Grossly overpopulated?Mutantsteak wrote:
I think we should become India when it comes to drinking
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"Genetics of alcoholism. Two studies have found evidence of genes on specific chromosomes influencing susceptibility to alcoholism. The ongoing Collaborative Study on the Genetics of Alcoholism (COGA), which involves 987 individuals from high-risk families, reported suggestive evidence of genes on chromosomes 1 and 7 involved in alcoholism. An early report from the study also reported weaker evidence of such a gene on chromosome 2. Another study from NIAAA’s Laboratory of Neurogenetics, based on 152 members of a southwestern Native American tribe, reported suggestive evidence for a gene influencing susceptibility to alcoholism on chromosome 11. Both studies reported finding evidence of a gene that was protective against alcoholism in a region of chromosome 4."TheAussieReaper wrote:
I want you to show me what evidence, if any, there is that Native Americans are genetically disposed to become alcoholics.
Source: http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/nov2000/niaaa-21.htm
I can find more if you'd like....
I would.Turquoise wrote:
I can find more if you'd like....
"Two studies, with suggestive evidence?"
http://www.indiana.edu/~rcapub/v17n3/p18.html
"The quest for genes that influence alcohol abuse follows two paths. One goal is to locate genes that predispose a person to alcoholism. The other is to identify genes that help to prevent this from happening. Li and his coworkers have made important advances in this latter category. "We have identified two genes that protect against heavy drinking, and these are particularly prevalent among Asians," Li says. "We have shown that Native Americans, who have a high rate of alcoholism, do not have these protective genes. The one that is particularly effective is a mutation of the gene for the enzyme aldehyde dehydrogenase, which plays a major role in metabolizing alcohol. The mutation is found very frequently in Chinese and Japanese populations but is less common among other Asian groups, including Koreans, the Malayo-Polynesian group, and others native to the Pacific Rim. "We've also looked at Euro-Americans, Native Americans, and Eskimos, and they don't have that gene mutation," says Li. Thus, incidentally, the study of genetic mutations and alcoholism links native North-American populations to central Asian ancestors, not to those from China and Japan."
This source would seem to suggest that it's not a matter of having a gene that encourages alcoholism, but rather, there is a gene (or genes) that prevent alcoholism that Native Americans don't typically have.
"The quest for genes that influence alcohol abuse follows two paths. One goal is to locate genes that predispose a person to alcoholism. The other is to identify genes that help to prevent this from happening. Li and his coworkers have made important advances in this latter category. "We have identified two genes that protect against heavy drinking, and these are particularly prevalent among Asians," Li says. "We have shown that Native Americans, who have a high rate of alcoholism, do not have these protective genes. The one that is particularly effective is a mutation of the gene for the enzyme aldehyde dehydrogenase, which plays a major role in metabolizing alcohol. The mutation is found very frequently in Chinese and Japanese populations but is less common among other Asian groups, including Koreans, the Malayo-Polynesian group, and others native to the Pacific Rim. "We've also looked at Euro-Americans, Native Americans, and Eskimos, and they don't have that gene mutation," says Li. Thus, incidentally, the study of genetic mutations and alcoholism links native North-American populations to central Asian ancestors, not to those from China and Japan."
This source would seem to suggest that it's not a matter of having a gene that encourages alcoholism, but rather, there is a gene (or genes) that prevent alcoholism that Native Americans don't typically have.
This is a touchy subject for me so I'm not going to argue my points, I still love you though Aussie <3TheAussieReaper wrote:
Much harder to catch an 18 year old pretending to be 21, than it is for a 15 or 16 year old. If you had bothered to read the next paragraph of my post.Mutantsteak wrote:
You'll see 18 year olds binging until they pass out, much safer you're rightTheAussieReaper wrote:
That's pretty ridiculous imo. The 18 drinking age is much better, because you won't see the 21 year olds binge drinking for the first time until they pass out.
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Giving teenage girls Mike's Hard Lemonade doesn't work like it does with teenage boys.Veridic wrote:
I think when my daughter turns 18 or so, I am going to give her the most god-awful, foul-tasting, rotten beer I can get ahold of.
That way, when shes at some college party and some guy is trying to get her drunk, she will just remember that awful taste.
At least it will make her think twice before drinking.
Changing the drinking age from 21 to 18 just means highschoolers will be drinking legally. Not much else. If anything I've heard about college is true by age 21 most college students should already have learned not to party as much as they did freshman year. By age 21 they've learned moderation between school and parties.
lol That source is looking at the genetics of lab rats. And says that human studies need to be investigated...Turquoise wrote:
http://www.indiana.edu/~rcapub/v17n3/p18.html
This source would seem to suggest that it's not a matter of having a gene that encourages alcoholism, but rather, there is a gene (or genes) that prevent alcoholism that Native Americans don't typically have.
@ Mutant, sorry if I hit close to home or something. <3 you too.
Cigarettes should be 16, Booyah!
Li is doing a study on rats, but the earlier part of the article is talking about humans.TheAussieReaper wrote:
lol That source is looking at the genetics of lab rats. And says that human studies need to be investigated...Turquoise wrote:
http://www.indiana.edu/~rcapub/v17n3/p18.html
This source would seem to suggest that it's not a matter of having a gene that encourages alcoholism, but rather, there is a gene (or genes) that prevent alcoholism that Native Americans don't typically have.
@ Mutant, sorry if I hit close to home or something. <3 you too.
Article: Genetic association studies of alcoholism — problems with the candidate gene approach
Author: Paul R. Buckland
Department of Psychological Medicine, University of Wales College of Medicine, Heath Park, Cardiff CF14 4XN, UK
From the Alcohol and Alcoholism Journal. Vol. 36, No. 2, pp. 99-103, 2001
© 2001 Medical Council on Alcoholism
Author: Paul R. Buckland
Department of Psychological Medicine, University of Wales College of Medicine, Heath Park, Cardiff CF14 4XN, UK
From the Alcohol and Alcoholism Journal. Vol. 36, No. 2, pp. 99-103, 2001
© 2001 Medical Council on Alcoholism
And the last paragraph of the journal:— In recent years, progress has been made in the identification of causative factors in most single gene disorders and those with genes of major effect. In comparison, no genes contributing to a complex disorder have been unambiguously identified. A number of reasons for this have been previously presented in theoretical papers. Alcoholism is such a complex illness and genetic studies into its underlying genetic causes have suffered from lack of power due to small subject numbers, poor selection of control subjects, and over-emphasis on markers with low prior probability of involvement.
In the last 10 years, there has been a growing list of genetic linkage and association studies of alcoholism and the diseases resulting from alcoholism. Unfortunately, not only have these studies been inconsistent and inconclusive, but also many studies described in submitted manuscripts to medical and scientific journals are poorly designed.
Finding genes predisposing to complex phenotypes is far from simple, and is likely to require large multi-disciplinary research groups accumulating hundreds, and probably thousands of DNA samples from rigorously phenotyped subjects. In addition, with the association design, in order to have a reasonable a priori chance of analysing genuine susceptibility genes, it will usually be necessary to have access to fairly high (and expensive) laboratory technologies and expert statistical guidance. In alcoholism, it is reasonable to expect that the environmental effects will be more problematic than in other complex phenotypes such as schizophrenia or bipolar disorder (Hill, 1998Go). For example, the development of alcoholism must be preceded by exposure to alcohol; this is rare in some social groups, whilst common in others, and is affected by free will and prior knowledge of the effects of alcohol. In comparison, the only known environmental effectors of schizophrenia are place and season of birth (Mortensen et al., 1999Go) neither of which can be controlled by the subject. It is likely, therefore, to be a more difficult task finding genes predisposing to alcoholism than to psychosis. In research on alcoholism, one would expect to see larger data samples, better defined patient phenotypes and control groups, and more sophisticated analysis than is reported in studies of psychosis. Unfortunately, the opposite is frequently the case.
Feel free to read what a real source of information is. The article can be found from the above mentioned source, published by the Medical Council on Alcoholism.Since the studies described above were published (Noble, 1998Go) there have been at least 10 further association studies between the DRD2 gene and alcoholism with the majority showing no association.
Last edited by TheAussieReaper (2008-08-18 22:00:22)
I'm in favor of NO drinking age. But I like freedom, unlike most people.
Ok have it at 18 years of age and jack up the price of alcohol at the same time by several times. I am not going to pay extra car insurance because of the dumbass drunks that think they can drive.
You forgot the people that some are not mentally 21years old.NateWiese wrote:
Giving teenage girls Mike's Hard Lemonade doesn't work like it does with teenage boys.Veridic wrote:
I think when my daughter turns 18 or so, I am going to give her the most god-awful, foul-tasting, rotten beer I can get ahold of.
That way, when shes at some college party and some guy is trying to get her drunk, she will just remember that awful taste.
At least it will make her think twice before drinking.
Changing the drinking age from 21 to 18 just means highschoolers will be drinking legally. Not much else. If anything I've heard about college is true by age 21 most college students should already have learned not to party as much as they did freshman year. By age 21 they've learned moderation between school and parties.
Last edited by The#1Spot (2008-08-18 23:09:15)
I agree.Spearhead wrote:
Its pretty ridiculous how you can die for your country but not order a beer.
And live on your own, and legally buy a house, and vote, etc...Spearhead wrote:
Its pretty ridiculous how you can die for your country but not order a beer.
Yet you can't buy beer.
I support moving the drinking age back simply for more freedom and because it's the right thing to do, meaning this will probably not make it through our courts.
I say leave it the way it is. Kids will get it regardless, all i know is before i turned 21 i started drinking a bit at 18 maybe once a year, then by 19 i was out every weekend trying to bum booze..when i hit 21 it was on..full blown drinker lol.
mind you this was out of college, i didn't start college till last year, 26 years old..going to a junior college right now.
at least it makes it harder to get at the current law, but i dunno who knows maybe 18 for drink is best. They should test it in a state to see the results first.
and about indians, hell yeah they drink. I lived near a res for a few years, nothing but ass drunk indiaans passed out everywhere. In our family the blood line goes back to some Cherokee, i have irish/german and who know's what else. But those 3 are confirmed.
mind you this was out of college, i didn't start college till last year, 26 years old..going to a junior college right now.
at least it makes it harder to get at the current law, but i dunno who knows maybe 18 for drink is best. They should test it in a state to see the results first.
and about indians, hell yeah they drink. I lived near a res for a few years, nothing but ass drunk indiaans passed out everywhere. In our family the blood line goes back to some Cherokee, i have irish/german and who know's what else. But those 3 are confirmed.
.....drop out of school, get married, have kids, get a full time job, drive, fly, smoke and recieve the full burden of punishment for any crimes you commit.Home wrote:
And live on your own, and legally buy a house, and vote, etc...Spearhead wrote:
Its pretty ridiculous how you can die for your country but not order a beer.
letting them drink is just crazy though as they are clealy not responsable at that age for any choices that they make......
Yes, the Irish.Certain ethnicities are more genetically prone to alcoholism.
Why not get her used to beer now? Then when she's 18 it won't be big deal.I think when my daughter turns 18 or so, I am going to give her the most god-awful, foul-tasting, rotten beer I can get ahold of.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
The younger people start drinking the more responsible they'll be with it.
Unless of course its illegal.. parenting plays a big role too. The same parents who are so worried about drunk teenagers should look at themselves and their parenting skills, too.
Unless of course its illegal.. parenting plays a big role too. The same parents who are so worried about drunk teenagers should look at themselves and their parenting skills, too.
When its forbidden, ppl want it more. I would have cracked up if I couldn't go to bars until I was 21. I have been in them since 15-16, never been a hardcore drinker or had any problems with drink. If I had been stopped from going to bars I'm sure I would have hit it hard, like a new play ground.
When your 18 your considered an adult in every other way. You can drive a car, buy a house, go to the chair, but you can't have a pint. Weired.
When your 18 your considered an adult in every other way. You can drive a car, buy a house, go to the chair, but you can't have a pint. Weired.
Like spearhead said, you can volunteer at 18 and go die at war, but you can't buy a six a pack of beer? I'm not a proponent of lets lower the drinking age because young people drink it anyways, I just think it is offensive that we can respect young people to die for us, but not to drink responsibly. Yes, some people actually do drink responsibly. I don't happen to drink, and I want to keep it that way, but I believe in people being responsible for their own life style.
When something is illegal to do until a certain age - it usually just makes kids want to do it more. Atleast from what I've observed.
They should do two things at the same time
1. lower the drinking age to 16 and
2. raise the driving age to 18
because you should learn to drink before you learn to drive
and you should probably learn to drink while you are living in your parents home
and hopefully the party party party will be all out of your system before you get to college.
1. lower the drinking age to 16 and
2. raise the driving age to 18
because you should learn to drink before you learn to drive
and you should probably learn to drink while you are living in your parents home
and hopefully the party party party will be all out of your system before you get to college.
I 2nd that motion.Diesel_dyk wrote:
They should do two things at the same time
1. lower the drinking age to 16 and
2. raise the driving age to 18
because you should learn to drink before you learn to drive
and you should probably learn to drink while you are living in your parents home
and hopefully the party party party will be all out of your system before you get to college.
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