BF2S Forums Which statistics put someone into a GOOD, VERY GOOD, and EXPERT rating

Hm? win/loss ratio dosn´t say very much about one player, it says how much lamejoining a player does or how lucky the person is with his/her team.
A good player will have a good kdr (3++ as inf), a high spm, aim (High accuracy), typical very high kdr with nades and knife and often high kdr in all vehicle clases.

Last edited by [tlv]TDL (2006-03-06 11:23:35)

I think the best way to clasify a good or an expert player should be based on their ability to drastically improve their team's chances of victory. I can't recall how many games I've joined where I started on the losing team but was able to turn the game around in my team's favor. Yes, one person can make a difference, but having a good squad is better.

I think SPM and KD ratios are good indicators, but they can't illustrate the strategic effectiveness or intelligence of a player. The rate at which you acquire medals can also be a good indicator. If you are consistenly in the top 3 positions on the server when you play, chances are that you're a seasoned player and know what you're doing.

I've only played 120 hours and I have 91 gold, 48 silver, and 41 bronze medals. If I actually play on a server from the start of the round to the end chances are that I'll place in the top 3 positions 90% of the time. My SPM is 2.87 and my KD is about 2.6, but I also play as a medic, AT, armor, and helicopter pilot quite a bit. I still would consider myself a force to be reckoned with though in infantry combat. All of my infantry weapon KD's are above 1 including knives and pistols.

I also don't think that accuracy is a good measurement of a player's ability because it can often be affected by lag, which I'm frequently subject to. Also, good players will often take seemingly impossible shots realizing that the more bullets you release the greater the chances are that they'll hit the target. If I only took the shots that I was at least 50% confident I could make then I'm sure my accuracy would be around 35-40%. As it is, my accuracy is only about 26%.

If you're simply looking at indicators and not accounting for strategic abilities or battle intelligence this is how I would classify players:

Average: 0.5 KD min | 1.5 SPM min | 14% Accuracy | Achieves a top 3 medal about every 20 rounds
Skilled: 1 KD min | 2 SPM min | 16% Accuracy | Achieves a top 3 medal about  every 10 rounds
Veteran: 2.0 KD  min | 2.5 SPM min | 20% Accuracy | Achieves a top 3 medal about  every 5 rounds
Expert: 2.5 KD min | 3.0 SPM min | 24 % Accuracy | Achieves a top 3 medal about every 3 rounds
Master: 3.0 KD min | 3.5 SPM min | 28% Accuracy | Achieves a top 3 medal about every 2 rounds

Based on this scale I'd almost consider myself an expert if I could get my SPM from a 2.87 to a 3.0. I would probably just need to play medic and support a lot more then I currently do.

Edit: I had to scale the classification because I originally had the Average Player requiring a KD of 1, which doesn't account for TK's, falling off ledges, or other non-combat related deaths that would bring down an expected average of 1.

Last edited by LG-MindBullets (2006-03-06 11:35:51)

[tlv]TDL wrote:

Hm? win/loss ratio dosn´t say very much about one player, it says how much lamejoining a player does or how lucky the person is with his/her team.

I agree with that.

+ I think "total time played"  is a kind of important.

People that I play with and those I play against say that I am a pretty good player.  I play each kit pretty much equally and play them very effectively.  I love to play as a team, but I can hold entire squads at bay when I am in a higher position, ground defence is around for my use, and I have my good ol' C4 packs with me.

23rd-=CoA=-KoRnFreak wrote:

i hate guys who camp the whole game at one flag to protect it, cuz they are often useless for the team....they get killed or seconds later teammates arrive to take the flag back.....
me for example, i do everything, i protect flags, attack them, kill tanks .... i think if you do things to hold the teampoints, you are good---

Yes, you are an example to us all. Great "If you don't play like me, you suck!", attitude....keep it up.

Hi guys, long time reader, first time poster...

I think gauging someone's skill is entirely possible from their stats, but a lot of it depends on youre definition of skill, and it would be infinitely easier if EA did more elaborate stat tracking.

I would define skill as someone who is capable of turning the tide in battle.  Meaning, can you:

Defend flags against multiple enemies... i.e. can you more often than not kill the three assault people attacking your flag if you're the lone spec ops left and low on ammo?  stat: defended CP

Take out vehicles as infantry, either assualt with the n00b tube and favs, anti tanks and anything, and spec ops and anything.  I REALLY wish EA tracked how many vehicle kills you get as infantry... stat: AT/AA kills, explosives

Capture Flags, either by yourself, or in a group of people: I would define an expert player as one who could, more often than not, assault a flag defended by two or more individuals by his or herself, and effectively defend their respawns, stats: captures/hr, cap assists/hr defended cp/hr

Deal with snipers, noob tubers, c4 whores, tank whores, attack choppers, bombers: not so much an issue now... but I never got what all the hype was about C4 whores and n00b tubers, I so rarely died from them simply because I knew how they worked, and thus knew how to avoid them.  Avoiding the attack chopper is another important skill... see that tank coming down the road, let's run at it and shoot it with my M-16 to piss it off... sniper in the distance, then let's sit out in the open and pop a few shots...  just a general knowledge of tactics that OTHER players use to defeat you goes a long way.  stats: none that really reflect this

jet whores: normally, I don't think that simply jet whoring, i.e. bombing infantry can completely affect the tide of a battle, however, I think that it can effectively shut down good players and make their lives more difficult... THEREFORE, I would say that the mark of a good jet pilot is not how many kills they get with the jet, but how many airplanes/choppers/bombers they've shot down, and how many apcs/vodnicks/humvees/FAVs/boats/tanks they've destroyed.  Again, these are stats I WISH EA tracked.  This stat system has such an opportunity to be a data miners dream... stats: driver kill assists maybe, for bomber gunners... time in airplane, K:D with plane

chopper whores: a good chopper pilot will NOT have a large K:D with his chopper, why?  Because a good chopper pilot sets up and lets his gunner take ALL the kills, concentrating on not crashing, avoiding rockets, AA, .50 cal, and setting up for the next kill.  A good gunner with a bad pilot is worthless, and a good pilot with a bad gunner is just as bad.  I am of the opinion that the attack chopper can make or break a battle, especially if the commander is worth his salt and lets the chopper pilot know which flags are being assaulted.  stats: chopper k:d, driver kill assists, kill assists, chopper time relative to kills for pilots

medic whores: I've never understood why people hate the medic so much, calling the guy who revives his teammate 100 times a round a whore... plain and simple, if you got revived, you didn't lose a ticket, and you're team has a better chance of winning.  If I'm in a cross fire, and the medic revives me and I die, and I get revived, and I die, and I get revived, and I die, well... it's my own damn fault for not moving my ass when I get revived.  I would rather be revived and die a hundred times, than die once.  Now... this needs a caveat, a medic is an assaulting machine as well, and no well defended flag assault will work without medic support.  Medics NEED to be aware that they have powerful weapons, grenades, etc.  stats: revives, heals, and most importantly, medic K:D ratio (which incidentally, is something I'm proud of)

snipers: spot out infantry, tanks... EA doesn't track this, but I personally feel you should receive an assist point, and it should be tracked seperately of kill assists, for spotting a vehicle or infantry that get's destroyed whilst it was spotted by you.  Captures as a sniper I believe are good indicators, a sniper will take the long route and capture a back flag, giving his or her team a new spawn point from which to attack.  I don't think K:D is a good indication of a good sniper... stats: captured cp/hr, claymore kills, sniper rifle accuracy for bolt action rifles (again, not specificically tracked)

commanders: a good commander will solely make or break a team... I am a ardent believer in this, yes, the team has to follow directions, but more often than not, anyone who bothered to join a squad, will enjoy regular updates from the commander, I certainly do.  I don't think points as commander reflects this, but I do think the W:L AS commander does reflect command skill.

Put this all together, and you get the SPM... which I think along with infantry weapons K:D is the biggest reflection of skill.  If you have a high SPM, you're doing SOMETHING right... I would define good as 2.0 ish, excellent as 2.4 or more... and game breaking as anything higher than 2.7...  Some of the guys on the top ten have them in the 3.8 range... that's insane.  Again, whoring with armor will give you a high SPM, BUT... if you are whoring with armor, you're winning for your team.  Infantry K:D is good simply because it states that when you went up against equal opposition, you won X percentage of the time.   If you're K:D with assault rifles is 2:1, then excluding deaths by vehicles (which artificially lowers your K:D since you can't kill a tank with a carbine, or an assault rifle) you won 2 out of every 3 battles with infantry, or... 2/3 of the time.  In all liklihood, excluding deaths by vehicles, if your k:d is 2:1, you more likely won 3/4 battles for a pure 3:1 K:D versus infantry...

I don't think accuracy has any bearing on how good someone is... I think they TEND to be correlated... but I wouldn't consider it absolute.  If you get a gold star, kill 50 people a round, capture 10 flags a game, but have 5% accuracy... then god speed... if you've got > 25% accuracy, but can't cap, kill, or do team actions... well I don't want you OR your uber accuracy on my team.

Stats that I think will expose a poor player masquerading as a good one:

time as medic, but low heals/revives
time as support, but low support action
time as engineer, but low repairs, etc... (like me :( )
armor kills >> 50% of total kills
helicopter and airplane time but low kills, or, if low kills, then low driver ability points and kill assists also low (indicates bad pilot)
punishes (I wish it tracked how many times you punished... that would expose the n00bs right away)
lone wolf time: nuff said, join a squad, do something
good K:D, heals, revives, accuracy, but low SPM:  sure you revive teamates, kill guys, but you only do it for 10% of the game and sit around in the back and jack off the rest of the time... I honestly don't know how bf2 is exciting for some people with Low SPM... I would be bored silly...
karkand time: now, I need to put a caveat on this... there are people who only play city maps, and then there are people who ONLY play karkand.  Enjoying city maps is a playing style... enjoying karkand only, means you spend your time perfecting one skill, but would probably be useless at first in any other map... I fervently believe that a good player in karkand has the capability of owning another map, but they will need to practice.  Besides, I've never understood why whores pick karkand to whore in... sharqi is a MUCH better map on which to whore...

Anyways... my $0.02... flame away...

I don't think you can tell a skilled player from stats....just look at our top two players....a medic whore and a commander whore. They may have good looking stats....but they aren't skilled.

wtf.panda wrote:

I don't think you can tell a skilled player from stats....just look at our top two players....a medic whore and a commander whore. They may have good looking stats....but they aren't skilled.

Like I said in my post, there are stat indicators for classifying good players, but nothing that's absolute. I think the only way you would know for sure who the best players are would be to actually have them compete in some type of tournament.

I don't think I would stand much of a chance in a tournament with the world's best players, but overall as far as skill, tactics, and battle intelligence is concerned I think I'm one of the top 0.5 % of players. If I had to go in head to head battles in a helicopter, armor, or infantry against the top 20 players I feel confident that I could easily defeat the majority of them on a level playing field. I also agree with Tobacco about the need to record vehicle kill stats. I'd like to be able to see how many vehicles I've destroyed in the game. I think about 25% of my kills are armor, transports, or helicopters. Too bad they don't record this.

Tobacco wrote:

medic whores: I've never understood why people hate the medic so much, calling the guy who revives his teammate 100 times a round a whore... plain and simple, if you got revived, you didn't lose a ticket, and you're team has a better chance of winning.  If I'm in a cross fire, and the medic revives me and I die, and I get revived, and I die, and I get revived, and I die, well... it's my own damn fault for not moving my ass when I get revived.  I would rather be revived and die a hundred times, than die once.  Now... this needs a caveat, a medic is an assaulting machine as well, and no well defended flag assault will work without medic support.  Medics NEED to be aware that they have powerful weapons, grenades, etc.  stats: revives, heals, and most importantly, medic K:d ratio (which incidentally, is something I'm proud of)

Agree on that!

Tobacco wrote:

commanders: a good commander will solely make or break a team... I am a ardent believer in this, yes, the team has to follow directions, but more often than not, anyone who bothered to join a squad, will enjoy regular updates from the commander, I certainly do.  I don't think points as commander reflects this, but I do think the W:L AS commander does reflect command skill.

A good commander saves the ARTY to the last minute if it’s an even round and then determined the outcome with a good barrage!

Tobacco wrote:

Put this all together, and you get the SPM... which I think along with infantry weapons K:d is the biggest reflection of skill.  If you have a high SPM, you're doing SOMETHING right... I would define good as 2.0 ish, excellent as 2.4 or more... and game breaking as anything higher than 2.7...  Some of the guys on the top ten have them in the 3.8 range... that's insane.  Again, whoring with armor will give you a high SPM, BUT... if you are whoring with armor, you're winning for your team.  Infantry K:d is good simply because it states that when you went up against equal opposition, you won X percentage of the time. If you're K:d with assault rifles is 2:1, then excluding deaths by vehicles (which artificially lowers your K:d since you can't kill a tank with a carbine, or an assault rifle) you won 2 out of every 3 battles with infantry, or... 2/3 of the time.  In all liklihood, excluding deaths by vehicles, if your k:d is 2:1, you more likely won 3/4 battles for a pure 3:1 K:d versus infantry...

Infantry K:d ratio is important yes but most of the time overlooked by people who only look at the Total K:d ratio and judge from that!

Tobacco wrote:

I don't think accuracy has any bearing on how good someone is... I think they TEND to be correlated... but I wouldn't consider it absolute.  If you get a gold star, kill 50 people a round, capture 10 flags a game, but have 5% accuracy... then god speed... if you've got > 25% accuracy, but can't cap, kill, or do team actions... well I don't want you OR your uber accuracy on my team.

Yep also right someone like Reeltoo who use nades a lot gets an extremely high accuracy, 35% in his case (almost always an instant death)!

Tobacco wrote:

Stats that I think will expose a poor player masquerading as a good one:

time as medic, but low heals/revives
time as support, but low support action
time as engineer, but low repairs, etc... (like me)
armor kills >> 50% of total kills

Right again, well said man! Some people use the vehicles with any kit only to boost their overall score and that is not very helpful to your team-mates since you need to be an engineer in a APC or TANK to rep someone else!

You have to excuse me Armin but more than half of your kills is made up by armour kills!

Take a look at this guy, one of the best I think, 8% only off his time is done in armour and 12% as commander, impressive K:d ratio!

http://bf2s.com/player/45597827/

You can all check your skill at his skill calculator as Slidero said!

http://www.statpadder.com/

/Thanks/

Last edited by Sluggit (2006-03-12 13:44:47)

No one in the top ten has made it there without whoring something. Not that their stats are what u should go by.

Someone with equal time on ground, in tank, in heli, someone with positive k:d's with all weapons, cause weapons are useless in a tank/heli/plane meaning they can handle themselves on the ground not just whore something.

Someone with a teamscore that just above half of what combat score is.

Plus close enough to even across most maps, not like 1000 hrs on karkand, with the next closest being Wake with 250 hrs.

Dunno...just my idea of all around QUALITY player.