The Palestinians have mostly stopped being violent. The violence comes from Iran, which is using Hamas and other groups to prolong the conflict.CaptainSpaulding71 wrote:
isn't the oppression self imposed? if the palestinians would quit acting miltarily and stop killing innocent people, world pressure would surely make Israel and Palestine have a two state solution where they can co-exist in peace. as it stands, palestinians target innocents, israel is forced to react. what does one expect israel to do in this case? it is attacked and is reacting.rammunition wrote:
I knew it wouldn't long before this video was called a "fake" by apologists. If people can read cameras were handed out by Israeli peace groups to Palestinians to record abuse.
And one more thing, when you are under oppression, there is no such thing as terrorism, its called freedom fighting!
my assertion is that if palestine wanted to get to the end goal of getting their own state and even eliminating the state of israel, they could do this non-militarily. through world pressure, they could get their own state side by side with israel. then, they might even be able to stage attacks and defeat israel legally since they'd have soverign territory arguments which could draw the UN into play, etc. Also, by splitting up israel geogrphically they could control some of israel's resources like water, power, etc. my claim is that they can get to the end goal FASTER through non-violence now and strategically they could later turn violent when israel is weaker through the two state solution.
my belief however is that if the palestinians stop the violence and do eventually get their own state, that through a few generations (since this all takes alot of time), the young people will be more satisfied with their lives than now and violence will become less of an alternative since their lives are not as shitty. so, to also will the desire to erase the state of israel. so perhaps through non-violence they could actually increase the standard of living and be happier.
the other half of this equation is support from local arab states like syria, egypt, etc. right now, these countries use the palestinians as pawns (i said this before) and thorn in side of israel because they don't want israel to exist.
I thought he was a cooooock. Why? i dunno, just always percieved him as a twat.Vax wrote:
Riiiight.m3thod wrote:
al gore is more of a douche than bush? IMO bush is on a whole different planet and i thought that way before iraq. I really don't know how you lot never saw it.Kmarion wrote:
Al Gore is a douche. Kerry was the alternative.
So what issue did you have with Bush before Iraq ?
I should play the lottery more.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
Many of us thought they were both cocks. I didn't even vote in that election, I found them both to be lacking any presidential qualities -- 2000 was like the year of the mediocre candidates. I was a democrat at the time, but feeling pretty burned by Clinton (who I had voted for, only to have him screwing around with interns, then lying about it, instead of doing his job)
So I said screw it -- then we had the most indecisive election I can ever remember.
So I said screw it -- then we had the most indecisive election I can ever remember.
Jewish settlers are nuts...
Turquoise wrote:
Jewish settlers are nuts...
The oppression is self-imposed? Are you joking?isn't the oppression self imposed? if the palestinians would quit acting miltarily and stop killing innocent people, world pressure would surely make Israel and Palestine have a two state solution where they can co-exist in peace. as it stands, palestinians target innocents, israel is forced to react. what does one expect israel to do in this case? it is attacked and is reacting.
If the 'Israelis' would just move back to Germany and Russia there would be no oppression.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
not joking - trying to make a point. i was arguing that their misery would be lessened if they stopped acting militarily. they would progress faster as a society by not acting as violent. but as it happens, they keep acting militarily, hence hampering their way of life since any sane country is forced to react when attacked. Therefore, their plight is in fact partially self-imposed.Dilbert_X wrote:
The oppression is self-imposed? Are you joking?isn't the oppression self imposed? if the palestinians would quit acting miltarily and stop killing innocent people, world pressure would surely make Israel and Palestine have a two state solution where they can co-exist in peace. as it stands, palestinians target innocents, israel is forced to react. what does one expect israel to do in this case? it is attacked and is reacting.
If the 'Israelis' would just move back to Germany and Russia there would be no oppression.
i'd also argue that they should relocate the palestinians to Jordan, Syrian, and Lebanon. Then too there would be no oppression of palestinians in Israel. There would however be oppression towards palestinians living in their new digs because their brothers view them as just tools to stick it to the israelis
I don't mean to sound insulting towards you but I think your view here is overly simplistic. The Palestinians haven't arrived at their current position of militarism as the result of some sort of vote taken in the local town hall back in 1948. Militarism and political struggle like this grows out of anger, oppression and maltreatment. To take the view that Israel have been simply trying to mind their own business and that Palestine have been continually attacking them without good reason is very naive. Furthermore it is very difficult for a people as a whole to stand up and speak democratically against militarism when the military capabilities of their paramilitary organisations become too great; coercion and bully-boy tactics become a factor in many communities, especially those where hardship is felt worse and to collectively punish the people as a whole is simply not fair.CaptainSpaulding71 wrote:
not joking - trying to make a point. i was arguing that their misery would be lessened if they stopped acting militarily. they would progress faster as a society by not acting as violent. but as it happens, they keep acting militarily, hence hampering their way of life since any sane country is forced to react when attacked. Therefore, their plight is in fact partially self-imposed.Dilbert_X wrote:
The oppression is self-imposed? Are you joking?isn't the oppression self imposed? if the palestinians would quit acting miltarily and stop killing innocent people, world pressure would surely make Israel and Palestine have a two state solution where they can co-exist in peace. as it stands, palestinians target innocents, israel is forced to react. what does one expect israel to do in this case? it is attacked and is reacting.
If the 'Israelis' would just move back to Germany and Russia there would be no oppression.
i'd also argue that they should relocate the palestinians to Jordan, Syrian, and Lebanon. Then too there would be no oppression of palestinians in Israel. There would however be oppression towards palestinians living in their new digs because their brothers view them as just tools to stick it to the israelis
Also, the assertion that Palestinians should be relocated to Jordan, Syria or Lebanon is unacceptable. Why should they have to move? Whatever about Middle Eastern Jews, it defies logic that an American, Russian or Ukranian Jew should have more right to live in Palestine than a Palestinian.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7458926.stm
Wow the 'Palestinian Propaganda' was so realistic that the culprits have actually been arrested by the Israeli police.... lol
Wow the 'Palestinian Propaganda' was so realistic that the culprits have actually been arrested by the Israeli police.... lol
Those evil Israeli's. Im confused though. I thought they would have been caught and given a heros parade. ??CameronPoe wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7458926.stm
Wow the 'Palestinian Propaganda' was so realistic that the culprits have actually been arrested by the Israeli police.... lol
The Arabs could also move back from the Persians land as well but what ya gonna do.Dilbert_X wrote:
The oppression is self-imposed? Are you joking?isn't the oppression self imposed? if the palestinians would quit acting miltarily and stop killing innocent people, world pressure would surely make Israel and Palestine have a two state solution where they can co-exist in peace. as it stands, palestinians target innocents, israel is forced to react. what does one expect israel to do in this case? it is attacked and is reacting.
If the 'Israelis' would just move back to Germany and Russia there would be no oppression.
They're there now and will remain so, live with it.
Don't worry they already celebrate the deeds of their terrorists.rawls2 wrote:
Those evil Israeli's. Im confused though. I thought they would have been caught and given a heros parade. ??CameronPoe wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7458926.stm
Wow the 'Palestinian Propaganda' was so realistic that the culprits have actually been arrested by the Israeli police.... lol
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
But I dont understand why Israel bothered to catch them in the first place or even better not give them sanctuary?m3thod wrote:
Don't worry they already celebrate the deeds of their terrorists.rawls2 wrote:
Those evil Israeli's. Im confused though. I thought they would have been caught and given a heros parade. ??CameronPoe wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7458926.stm
Wow the 'Palestinian Propaganda' was so realistic that the culprits have actually been arrested by the Israeli police.... lol
I'm sure the Hamas government is busy tracking down Palestinian terrorist that attack Israelis with bats.rawls2 wrote:
Those evil Israeli's. Im confused though. I thought they would have been caught and given a heros parade. ??CameronPoe wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7458926.stm
Wow the 'Palestinian Propaganda' was so realistic that the culprits have actually been arrested by the Israeli police.... lol
Just going through motions. Do you really think these people are going to be eventually prosecuted? It's a show.rawls2 wrote:
But I dont understand why Israel bothered to catch them in the first place or even better not give them sanctuary?m3thod wrote:
Don't worry they already celebrate the deeds of their terrorists.rawls2 wrote:
Those evil Israeli's. Im confused though. I thought they would have been caught and given a heros parade. ??
And i was referring to Israeli Terrorist who are celebrated like Baruch Goldstein and people who go along to parties to celebrate the anniversary of a terrorist attack like i dunno former prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu (60th anniversary of King David Hotel Bombing).
Perception needs to change.
Blackbelts are just whitebelts who have never quit.
Hmmm just like the Pali martyrs, interesting.m3thod wrote:
Just going through motions. Do you really think these people are going to be eventually prosecuted? It's a show.rawls2 wrote:
But I dont understand why Israel bothered to catch them in the first place or even better not give them sanctuary?m3thod wrote:
Don't worry they already celebrate the deeds of their terrorists.
And i was referring to Israeli Terrorist who are celebrated like Baruch Goldstein and people who go along to parties to celebrate the anniversary of a terrorist attack like i dunno former prime minister Benjamin Netanyahu (60th anniversary of King David Hotel Bombing).
Perception needs to change.
But I thought it was all a big fake for propaganda purposes, no?Lotta_Drool wrote:
I'm sure the Hamas government is busy tracking down Palestinian terrorist that attack Israelis with bats.rawls2 wrote:
Those evil Israeli's. Im confused though. I thought they would have been caught and given a heros parade. ??CameronPoe wrote:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7458926.stm
Wow the 'Palestinian Propaganda' was so realistic that the culprits have actually been arrested by the Israeli police.... lol
Yes but now the Israeli's have added their piece of the propaganda by "arresting" the perpetrators, you know, just going thru the motions.Braddock wrote:
But I thought it was all a big fake for propaganda purposes, no?Lotta_Drool wrote:
I'm sure the Hamas government is busy tracking down Palestinian terrorist that attack Israelis with bats.rawls2 wrote:
Those evil Israeli's. Im confused though. I thought they would have been caught and given a heros parade. ??
Could a moderator please check who left my last karma message please and take appropriate action. Some xenophobic nut without a clue hasn't the balls to argue his point on the forum. A xenophobic nut who seems to be oblivious to how the state of Israel was created: through Europeans (albeit Jewish Europeans) invading land owned and occupied by Arabs. Message to nut: Moses said 'Thou shalt not steal'. Square that with your Zionist bullshit.
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-06-17 12:46:49)
This is obviously fake, like all other things the Arabs let out, so the stupid soft leftwing Westerners feel sympathy for them.
Even though they burn our flag, and want sharia law in the whole world.
My sympathy is with the Israelis, they only protect themselfs, by terminating potential attackers.
Even though they burn our flag, and want sharia law in the whole world.
My sympathy is with the Israelis, they only protect themselfs, by terminating potential attackers.
So fake that the Israelis arrested those responsible.... pfffffft. Think/research before you post.Dr.PhiL wrote:
This is obviously fake, like all other things the Arabs let out, so the stupid soft leftwing Westerners feel sympathy for them.
Even though they burn our flag, and want sharia law in the whole world.
My sympathy is with the Israelis, they only protect themselfs, by terminating potential attackers.
This propaganda is contradicting the propaganda
I just checked your BF2 stats: you're Danish - that explains everything... and you're probably the one who left me that karma. You should get a clue and read about the birth of Israel. You guys got invaded by Nazi Germany - that wasn't fun was it? Same shit happened to the Palestinians. Your black and white view of the world is immature, vacuous and helps noone.Dr.PhiL wrote:
This propaganda is contradicting the propaganda
Last edited by CameronPoe (2008-06-17 12:56:23)
every country has propaganda you be a fool not to thing one does notLotta_Drool wrote:
The Palestinians fake films like this all the time and the media runs them. I will never believe their propaganda.
How naive can you be. Israel was founded by other nations. How could you expect them to say "No we dont want that land becasue it belongs to someone else." Blame France, Gremany, UK, and us but not the Israelis.CameronPoe wrote:
I just checked your BF2 stats: you're Danish - that explains everything... and you're probably the one who left me that karma. You should get a clue and read about the birth of Israel. You guys got invaded by Nazi Germany - that wasn't fun was it? Same shit happened to the Palestinians. Your black and white view of the world is immature, vacuous and helps noone.Dr.PhiL wrote:
This propaganda is contradicting the propaganda