believe in God and I do believe that same sex marriage should be prohibited. Why? I think it's a sacred act that should be done only in its purest form.

mtb0minime wrote:

Yes, let them get married. I have gay and bi friends and it sucks that they can't marry the people they love. I'm sick of everyone bringing religion into it and saying it's not natural and all that. Gays are people too and deserve the same rights. It's only a matter of time before it's allowed everywhere. I bet back in the day there was a huge debate about whether blacks and whites should be able to marry, and nowadays the answer is obviously "duh!". Times have changed, now it's time for the laws to change.
I respect your opinion. But here where I live there are countless Gay Pride parades and people claiming for rights when they already have them. They say they don't want to be targeted but then start a parade. I just don't get that. Just because times have changed does not mean law should change. E will still equal MC^2 in hundreds of years I'm sure. Just because it is old, doesn't mean it should change.

Oh, and fyi, I do have gay friends also.
My thoughts exactly.  An off-spring cannot be created with the same sex, simple as that.  The whole "I was born gay" is a complete bullshit response IMO, the act of being homosexual is a lifestyle choice

However, just my opinion.  I live in CA BTW...
I'm curious, if it's a lifestyle choice why do you then get a lot of gays that are 'in the closet' so to speak, and embarrassed about it? And what about the ones that are happily married and then discover that they're gay? I'm pretty sure if it were simply a lifestyle choice they'd take the easy way out and remain straight.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6489|Northern California

ghettoperson wrote:

I'm curious, if it's a lifestyle choice why do you then get a lot of gays that are 'in the closet' so to speak, and embarrassed about it? And what about the ones that are happily married and then discover that they're gay? I'm pretty sure if it were simply a lifestyle choice they'd take the easy way out and remain straight.
I'm not sure if "being born" gay is understood.  When I read "scientific proof" and other such studies somehow "proving it" (brain size, neural activity, boners for other dudes, etc), I've never come away from that reading convinced of the claim.  I do agree, and my church has even publicly said so, that people are born with many different "tendencies" and attributes.  Does this equate to being defined?  Absolutely not.  But what about if your only sexual desire is for the same sex, and you were raised by [loving heterosexuals;cavemen;apes;on an alien spaceship]?  Should you not then indulge in homosexual behavior?  As always, this question comes down to, yep, "Religious" or other unpopular belief-set based ethics or morals.  Because truly, procreation denotes heterosexuality and the creation of a family, a bloodline, a heritage, a traditional history...and to the religiously minded, eternal life with your family.

Last edited by IRONCHEF (2008-08-26 15:44:39)

Schittloaf
not fulla schit
+23|5901|MN
wow what a bunch of homosexuals in this forum lol
God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6341|tropical regions of london
your post just put the gayness level over the top.
Schittloaf
not fulla schit
+23|5901|MN
your the one with the Obama loves gunslinger pic ..
God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6341|tropical regions of london
cus he does


wait, werent you in the navy for a few months?  I think you take the gay cake.

Last edited by God Save the Queen (2008-08-26 17:51:48)

Schittloaf
not fulla schit
+23|5901|MN
lol yes he does.
God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6341|tropical regions of london
yes we can
Schittloaf
not fulla schit
+23|5901|MN
no we cant ...
God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6341|tropical regions of london
no you cant
xBlackPantherx
Grow up, or die
+142|6341|California

TopHat01 wrote:

My thoughts exactly.  An off-spring cannot be created with the same sex, simple as that.  The whole "I was born gay" is a complete bullshit response IMO, the act of being homosexual is a lifestyle choice

However, just my opinion.  I live in CA BTW...
I'm pretty sure being gay isn't a choice. If you knew anyone gay you would know that.

Btw, its called adoption which is exactly what the tax money is for.
Schittloaf
not fulla schit
+23|5901|MN
would they only adopt gay kids?
xBlackPantherx
Grow up, or die
+142|6341|California

Schittloaf wrote:

would they only adopt gay kids?
Unless the kids stickin his wang into the electrical socket they wouldn't really know.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6409|'Murka

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

FEOS wrote:

That's actually not at all what I said.
Going by:

FEOS wrote:

It doesn't eliminate multitheistic traditions in any way. It doesn't call out a specific god of those traditions, so it by default includes whichever deity those following a multitheistic religion choose.
Firstly, I believe you are using multithesitic incorrectly. Dividing up the word I believe it means multiple religions, not what I think you meant, multiple deities in one religion. Were you looking for polytheism?
Yes. It was early and my energy drink hadn't kicked in yet. However, you clearly knew what I meant, so it's all good.

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

Secondly, God is both singular and implies a deity. Neither one of those hold true in every religion, and in fact they only hold true in monotheistic religions. "In God We Trust" could be applied to a Shintoist?
Perhaps not Shintoism, but certainly not exclusively Christianity, Judaism, or Islam. Or Buddhism. Or Wicca. That's the point. Just because it doesn't recognize or address every possible religion does not make it a violation of the Establishment Clause. The fact that it can easily be applied to many different religions equally makes it line up with the intent and SCOTUS rulings.

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Maybe not to you. It may have started that way, but that's not the way it is now.
No, God is a word in society. Magic is a word in society as well, also a very broad one, but it doesn't cover what makes your lamp light up.
Pfft. Of course it does.

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

FEOS wrote:

It would appear that the SCOTUS disagrees with you.

wikipedia wrote:

However, the Supreme Court has upheld the motto because it has lost "through rote repitition ... any significant religious content"[9]; so-called acts of "ceremonial deism" that have lost their "history, character, and context".[10]

9. Lynch v. Donnelly, 465 U.S. 668
10. Elk Grove Unified School District et al v. Newdow, 542 U.S. 1
Emphasis added. It is no different than an atheist using the word "god" in any form of conversation. Its use does not in any way imply recognition or endorsement of a specific deity.
Oh right, let me renounce my beliefs and bow to their superior reasoning power.

The fact that it even implies a deity makes it preferential. Godless heathens not welcome here.
No, it doesn't. That's what the SCOTUS ruled, and that's what the general consensus appears to be. SCOTUS rules on Constitutionality, not whether your feelings individually are hurt. The argument was whether it violated the First Amendment of the US Constitution. The pre-eminent legal body on questions of Constitutionality deemed that it in fact did not.

Someone doesn't agree with a SCOTUS ruling? That never happens.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6705|67.222.138.85

FEOS wrote:

Perhaps not Shintoism, but certainly not exclusively Christianity, Judaism, or Islam. Or Buddhism. Or Wicca. That's the point. Just because it doesn't recognize or address every possible religion does not make it a violation of the Establishment Clause. The fact that it can easily be applied to many different religions equally makes it line up with the intent and SCOTUS rulings.
That bias is exactly what makes it a problem. The problem is the biased Supreme Court made their ruling based on the realistic circumstance that the moral and proportional background is made up of religions that fit under that clause, and not Constitutional ideology.

FEOS wrote:

No, it doesn't. That's what the SCOTUS ruled, and that's what the general consensus appears to be. SCOTUS rules on Constitutionality, not whether your feelings individually are hurt. The argument was whether it violated the First Amendment of the US Constitution. The pre-eminent legal body on questions of Constitutionality deemed that it in fact did not.

Someone doesn't agree with a SCOTUS ruling? That never happens.
Hell, I'm sure there was dissension even within the Supreme Court, even from those that are supposed to be as equally correct as the ones who ruled in your favor.

I know you were being sarcastic at the end, but that does not change the fact that the Supreme Court is a biased, fallible entity. Dred Scott Decision?
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6409|'Murka

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Perhaps not Shintoism, but certainly not exclusively Christianity, Judaism, or Islam. Or Buddhism. Or Wicca. That's the point. Just because it doesn't recognize or address every possible religion does not make it a violation of the Establishment Clause. The fact that it can easily be applied to many different religions equally makes it line up with the intent and SCOTUS rulings.
That bias is exactly what makes it a problem. The problem is the biased Supreme Court made their ruling based on the realistic circumstance that the moral and proportional background is made up of religions that fit under that clause, and not Constitutional ideology.
A valid point. It interpreted the intent of the clause in the context of the day, and not the strict wording. I think that's part of their charter, but I could be wrong. Are you a strict Constitutionalist?

Flaming_Maniac wrote:

FEOS wrote:

No, it doesn't. That's what the SCOTUS ruled, and that's what the general consensus appears to be. SCOTUS rules on Constitutionality, not whether your feelings individually are hurt. The argument was whether it violated the First Amendment of the US Constitution. The pre-eminent legal body on questions of Constitutionality deemed that it in fact did not.

Someone doesn't agree with a SCOTUS ruling? That never happens.
Hell, I'm sure there was dissension even within the Supreme Court, even from those that are supposed to be as equally correct as the ones who ruled in your favor.

I know you were being sarcastic at the end, but that does not change the fact that the Supreme Court is a biased, fallible entity. Dred Scott Decision?
And that decision was overturned. All it takes is a challenge.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Flaming_Maniac
prince of insufficient light
+2,490|6705|67.222.138.85

FEOS wrote:

A valid point. It interpreted the intent of the clause in the context of the day, and not the strict wording. I think that's part of their charter, but I could be wrong. Are you a strict Constitutionalist?
No, quite the opposite in fact. I don't even personally have a problem with the phrase on my money or elsewhere. I just find that as a matter of fact there is inherent religious bias.

FEOS wrote:

And that decision was overturned. All it takes is a challenge.
I have no doubt there will be one in the near future. The point is does the fact that the Dred Scott Decision was overturned mean that it was wrong in the first place? Alternatively, do we admit that the Supreme Court's "interpretations" of the Constitution are heavily biased by current day politics? In many ways the Supreme Court has made as much impact as Congress in lawmaking, is it right that that group of 9 people who are at best indirectly representing the people are allowed to have that kind of power?
specialistx2324
hahahahahhaa
+244|6687|arica harbour
how do i feel about gay people. first and foremost im not going to beat everyone with the religion rhetoric. gays and strait people can read for themselves. but you got to remember , with gay marriage increasing per year, the birth rate will go down dramatically. ill say it this way: try conceiving with two penises!  the purpose of marriage is procreation not sensation. i could go on to say being homosexual is not acceptable/ its taboo in society since the beginning of time, but people will continue to do it.

but my belief of gay marriage is this: there are certain limits in human nature and in the natural world you just dont mess with.  it is very scary to conflict natural laws/ nature with rights/freedom and privaledges.  positive will always attract a negative charge, there is a sun in the day and a moon in the night, a sperm and egg makes kids,life does not exist without water and oxygen, there is gravity that holds us down, and so on. imagine a world where there is one skin color,one religion or everyone is gay in the world. How would you deal with that world? and ill tell you this: having gay marriages will alter the very definition of a family. In addtion, the existance of humanity would be altered forever because gay rights has construed the very definition of what makes a family.


if other states follow california, sooner or later maybe 20-30 years from now, the traditional family that has existed since the beginning of time will no longer exist. not only that, we are all born with a desire to have a mom and a dad regardless of race, color or religious beliefs. yes there are a lot of bad parents unfortunately.  a mother and a father have different role in raising kids. a father is able to do something that the mom cant and vice versa.  let me ask you this folks:  how will a young adult deal with psychological obstacles when he/she has 2 moms or 2 dads? hmmmm. ill tell you right now its not pretty.

a good number of my friends in High school are gay, to this day i still know them.  , but being gay is a matter of choice, not nature. for example i know someone back in highschool that was strait, had 2 girlfriends in HS and some college, and he is officially gay right now. i just saw his myspace page. people here say that being gay is not about choice but nature. if so then more of the human population would be gay. remember homosexuals constitutes a small part of the population.

from a sociological standpoint: a homosexual relationship of any kind is considered taboo. as a undergrad i took several courses in sociology. one thing my professor taught is that every right / freedom/ priviledge has a severe consequence no matter if it is good or bad.
Diesel_dyk
Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears
+178|5992|Truthistan

specialistx2324 wrote:

how do i feel about gay people. first and foremost im not going to beat everyone with the religion rhetoric. gays and strait people can read for themselves. but you got to remember , with gay marriage increasing per year, the birth rate will go down dramatically. ill say it this way: try conceiving with two penises!  the purpose of marriage is procreation not sensation. i could go on to say being homosexual is not acceptable/ its taboo in society since the beginning of time, but people will continue to do it.

but my belief of gay marriage is this: there are certain limits in human nature and in the natural world you just dont mess with.  it is very scary to conflict natural laws/ nature with rights/freedom and privaledges.  positive will always attract a negative charge, there is a sun in the day and a moon in the night, a sperm and egg makes kids,life does not exist without water and oxygen, there is gravity that holds us down, and so on. imagine a world where there is one skin color,one religion or everyone is gay in the world. How would you deal with that world? and ill tell you this: having gay marriages will alter the very definition of a family. In addtion, the existance of humanity would be altered forever because gay rights has construed the very definition of what makes a family.


if other states follow california, sooner or later maybe 20-30 years from now, the traditional family that has existed since the beginning of time will no longer exist. not only that, we are all born with a desire to have a mom and a dad regardless of race, color or religious beliefs. yes there are a lot of bad parents unfortunately.  a mother and a father have different role in raising kids. a father is able to do something that the mom cant and vice versa.  let me ask you this folks:  how will a young adult deal with psychological obstacles when he/she has 2 moms or 2 dads? hmmmm. ill tell you right now its not pretty.

a good number of my friends in High school are gay, to this day i still know them.  , but being gay is a matter of choice, not nature. for example i know someone back in high school that was strait, had 2 girlfriends in HS and some college, and he is officially gay right now. i just saw his myspace page. people here say that being gay is not about choice but nature. if so then more of the human population would be gay. remember homosexuals constitutes a small part of the population.

from a sociological standpoint: a homosexual relationship of any kind is considered taboo. as a undergrad i took several courses in sociology. one thing my professor taught is that every right / freedom/ priviledge has a severe consequence no matter if it is good or bad.
mmmm perhaps you're missing a category, you friend might be bi-sexual. I have heard that some guys really don't care where they stick it, their not "gay" they just screw anything. And some guys like to have things put in their butts but they are not gay either, they just have fetishes so if you include those people they I could see how you could say that there is a lifestyle choice.

But I have met more than a few gays that are more feminine and girlie than any girl and there is no faking that, those people are not choosing to be like that, they are soooo gay that as a religious person I would have to say that god screwed up, but since he doesn't ever screw up it means that those people are meant to be like that and its not my place to judge them, that's if you read the red writing in the new testament.

And if gay people want to engage in the blessed curse that is marriage then all the best to them.
Drakef
Cheeseburger Logicist
+117|6360|Vancouver

specialistx2324 wrote:

how do i feel about gay people. first and foremost im not going to beat everyone with the religion rhetoric. gays and strait people can read for themselves. but you got to remember , with gay marriage increasing per year, the birth rate will go down dramatically. ill say it this way: try conceiving with two penises!
False, if not an outright lie.

specialistx2324 wrote:

the purpose of marriage is procreation not sensation. i could go on to say being homosexual is not acceptable/ its taboo in society since the beginning of time, but people will continue to do it.
Is the purpose of marriage procreation? Should we not then limit marriages to those couples who produce children? Interestingly enough, the primary reason, by overwhelming majority, for Canadian homosexual couples to marry, is to raise children. Must it be traditional procreation that defines marriage, or simply the raising of children?

specialistx2324 wrote:

but my belief of gay marriage is this: there are certain limits in human nature and in the natural world you just dont mess with.  it is very scary to conflict natural laws/ nature with rights/freedom and privaledges.  positive will always attract a negative charge, there is a sun in the day and a moon in the night, a sperm and egg makes kids,life does not exist without water and oxygen, there is gravity that holds us down, and so on. imagine a world where there is one skin color,one religion or everyone is gay in the world. How would you deal with that world? and ill tell you this: having gay marriages will alter the very definition of a family. In addtion, the existance of humanity would be altered forever because gay rights has construed the very definition of what makes a family.
Essentially, you are saying we should not allow gay marriage become we "just don't mess with" nature? You attempt to make it unnatural not only in a social sense, but by construing it as opposite to the very foundations of our world, such as water, oxygen and gravity, you attempt to make homosexuality something wrong, something that we cannot live with. You exaggerate on such a great level that you fail to register a valid point. There is no point to wondering about "a world where there is one skin color, one religion, or everyone is gay". It does not exist. It is as if we wonder whether the entire world is male- How do we reproduce? Completely pointless, and serves no valid purpose to the discussion.

specialistx2324 wrote:

if other states follow california, sooner or later maybe 20-30 years from now, the traditional family that has existed since the beginning of time will no longer exist. not only that, we are all born with a desire to have a mom and a dad regardless of race, color or religious beliefs. yes there are a lot of bad parents unfortunately.  a mother and a father have different role in raising kids. a father is able to do something that the mom cant and vice versa.  let me ask you this folks:  how will a young adult deal with psychological obstacles when he/she has 2 moms or 2 dads? hmmmm. ill tell you right now its not pretty.
You assume there is psychological damage, but you provide no proof, just the assumption that it is somehow wrong to children. Children are fine with it, as long as we don't bring them up as we have before, teaching them that homosexuality is wrong, or at best, strange and weird. If we do not reinforce this idiotic drivel, then children raised by gay parents will not be psychologically damaged.

specialistx2324 wrote:

a good number of my friends in High school are gay, to this day i still know them.  , but being gay is a matter of choice, not nature. for example i know someone back in highschool that was strait, had 2 girlfriends in HS and some college, and he is officially gay right now. i just saw his myspace page. people here say that being gay is not about choice but nature. if so then more of the human population would be gay. remember homosexuals constitutes a small part of the population.
How do you know it is choice and not nature? Your one example? It may be a classic example of someone struggling with their inner desires because they are being told it is wrong and evil, and finally accepting who they are later in life. It could be an example of someone choosing to be gay, for some reason, be it attention or some misconstrued ideas of his nature. It provides little proof either way. If "being gay is not about choice but nature", then it does not necessarily follow that "more of the human population would be gay". Little logic there.

specialistx2324 wrote:

from a sociological standpoint: a homosexual relationship of any kind is considered taboo. as a undergrad i took several courses in sociology. one thing my professor taught is that every right / freedom/ priviledge has a severe consequence no matter if it is good or bad.
It is considered taboo by many. Why don't we aim to change that? In many countries, including my own, it is no longer taboo, although some of the archaic beliefs of many remain, even in tolerant people.

As for your what your professor taught, I may summarize it quickly: Things have consequences. You can't seriously attempt to use university sociology in some argument against gay marriage, especially one that spells out an obvious trait of rights: Consequences- Which may or may not be bad! Do you not think that possible consequences are weighed before something such as gay marriage comes into law?

Overall, you present zero arguments against gay marriage.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6770|PNW

mtb0minime wrote:

It's only a matter of time before it's allowed everywhere.
Then why are people so anal about it not being completely allowed yet?

God Save the Queen wrote:

cus he does


wait, werent you in the navy for a few months?  I think you take the gay cake.
Yeah, fuck you too.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2008-08-29 00:39:30)

Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5584

Gay marriage campaigners were celebrating a major victory on Tuesday after a federal appeals court ruled California's same-sex marriage ban unconstitutional. The long-awaitedruling paves the way for a US supreme court decision on the voter-approved measure known as Proposition 8.

In a two-to-one decision, a three-judge panel of the ninth US circuit court of appeals in San Francisco agreed with a lower court judge who in 2010 declared the ban to be a violation of the civil rights of gay and lesbian people.

"Proposition 8 serves no purpose, and has no effect, other than to lessen the status and human dignity of gays and lesbians in California," judge Stephen Reinhardt wrote in Tuesday's ruling.

"Although the constitution permits communities to enact most laws they believe to be desirable, it requiresthat there be at least a legitimate reason for the passage of a law that treats different classes of people differently," the ruling states.
Up the courts it goes

In other gay news
A majority of New Jersey voters agree with Gov. Chris Christie’s call to put gay marriage on the ballot, according to a poll released this morning.

The Kean University/NJ Speaks poll of 1,000 likely voters found 57 percent support a public referendum on whether to allow same-sex couples to get married, while 32 percent oppose it.

When asked simply if they favor or oppose gay marriage, 48 percent favor it and 37 percent oppose it.

“A lot of opponents of gay marriage also favor putting it on the ballot because they think their side is going to win,” said Terry Golway, director of the Kean University Center for History, Politics and Policy. “But when you come to the straight yes or no on gay marriage, a plurality does favor it.”

Gay rights activists argue marriage is a civil right and should never be put for a vote by the general public. They instead want the Legislature to pass it or the courts to grant it. Christie, who personally opposes gay marriage and says he will veto it, has called for it to be put on the ballot – echoing what many opponents of gay marriage have been arguing for years.

Democratic members of the Assembly are meeting this afternoon to discuss gay marriage, which has already cleared the Assembly and Senate judiciary committees. Senate President Stephen Sweeney says he has at least the 21 votes needed to pass it in the upper house and has scheduled it for a vote a week from today. Supporters are still trying to line up the 41 votes needed to pass the lower house.
48/37 Less than awesome results. They probably won't get enough for a veto overide. If Christie didn't have a 2016 shot if it might have gone through on a compromise.
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6498|so randum
do you have civil partnerships already or is this gay marriage thing trying to get it allowed in actual churches?
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