BF2S Forums The Hypocrisy Of America

ZombieVampire! wrote:

OrangeHound wrote:

They are effectively policed, at least in the US ... they are not as "cowboy" as some would imagine.   That stereotype is from the 1960s/1970s.  Today's intelligence agencies are highly political with much control.

Now, you may not like what they do or how they do it, but their activities are well-regulated.

BTW, I don't work in this stuff anymore for ethical/moral reasons (if that is a hint).

But how do they manage it?  How can you effectively review top secret papers, whilst keeping them top secret?

Obviously, not every top secret paper is reviewed.  Actually, most is shredded. 

But, around here we are the PowerPoint capital of the world.  Life is all "briefings" ... there is a constant flow of briefing material being produced to communicate what is going on and the conclusions that are being reached.  I should mention, that all political leaders in the administration (elected and appointed) have Top Secret clearances & tickets in the relevant areas from which they receive the briefings (Defense, Energy, State, etc), and that corresponding congressional oversight committee members have these same clearances.

ZombieVampire! wrote:

How have you proven anything?  You've provided a Wikipedia source for a body who are supposed to look in on the CIA, and you've accused me of ignoring people because I'm so stubborn.  The efficacy of oversight is exactly what the discussion is about, the second claim is demonstrably wrong.

ZombieVampire! wrote:

OP:  I'd honestly wonder how far this is the CIA acting on their own.  The US government doesn't strike me as having a whole lot of control over the CIA.

you asked, a few people have delivered now.


but because you "dont trust intelligence agencies", it falls on deaf ears anyway........



so this:

ZombieVampire! wrote:

OP:  I'd honestly wonder how far this is the CIA acting on their own.  The US government doesn't strike me as having a whole lot of control over the CIA.

was just rhetoric at the end of the day


im done now, but please continue explaining the intricacies of the intelligence community.
im sure people are just awe struck at your knowledge

ZombieVampire! wrote:

But how do they know the info is getting to the briefings?  Or do they have the intelligence agencies moniter each other?

Not sure I know what you are talking about.  Obviously, not every detail is getting into the briefings or is revealed in Q&A with the briefers.  But, intelligence agencies are both a service to their superiors and an agent of their superiors.  I've never run into a rogue operation, and I've never encountered or heard of a portion of the agencies trying to be deceptive to their superiors or carry out some agenda that is contrary to their superiors.

Now, as I alluded to before (and is implied by this thread), the things that intelligence does might seem quite shocking to the average American; but, the administration AND congress is fully aware of what is being done within those agencies.

(This is one of the reasons I find the whole "Bush lied to us" phrase so humorous ... Congress saw the same intelligence briefings as the President and the administration). 

Finally, things may have changed in the last few years, but in the past the intelligence agencies do not interact with one another and they do not monitor each other.

ZombieVampire! wrote:

I'm essentially asking: what's stopping them from fudging the breifings?

Well, crap, sure ... anyone can lie to their superiors.  But the consequences in this arena are severe. 

You see, everyone with TS clearances gets regular batteries of lie-detector tests.  So, a few months later during the lie-detector screenings, they'll be flagged & investigated/interrogated.  They'll lose their clearance and their job.  If found to be sabotaging the US government's policies, then they'll be put in jail for 40-60 years.

OrangeHound wrote:

ZombieVampire! wrote:

I'm essentially asking: what's stopping them from fudging the breifings?

Well, crap, sure ... anyone can lie to their superiors.  But the consequences in this arena are severe. 

You see, everyone with TS clearances gets regular batteries of lie-detector tests.  So, a few months later during the lie-detector screenings, they'll be flagged & investigated/interrogated.  They'll lose their clearance and their job.  If found to be sabotaging the US government's policies, then they'll be put in jail for 40-60 years.

Can't you be shot for sabotaging stuff like that? Wasn't sure if it would fall under treason or something.

OrangeHound wrote:

ZombieVampire! wrote:

I'm essentially asking: what's stopping them from fudging the breifings?

Well, crap, sure ... anyone can lie to their superiors.  But the consequences in this arena are severe. 

You see, everyone with TS clearances gets regular batteries of lie-detector tests.  So, a few months later during the lie-detector screenings, they'll be flagged & investigated/interrogated.  They'll lose their clearance and their job.  If found to be sabotaging the US government's policies, then they'll be put in jail for 40-60 years.

I want to add something else ... if I hold a clearance, and notice a person being deceptive to superiors or breaking some other "trust" that is part of the clearances, I must report their activity.  Otherwise, I am in violation of my security clearance agreement.

ZombieVampire! wrote:

Aussie:  Except OrangeHound said they didn't do that.

OrangeHound wrote:

ZombieVampire! wrote:

I'm essentially asking: what's stopping them from fudging the breifings?

Well, crap, sure ... anyone can lie to their superiors.  But the consequences in this arena are severe. 

You see, everyone with TS clearances gets regular batteries of lie-detector tests.  So, a few months later during the lie-detector screenings, they'll be flagged & investigated/interrogated.  They'll lose their clearance and their job.  If found to be sabotaging the US government's policies, then they'll be put in jail for 40-60 years.

Presumably their accuracy is better than the commercial ones (which IIRC correctly aren't usable in court?)?  Or do they just make them likely to render false positives rather than negatives and then innocence is cleared up in the investigation?

I don't think it matters.  If you fail a question, you are in for an investigation at some level.

I failed a question once ... actually three times ...  (because it was so HORRIBLY worded) and the next thing I knew ....

OrangeHound wrote:

I don't think it matters.  If you fail a question, you are in for an investigation at some level.

What if you pass one you should fail?

ZombieVampire! wrote:

OrangeHound wrote:

I don't think it matters.  If you fail a question, you are in for an investigation at some level.

What if you pass one you should fail?

Well, then you pass.  I believe that Aldrich Aimes consistently passed his polygraphs. 

But with each one of these cases, they learn and strengthen the methods they use to discover those who violate their security clearances.  The background investigations cover most aspects about a person ... one gives up a lot of personal privacy to get a clearance.

rammunition wrote:

We read about Iran apparently arming shia militia in Iraq to fight the U.S

BUT

Did you know the U.S is arming/funding/helping groups to kill Iranian soldiers and civilians???


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne … -Iran.html

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/200 … xclus.html


Yet again america makes one rule for themselves, and one for others, the hypocrisy of America doesn't surprise me anymore.

Knew about this for years. What else is new suicide bombing?

Usually those who worry about others, are the real ones who need to be worried about.

I'm talking about you people in Britain who worry so much about America, you have your own problems, worry about yours not ours.

As soon as you learn to properly debate or even stick with one thread YOU created, no one will take your comments into consideration.

You make an anti-american thread, respond to selected posts within a few hours time, and ignore any post that descredits you, only to never come back to it later.

Why don't you just make a new thread with in some america bashing comments, and ask a mod to close it for you.

OH SORRY YEAH->

rammunition wrote:

Stay on topic please, Amerifags

Anytime a post makes a good point, you ignore it or post "stay on topic".

blah blah blah and what the fuck ever Ram.  Learn to debate, and maybe i'll start to consider your dumb ass posts again.

rammunition wrote:

RoosterCantrell wrote:

As soon as you learn to properly debate or even stick with one thread YOU created, no one will take your comments into consideration.

You make an anti-american thread, respond to selected posts within a few hours time, and ignore any post that descredits you, only to never come back to it later.

Why don't you just make a new thread with in some america bashing comments, and ask a mod to close it for you.

OH SORRY YEAH->

rammunition wrote:

Stay on topic please, Amerifags

Anytime a post makes a good point, you ignore it or post "stay on topic".

blah blah blah and what the fuck ever Ram.  Learn to debate, and maybe i'll start to consider your dumb ass posts again.

what i love is that Americans think they are perfect and do no wrong, the dilution is laughable. Its no wonder why people in Britain, YES Britain are starting to get fed up with the yanks

I'm not fed up with them, how many have you actually MET in person?