If by "my faith" you mean every sect and denomination that claims to be Christian, then yes, I agree with you. Unfortunately, in the past 2000 years or so, various faiths have added to their doctrine because of what certain leaders taught. Even more unfortunately, many of those leaders were deeply flawed and encouraged/demanded inherently flawed ideology. Others just went out on various tangents that have little, if any grounding in the teachings of Jesus...so yeah, Christianity (as a group of denominations) is pretty flawed. That is why I attempt to back up any of my religious beliefs with logic and/or teachings from the Bible.xBlackPantherx wrote:
You're 'faith' is incredibly flawed, not taught truely, and is very hypocritical.
Last edited by RAIMIUS (2008-08-18 09:13:02)
All the ancient religious books contain nuggets of useful philosophy and praiseworthy universal principles...it's just all the bullshit fairy tale stuff that makes me switch off.Beduin wrote:
It is clearly you didnt read the thora,bible and the Quran?
The answers are there m8!
Its hard to predict what would happen if religion disappeared but its very possible there would be less morality than there is now.Braddock wrote:
What makes me laugh is the way a lot of religious people think that if religion were to disappear that morality would disappear also, lol.
Yup. Religion is based upon morality, not the other way round.Braddock wrote:
What makes me laugh is the way a lot of religious people think that if religion were to disappear that morality would disappear also, lol.
I disagree, religion is just 'the social contract' wrapped up in a fairytale to keep the sheep in line. If you take away the fairytale the need for the social contract would still remain and hence people in general would still adhere to the same moral and ethical codes...or at least to the same degree as when religion was in place..Sup wrote:
Its hard to predict what would happen if religion disappeared but its very possible there would be less morality than there is now.Braddock wrote:
What makes me laugh is the way a lot of religious people think that if religion were to disappear that morality would disappear also, lol.
Last edited by Braddock (2008-08-18 12:28:27)
You sir are an anarchist and you don't even know itDavid.P wrote:
Doesn't matter where it started as long as it spread to all the great city states and empires, and caused a massive revolt against all authority and law.
It is the correlation of atheism and this "utopian" idea that does not necessarily exist.xBlackPantherx wrote:
You are missing it. What part of the term "Atheistic Utopian" do you not understand?? The people that are defined by this term are a step beyond the ordinary atheist. They seek a perfect utopia where everyone is perfect and will eliminate millions upon millions who are 'inadequate' or 'barbaric', as defined by their views, through the means of 'science and logic'; science being mainly WMD's. I'll be straight with you. I plain don't get your last statement. I was quoting it, roughly anyways, just from what I remember accurately enough; if that's what you're asking??Drakef wrote:
I must be missing it. What does a "logically and scientifically perfect utopia" have to do with atheism? How does atheism "justify mass killing millions to billions via 'science and logic'"? Are you really quoting from I Don't Believe in Atheists? You could do better.
If religion disappeared the world would be a better place and society would flourish.....Sup wrote:
Its hard to predict what would happen if religion disappeared but its very possible there would be less morality than there is now.Braddock wrote:
What makes me laugh is the way a lot of religious people think that if religion were to disappear that morality would disappear also, lol.
Spoken like a true Brainwashed Texan Christian.BigOrangeArmy wrote:
If religion disappeared the world would be a better place and society would flourish.....Sup wrote:
Its hard to predict what would happen if religion disappeared but its very possible there would be less morality than there is now.Braddock wrote:
What makes me laugh is the way a lot of religious people think that if religion were to disappear that morality would disappear also, lol.
Oh ya! I remember a couple of those societies! Lets see...i think one of them was called the Third Reich, and that guy Hitler wanted to destroy the Jews and all religions (Christianity in particular) amirite? He was a good leader /sarcasm.
Oh wait, there was that Stalin guy too. You know, the one who killed millions of people. Everyone loved him, didnt he?
And then there's China, who, in their "perfect atheistic world" has the worst human rights record of any country today
Yeah...atheism produces perfect societies...the only thing atheism has done for these countries is promote hate of the weak and disabled, and promoted intolerance of religious groups (who started many civil services, like the Salvation Army and the Red Cross), ggthx...
Spoken like a true, Brainwashed, closeminded Liberaljord wrote:
Spoken like a true Brainwashed Texan Christian.BigOrangeArmy wrote:
If religion disappeared the world would be a better place and society would flourish.....Sup wrote:
Its hard to predict what would happen if religion disappeared but its very possible there would be less morality than there is now.
Oh ya! I remember a couple of those societies! Lets see...i think one of them was called the Third Reich, and that guy Hitler wanted to destroy the Jews and all religions (Christianity in particular) amirite? He was a good leader /sarcasm.
Oh wait, there was that Stalin guy too. You know, the one who killed millions of people. Everyone loved him, didnt he?
And then there's China, who, in their "perfect atheistic world" has the worst human rights record of any country today
Yeah...atheism produces perfect societies...the only thing atheism has done for these countries is promote hate of the weak and disabled, and promoted intolerance of religious groups (who started many civil services, like the Salvation Army and the Red Cross), ggthx...
Couldn't be further from the truth. If you want to throw labels at me you should have gone with Religion hater. Which is true, I dislike anything to do with religion. It disgusts me how my religious school worked with the scare tactics and it disgusts me weak and ignorant people won't smarten up.BigOrangeArmy wrote:
Spoken like a true, Brainwashed, closeminded Liberaljord wrote:
Spoken like a true Brainwashed Texan Christian.BigOrangeArmy wrote:
If religion disappeared the world would be a better place and society would flourish....
Oh ya! I remember a couple of those societies! Lets see...i think one of them was called the Third Reich, and that guy Hitler wanted to destroy the Jews and all religions (Christianity in particular) amirite? He was a good leader /sarcasm.
Oh wait, there was that Stalin guy too. You know, the one who killed millions of people. Everyone loved him, didnt he?
And then there's China, who, in their "perfect atheistic world" has the worst human rights record of any country today
Yeah...atheism produces perfect societies...the only thing atheism has done for these countries is promote hate of the weak and disabled, and promoted intolerance of religious groups (who started many civil services, like the Salvation Army and the Red Cross), ggthx...
Last edited by jord (2008-08-18 14:20:59)
Yes, sir, it does. The primal goal of any Atheistic Utopian (not atheists in general) and any religious figure/any follower is to have a perfect world. Not necessarily obtained via the same methods, but its the same goal nonetheless. Both involve mass murder and/or eternal damnation. I don't get why you are denying the existence of a group of Atheist extremists that believe in eradicating millions based upon their views to achieve exactly what religion wants, except by means of science and reason instead of the Rapture. They are two of the same. Only Atheistic Extremists/Utopians and religion. Not Atheists in general. Don't get them confused.Drakef wrote:
It is the correlation of atheism and this "utopian" idea that does not necessarily exist.xBlackPantherx wrote:
You are missing it. What part of the term "Atheistic Utopian" do you not understand?? The people that are defined by this term are a step beyond the ordinary atheist. They seek a perfect utopia where everyone is perfect and will eliminate millions upon millions who are 'inadequate' or 'barbaric', as defined by their views, through the means of 'science and logic'; science being mainly WMD's. I'll be straight with you. I plain don't get your last statement. I was quoting it, roughly anyways, just from what I remember accurately enough; if that's what you're asking??Drakef wrote:
I must be missing it. What does a "logically and scientifically perfect utopia" have to do with atheism? How does atheism "justify mass killing millions to billions via 'science and logic'"? Are you really quoting from I Don't Believe in Atheists? You could do better.
He has a point though. A society ridded of religion is not mutally exclusive to being a ''better'' one.BigOrangeArmy wrote:
Spoken like a true, Brainwashed, closeminded Liberaljord wrote:
Spoken like a true Brainwashed Texan Christian.BigOrangeArmy wrote:
If religion disappeared the world would be a better place and society would flourish....
Oh ya! I remember a couple of those societies! Lets see...i think one of them was called the Third Reich, and that guy Hitler wanted to destroy the Jews and all religions (Christianity in particular) amirite? He was a good leader /sarcasm.
Oh wait, there was that Stalin guy too. You know, the one who killed millions of people. Everyone loved him, didnt he?
And then there's China, who, in their "perfect atheistic world" has the worst human rights record of any country today
Yeah...atheism produces perfect societies...the only thing atheism has done for these countries is promote hate of the weak and disabled, and promoted intolerance of religious groups (who started many civil services, like the Salvation Army and the Red Cross), ggthx...
What the hell are you even talking about? There is absolutely no correlation between China's religious views and their human rights. That's like saying that since an Atheist has AIDS that every Atheist must be infected! Don't ever group things that have nothing to do with each other like that. That's called manipulation, corruption and propaganda. What you just did is what Christianity has been doing for hundreds and hundreds of years and you entirely just supported my points.BigOrangeArmy wrote:
And then there's China, who, in their "perfect atheistic world" has the worst human rights record of any country today
Yeah...atheism produces perfect societies...the only thing atheism has done for these countries is promote hate of the weak and disabled, and promoted intolerance of religious groups (who started many civil services, like the Salvation Army and the Red Cross), ggthx...
You just keep getting more ignorant and ignorant with every single letter. For one, AGAIN, you are grouping. Because a couple atheists despise religion you think every one hates religion and damns it. I have entire tolerance for religion and respect anyone's views. Something you should fucking have instead of being so hypocritical and ignorant. Religion has killed hundreds of millions in the same of Jesus, Muhammad, etc simply because someone didn't accept their views or said no to them. Gtfo until you learn what the hell you're talking about, stop being so hypocritical, etc unless you wanna stay in here making idiotic remarks further supporting all of my points.and promoted intolerance of religious groups
Pretty much.jord wrote:
Spoken like a true Brainwashed Texan Christian.
Again with your god damn hypocrisy and ignorance. It's fucking killing me.BigOrangeArmy wrote:
Spoken like a true, Brainwashed, closeminded Liberal
Last edited by xBlackPantherx (2008-08-18 14:36:12)
I had to study Nazi Germany and I'll tell you the Nazi's were far from a society free of Religion. Not only did the make alliances with the bigger population of the church and allow them to pray and worship. ("You keep outta politics and we'll keep outta the church"). But some specialists argue the Nazi regime as a whole was a religion.Bell wrote:
He has a point though. A society ridded of religion is not mutally exclusive to being a ''better'' one.BigOrangeArmy wrote:
Spoken like a true, Brainwashed, closeminded Liberaljord wrote:
Spoken like a true Brainwashed Texan Christian.
Though, that is not to say we should give them a free ride based on the status-quo.
Utter nonsense. You are trying to form the argument that atheism was some kind of common defining factor in these examples when in fact they were not. Atheism is not a belief system, it is the absence of a belief system (or belief in a religion at least, it could be said that atheism is a belief in society over religion) and as such it played no great role in the ideas put forward by the tyrants you mentioned. Communist countries didn't allow any belief system that took away from the absolute authority of the state, religion just happened to fall under that umbrella - certain philosophical teachings of a non religious nature would have also fallen under it too.BigOrangeArmy wrote:
If religion disappeared the world would be a better place and society would flourish.....Sup wrote:
Its hard to predict what would happen if religion disappeared but its very possible there would be less morality than there is now.Braddock wrote:
What makes me laugh is the way a lot of religious people think that if religion were to disappear that morality would disappear also, lol.
Oh ya! I remember a couple of those societies! Lets see...i think one of them was called the Third Reich, and that guy Hitler wanted to destroy the Jews and all religions (Christianity in particular) amirite? He was a good leader /sarcasm.
Oh wait, there was that Stalin guy too. You know, the one who killed millions of people. Everyone loved him, didnt he?
And then there's China, who, in their "perfect atheistic world" has the worst human rights record of any country today
Yeah...atheism produces perfect societies...the only thing atheism has done for these countries is promote hate of the weak and disabled, and promoted intolerance of religious groups (who started many civil services, like the Salvation Army and the Red Cross), ggthx...
I was reffering more about the premis of what he was saying (rather than his specific examples which are at best dubious).jord wrote:
I had to study Nazi Germany and I'll tell you the Nazi's were far from a society free of Religion.
Hitchens parrots this fairly frequently. I disagree with him. There are plenty people who consider themself christians but dont go to church.jord wrote:
Religion is just holding people back. Thankfully less and less people as the Church attendees number falls
I don't understand. How do you think every religious person automatically became a mindless machine of all faith and no reason when they join a religion (in this case, Christianity)?jord wrote:
Couldn't be further from the truth. If you want to throw labels at me you should have gone with Religion hater. Which is true, I dislike anything to do with religion. It disgusts me how my religious school worked with the scare tactics and it disgusts me weak and ignorant people won't smarten up.
I'm not Brainwashed. I used to be a Christian as a kid. 10 years ago you coulda called me that one. Then I started thinking for myself and grew up.
Because religion fundamentally requires blind submission.BOA wrote:
I don't understand. How do you think every religious person automatically became a mindless machine of all faith and no reason when they join a religion (in this case, Christianity)?
Last edited by Uzique (2008-08-18 14:46:59)
BigOrangeArmy wrote:
I don't understand. How do you think every religious person automatically became a mindless machine of all faith and no reason when they join a religion (in this case, Christianity)?jord wrote:
Couldn't be further from the truth. If you want to throw labels at me you should have gone with Religion hater. Which is true, I dislike anything to do with religion. It disgusts me how my religious school worked with the scare tactics and it disgusts me weak and ignorant people won't smarten up.
I'm not Brainwashed. I used to be a Christian as a kid. 10 years ago you coulda called me that one. Then I started thinking for myself and grew up.
Couldnt be further from the truth. Rather than sacrificing intellect and reason, my reason supplements and undergirds the reason Im a Christian. In fact, i could say that Postmodernism and Evolution has been drilled into the heads of school kids and they have been Brainwashed as a result. Creationism gets no say in schools, and whenever it or religion is brought up, the teachers automatically say, "Oh, thats Faith, not Science, so it's stupid to think about that, young man."
It seems logical to me that Christianity could stand up to tests of logicalness and reason (in the veracity of the Bible, the resurrection, yada yada yada....theres plenty of books out there. In fact, right now im reading a book called "Faith and Reason" right now. Very informative and logical.
But back to the topic...you didnt answer my quote about Hitler, Stalin, and China. Lack of religion cant make a country "superior." Sure, Afganistan and Iran have terrible Human Rights Records too, but then again, they're Muslim. Islam is brute in its dealings with Non-Muslims, is demeaning of women, and have terrible religious intolerance. I would count such a country that upholds such standards as bad (in a way) as Nazi Germany and Communist Russia.
And you started the labels, btw .
