BF2S Forums Within 20 Years, Muslims Will Be Majority in Europe

lowing wrote:

Maybe someone can explain to me why if a westerner goes to a ME country he would be considered a fish out of water because his culture does not blend well in a ME culture, yet it is totally outragous and racist and insulting to say the reverse.

lowing wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

lowing wrote:

really? show me please

lowing wrote:

...I do not fear Islam, I just hate it.

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 5#p2217185

clearly, that is not judging people individually, is it ?

come on, lowing, there are only two options here: either you judge people individually, regardless of their race, or religion; or you stereotype, and generalize, and make judgements based on other people's race and/or religion. The latter I would call racism. And yes, I know, Islam "technically" isn't a race, but for lack of a better term, I shall use "racist" in this context. Feel free to provide me with a better term.

As far as the OP is concerned, it's always funny to see someone living in Egypt make comments on how the muslim population is supposed to develop in Europe. Especially if the guy is a muslim scholar, and not a sociologist, or anthropologist...

As others have already pointed out, muslim population in Europe is - statistically speaking - insignificant. Second- and third-generation muslims are largely westernized, and often care more about their playstations, cars, and cable TV, than about religion. They are also largely un-political.
In those regards, they are really not that much different from their fellow citizens of other ethnic or religious backgrounds, btw.

In germany, for example, there isn't even a muslim political party. So even if a majority of muslims were politically active, they would only be able to vote for the democratic, non-muslim parties that we have anyway, which kind of defies the supposed "threat" they pose to our democratic society.

Sorry, I disagree, I am prejudiced against a religion and its teachings, I judge individuals based on appearance, actions and effort. There is a distinct difference.

B.Schuss wrote:

lowing wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

lowing wrote:

really? show me please

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?pi … 5#p2217185

clearly, that is not judging people individually, is it ?

come on, lowing, there are only two options here: either you judge people individually, regardless of their race, or religion; or you stereotype, and generalize, and make judgements based on other people's race and/or religion. The latter I would call racism. And yes, I know, Islam "technically" isn't a race, but for lack of a better term, I shall use "racist" in this context. Feel free to provide me with a better term.

As far as the OP is concerned, it's always funny to see someone living in Egypt make comments on how the muslim population is supposed to develop in Europe. Especially if the guy is a muslim scholar, and not a sociologist, or anthropologist...

As others have already pointed out, muslim population in Europe is - statistically speaking - insignificant. Second- and third-generation muslims are largely westernized, and often care more about their playstations, cars, and cable TV, than about religion. They are also largely un-political.
In those regards, they are really not that much different from their fellow citizens of other ethnic or religious backgrounds, btw.

In germany, for example, there isn't even a muslim political party. So even if a majority of muslims were politically active, they would only be able to vote for the democratic, non-muslim parties that we have anyway, which kind of defies the supposed "threat" they pose to our democratic society.

Sorry, I disagree, I am prejudiced against a religion and its teachings, I judge individuals based on appearance, actions and effort. There is a distinct difference.

ah, so it's only the religion, not the people following it ? Come on. There would be no Islam without anyone following its teachings, just as there would be no christianity without christians, and judaism without jews.

How can you make a generalizing, broad statement like "I am prejudiced against a religion [ islam ] and its teachings", and still expect us to believe that this prejudice of yours does not have any effect on your view of individual muslims ?

lowing wrote:

m3thod wrote:

lowing wrote:

Nope, their culture does not hold the same values in society as ours, so t oaccept their culture would be to accept women as inferior, and homosexuality as a crime etc......

Stop hammer time.  I don't percive women as worthless or homosexuality a crime, so that doesn't hold water.  It's like saying all Christians are war mongers based on a few (demented) people you've proberbly heard of...

Where in the teachings of Islam ( and it might)  does it hold women as equals or homosexuality as acceptable? If it does not teach this, then you are not following Islam are you?

m3thod wrote:

lowing wrote:

m3thod wrote:

Stop hammer time.  I don't perceive women as worthless or homosexuality a crime, so that doesn't hold water.  It's like saying all Christians are war mongers based on a few (demented) people you've proberbly heard of...

Where in the teachings of Islam ( and it might)  does it hold women as equals or homosexuality as acceptable? If it does not teach this, then you are not following Islam are you?

I follow Islam how i see fit and you don't have the right to tell me what i can and can't do based on what you've read on how islam should be followed.  You're a infidel for god sake.

Are you telling me you explicitly follow every law and rule hard and fast? Never jaywalked? Sped? Farted in an enclosed public space? Because it seems its what you want muslims to do.

Last edited by lowing (2008-07-31 06:51:42)

lowing wrote:

m3thod wrote:

lowing wrote:

Where in the teachings of Islam ( and it might)  does it hold women as equals or homosexuality as acceptable? If it does not teach this, then you are not following Islam are you?

I follow Islam how i see fit and you don't have the right to tell me what i can and can't do based on what you've read on how islam should be followed.  You're a infidel for god sake.

Are you telling me you explicitly follow every law and rule hard and fast? Never jaywalked? Sped? Farted in an enclosed public space? Because it seems its what you want muslims to do.

If you follow Islam "how you see fit", then you are not following Islam. You are following a religion that you have made up to fit your lifestyle, your agenda, your beliefs, for nothing more than your convenience. Call it something else, because Islam is taken.

Funny you should use those examples. Yeah I have jaywalked, sped, and by doing so isn't FOLLOWING the rules now is it? Thanks for proving my point.

JahManRed wrote:

lowing wrote:

If you follow Islam "how you see fit", then you are not following Islam. You are following a religion that you have made up to fit your lifestyle, your agenda, your beliefs, for nothing more than your convenience. Call it something else, because Islam is taken.

Funny you should use those examples. Yeah I have jaywalked, sped, and by doing so isn't FOLLOWING the rules now is it? Thanks for proving my point.

I know plenty of Christians who don't go to mass regularly, don't have fish on a Friday, have sex before marriage, have kids before marriage, smoke, drink, etc and they still consider themselves Christians.

Method doesn't follow Islam to the word. If he lived in Saudi then he would. Why? Because he and/or his parents have adapted to western culture to the British way of life. He is a British Muslim. Your main gripe with Muslims is that they are going to try and force a change in your country to suit themselves. Surely methods last post proves otherwise. Yet you mock him for it.

Moderate Muslims, like moderate Christians are in the majority and they have taken on our believes and our culture and added it to their own. All constant Muslim bashing does is make more hardliners and less moderates.

Lotta_Drool wrote:

Noooooo, now all the hot skinny chicks of the world will be covered in Burkas!

Honestly I think another socialist party, like the Nazis, will come to power in Europe.  Europe is very socialist, just hope it isn't a ratical Islamo Socialist Party that captures the hearts over there.

Braddock wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

Lotta_Drool wrote:

Noooooo, now all the hot skinny chicks of the world will be covered in Burkas!

Honestly I think another socialist party, like the Nazis, will come to power in Europe.  Europe is very socialist, just hope it isn't a ratical Islamo Socialist Party that captures the hearts over there.

considering there is not one country in the EU I can think of right now that has a sufficiently large and politically active muslim population to get over the 5% threshold for political party representation, I doubt that.

It's typical scaremongering projected figures as usual. Affluence will knock that high birth rate down over coming generations and we will all be able to relax again.

JahManRed wrote:

lowing wrote:

If you follow Islam "how you see fit", then you are not following Islam. You are following a religion that you have made up to fit your lifestyle, your agenda, your beliefs, for nothing more than your convenience. Call it something else, because Islam is taken.

Funny you should use those examples. Yeah I have jaywalked, sped, and by doing so isn't FOLLOWING the rules now is it? Thanks for proving my point.

I know plenty of Christians who don't go to mass regularly, don't have fish on a Friday, have sex before marriage, have kids before marriage, smoke, drink, etc and they still consider themselves Christians.

Method doesn't follow Islam to the word. If he lived in Saudi then he would. Why? Because he and/or his parents have adapted to western culture to the British way of life. He is a British Muslim. Your main gripe with Muslims is that they are going to try and force a change in your country to suit themselves. Surely methods last post proves otherwise. Yet you mock him for it.

Moderate Muslims, like moderate Christians are in the majority and they have taken on our believes and our culture and added it to their own. All constant Muslim bashing does is make more hardliners and less moderates.