IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6495|Northern California
I've been reading some of the latest mudslinging and wanted to pick your brains.  This time it's from my candidate of choice, Obama, indirectly and from a man I respect and who I wish could be president..Wes Clark.  As we all know, Wes Clark was the Nato supreme commander during some or all of the Bosnia campaign under Clinton.  Further, without divulging his resume, he's an absolute master of all things military both scholastically and in practice.  He's one of your more educated generals.  Sadly his bid was out-dollared in 2004 on the Dem ticket to be president.

Anyway, he is a military advisor for Obama and recently laid the smack down on McCain and let everyone know he really doesn't have qualifications to be Commander-in-Chief because he was a fighter pilot, shot-down, imprisoned, and lead a non-wartime squadron.  While very honorable and heroic his actions, they're just that...  honorable and heroic.  His non-commanding positions in military and in the Senate likewise illustrate a lack of experience in commanding the troops.  So why the attack on McCain then?  Well, McCain is going around being "Captain America" and calling himself experienced in all things military touting his experience in the Vietnam war (even though 5 years of it was in the clink).  He's accusing Obama of being inexperienced..so, Clark called his bluff and showed how inexperienced he is.  It was quite amusing.  And of course the old dude got pissed (probably smashed his computer screen when he read it) and is demanding Obama censure Clark.

My purpose in bringing this story, and with it my bias, to you to give your opinions on what truly "qualifies" a candidate to be "experienced" enough to be a Commander-in-Chief..aka "the one person responsible for deploying our fighting men and women, for conducting warfare with said lives, and finding an end in the means."  How does one truly qualify?  Sure, a former Joint Chiefs Chairman would be nice..a Colin Powell, a Wes Clark, a Schwartzkopf or Patreaus might be qualified having already conducted themselves thus.  But from my reckoning, McCain is a politician who served in Vietnam, was even imprisoned, never commanded in war time...and is basically shown himself to be a sellout to the troops he casts votes for while on his senatorial seat.

Any comments on what qualifies one to be CIC?

Any comments on a possible Obama Clark ticket?? 

Some reading on the topic in case I'm a little inaccurate...
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/30/ … index.html

Last edited by IRONCHEF (2008-06-30 10:46:19)

chittydog
less busy
+586|6839|Kubra, Damn it!

IRONCHEF wrote:

a man I respect and who I wish could be president..Wes Clark.
QFE. We need a strong military president now. I don't think Obama will choose him as VP, but I hope he'll at least get Sec. of Defense.
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6495|Northern California

chittydog wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

a man I respect and who I wish could be president..Wes Clark.
QFE. We need a strong military president now. I don't think Obama will choose him as VP, but I hope he'll at least get Sec. of Defense.
That's what I'm hoping for too.  This day and age, it is necessary.  A good cabinet position or something would be perfect and I hope Obama uses Clark somewhere in his presidency.  There isn't alot of dirt on Clark at all which would make him a great VP candidate..if his politics jive with that of Obama..which I don't think do very well..so yeah, def sec is wise.


**MODS**  I accidentally reported chittydog when i meant to quote him..  Sorry bout that chittydog! lol
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6523|Πάϊ

chittydog wrote:

We need a strong military president now.
Why?

Tbh, I don't understand how a person with a military background could even be considered as qualified to be President.
ƒ³
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6495|Northern California
Someone who's commanded men into battle, and is more aware of the true cost of war is ideal and can be more trusted to not use said fighting men/women in battle relying more on their political prowess.  The opposite end of the stick is what we've seen for the last 8 years...a bunch of rich, warmongering chicken hawks with no respect or value on life commanding people into battle with no plans or designs.  I think Wes Clark has a grip on the cost in war.  McCain on the other hand, by reviewing his voting record, shows he's turned into a warmongering politician..though he was against torture..before he was for it. lol  Obama..has no background so he's simply a coin toss who would need to surround himself with those that do understand and value life..which it appears he's doing in Clark.
chittydog
less busy
+586|6839|Kubra, Damn it!

oug wrote:

chittydog wrote:

We need a strong military president now.
Why?

Tbh, I don't understand how a person with a military background could even be considered as qualified to be President.
Uh, we're fighting two wars right now and the president is Commander-in-Chief of the military. I think it's more than appropriate that he have some military background. And by military background, I mean strong military leadership skills (like Gen. Clark has) not going AWOL from the National Guard to avoid a tour in Viet Nam military skills.



IRONCHEF wrote:

**MODS**  I accidentally reported chittydog when i meant to quote him..  Sorry bout that chittydog! lol
lol, don't worry about it. Unless they ban me, then you're dead meat!
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6625|London, England
Question:

Has Obama served?
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6495|Northern California

Mek-Stizzle wrote:

Question:

Has Obama served?
Not a day.  But he's also not pretending he has military expertise to be commander-in-chief.  Hence the related OP wording characterizing McCain as a hypocrite.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6605|132 and Bush

IRONCHEF wrote:

**MODS**  I accidentally reported chittydog when i meant to quote him..  Sorry bout that chittydog! lol
It happens more than you think. NP.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
pndragon26
Member
+23|6690
Well, "honorable and heroic" is something I would love to see in the white house or anywhere.
Have not seen it in a long time. While I agree McCains past does not put him in the Military Genius category, it should not be scoffed at or passed over. He does have a lot political experience as well. The pres. job is not just throwing us into war or commanding troops. So I think a good quality of a president should be a jack of all trades, that knows to surround himself with people smarter than he is (let the Bush jokes fly). What I know of Clark I do like and I think the country could use a change to the left. And Obama is a good fit. I'm a republican and even I see the need to swing left after 8 years of W. I actually like both candidates at this point, never had that happen before. So who they "team up" with will carry a lot of clout. I have to admit I am leaning towards Obama, just think it would benefit the country as a whole.
FatherTed
xD
+3,936|6504|so randum
It can only be a good thing if this guy is as rational and realistic as he sounds. The U.S needs someone like him, someone who fully understands the consequences of Military action.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6559
I find it rather odd that a seeming prerequisite of being the president of a country is that you have been connected to the military. Military leadership is quite at odds with the kind of leadership needed by a melting pot nation where vast numbers of individual different opinions exist. Military leaders are authoritarian 'It's my way or the highway: obey' types by virtue of their profession. Quite unsuitable for a democratic pluralistic nation. That's not saying that some military leaders could overcome these shortcomings, just saying that to expect each political leader to have had military connections is really weird.

https://www.newint.org/issue382/pics/than-shwe.jpg

https://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/670000/images/_671606_musharraf150.jpg

https://www.tlfq.ulaval.ca/axl/asie/images/saddam-hussein.jpg

https://www.thebestlinks.com/images/d/d4/Amin_dada.jpg

https://www2.rnw.nl/assets/images/muammar-gaddafi.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/59/Augusto_Pinochet_-_1995.jpg/225px-Augusto_Pinochet_-_1995.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f7/Franco0001.PNG/200px-Franco0001.PNG

https://www.lions.odu.edu/~kgaubatz/IntLaw/casebook/images/noriega1.png

https://farm1.static.flickr.com/26/103891692_1d03851e9a.jpg?v=1141079233

Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-06-30 14:19:24)

IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6495|Northern California

CameronPoe wrote:

I find it rather odd that a seeming prerequisite of being the president of a country is that you have been connected to the military. Military leadership is quite at odds with the kind of leadership needed by a melting pot nation where vast numbers of individual different opinions exist. Military leaders are authoritarian 'It's my way or the highway: obey' types by virtue of their profession. Quite unsuitable for a democratic pluralistic nation. That's not saying that some military leaders could overcome these shortcomings, just saying that to expect each political leader to have had military connections is really weird.
Well said.  I would, however, argue that someone who hasn't been in command of troops, or hasn't seen the loss created by warfare...would not be reluctant to use the most powerful military in the world.  We've seen 8 years of that lapse of consciousness in Bush and his crony draft deferring warmongering war profiteers.  Someone like Colin Powell (before he sold his soul) would surely know the cost of a life in fighting..and would weigh that out before committing such lives to battle.

War is failed politics.  Politicians who go to war fail at their job...some don't even try being diplomats like certain leaders we all know.  A leader who knows that cost, who shows restraint, someone liberal/flexible enough to figure things out..especially in todays battlefronts and nuclear powers abounding...is the way to go.

Might not need a military savvy leader in Ireland, but this warfaring/warmongering country could sure use it.  I don't think the idea that a soldier type president is simply going to have war on his mind (to take that quote and use it correctly) is applicable...well, McCain's head is probably still partially locked into his confinement in Vietnam and may very well act accordingly under enough stress and nuke the eastern hemisphere. lol

EDIT:
I think it would also be fair to point out that some of our best presidents have been former military.  Washington, Adams, T Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Kennedy.  Of course others who were military were not so good...bush..and bush.  lol

Can't speak for those military leaders, but it's understandable that you'd figure there wouldn't be a difference in US leaders from those you showed pictures of...but like kmarion says below...we have a much different system than those leaders..most of which were dictators, self appointed criminals, etc who have no precedent like our founding fathers had and established through our revolution, nor did their causes from what I can see, equal that of ours.  Plus, they're all nimrods! lol

Last edited by IRONCHEF (2008-06-30 14:37:09)

Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6605|132 and Bush

The President can not do anything without Congress Cam. Checks and balances. A President with military understanding is an asset. It should not be the only reason for electing a leader though.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6605|132 and Bush

IRONCHEF wrote:

EDIT:
I think it would also be fair to point out that some of our best presidents have been former military.  Washington, Adams, T Roosevelt, Eisenhower, Kennedy.  Of course others who were military were not so good...bush..and bush.  lol
Adams was a lawyer no?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6134|North Tonawanda, NY

Kmarion wrote:

Adams was a lawyer no?
Yes, John Adams was a lawyer.
PureFodder
Member
+225|6289

SenorToenails wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Adams was a lawyer no?
Yes, John Adams was a lawyer.
An army lawyer, the ultimate force. He'd shoot you then sue you for damaging his bullets.
(T)eflon(S)hadow
R.I.P. Neda
+456|6833|Grapevine, TX
Clark is a piece. I wouldnt even salute him if I was still enlisted. I dont take that statement lightly.

Ill look up the sources of garbage he is... thank you for your patience...


1st UPDATE:
https://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r123/teflonshadow/CLARK---IN-HIS-O.jpg

I dont have a paid membership to view the archived data at the NYPost...
http://pqarchiver.nypost.com/nypost/acc … %27+WESLEY

^^^ Wesley Clark: The New Anti-War Candidate? http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1839


Funny that I keep running into "Page not Found" looking for these things about MR Clark...
Home » About msnbc.com
Page not found
Our web servers cannot find the page or file you asked for.
The link you followed may be broken or expired.

Last edited by (T)eflon(S)hadow (2008-06-30 16:08:04)

Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6605|132 and Bush

PureFodder wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Adams was a lawyer no?
Yes, John Adams was a lawyer.
An army lawyer, the ultimate force. He'd shoot you then sue you for damaging his bullets.
Or he would just defend British troops and get them off scott free .
He represented them pro-bono, Adams was never a member of any Army.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
IRONCHEF
Member
+385|6495|Northern California

(T)eflon(S)hadow wrote:

Clark is a piece. I wouldnt even salute him if I was still enlisted. I dont take that statement lightly.

Ill look up the sources of garbage he is... thank you for your patience...


1st UPDATE:
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r123 … -HIS-O.jpg
Oooooh...scathing.  So what's the garbage?  Is he not abundantly qualified to critique John McCain or isn't he?  Is his appraisal of John McCain not accurate?  Back to your neocon blogs and message boards for more graphics...

Last edited by IRONCHEF (2008-06-30 15:36:35)

kylef
Gone
+1,352|6497|N. Ireland

IRONCHEF wrote:

Back to your neocon blogs and message boards for more graphics...
https://www.toothpastefordinner.com/110406/liberal-drinking-game.gif
CameronPoe
Member
+2,925|6559
Basically what Teflon is showing us is that both Clark and McCain are a couple of fucking morons unfit for office.
(T)eflon(S)hadow
R.I.P. Neda
+456|6833|Grapevine, TX

CameronPoe wrote:

Basically what Teflon is showing us is that both Clark and McCain are a couple of fucking morons unfit for office.
I would be happy to fix that statement and show that all candidates and politicians are not worthy to serve... 

+1 Cam, as much as we have debated and not seen eye to eye on most issues, you hit the bullseye on this one.
God Save the Queen
Banned
+628|6347|tropical regions of london
move to somalia, you could be government free as long as you live
usmarine2
Banned
+233|5795|Dublin, Ohio

God Save the Queen wrote:

move to somalia, you could be government free as long as you live
yup.

Board footer

Privacy Policy - © 2024 Jeff Minard