BF2S Forums Free Will vs. Predestination

Kmarion wrote:

lowing wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Yes we will come and go. Yes we are "tiny". But you have not explained why we search for the basic fundamentals of creation. You have made your peace with simply being. Humanity on the whole for 650k years has not. Who is being arrogant now?

We search for it because we have evolved the capacity to do so. It does not mean there is an answer to be found. In my opinion however, if there is an answer to be found it will not be in the realm of man made religion or deities.

You still have not reasonably explained the desire. Men have died exploring the heavens, billions of dollars have been spent reaching other celestial bodies. This idea of we do it because we can falls flat when you look at the consequence we are willing to bear on our quest to understand.

I guess we do it to answer the questions that you pose in the first place. All I am saying, is when and if we find the answer, we will probably be disappointed.

Kinda like learning the secret to a magic trick, so puzzling and perplexing when you do not know the secret, yet, when revealed, so stupendously simple, you can not believe you fell for it, and the magic is gone.

Kmarion wrote:

lowing wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Yes it is instinct (Kinda my point). And yes the scientific theory revolves around tangibles. However we have made plenty of great leaps in understanding based around intangibles. Your argument is based around things we can not know right now. There may be in the distant future ways to verify theories. (Exploring black holes might be one way)

Black holes, wow, who wants to be the first test pilot to make that flight??

I hear Chuck Norris is volunteering.

When Superman goes to bed he puts on his Chuck Norris pajamas

Before the Boggieman goes to sleep, he checks his closet for Chuck Norris.


A few of my favorites..

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

lowing wrote:

We search for it because we have evolved the capacity to do so. It does not mean there is an answer to be found. In my opinion however, if there is an answer to be found it will not be in the realm of man made religion or deities.

You still have not reasonably explained the desire. Men have died exploring the heavens, billions of dollars have been spent reaching other celestial bodies. This idea of we do it because we can falls flat when you look at the consequence we are willing to bear on our quest to understand.

I can't speak for lowing, but I personally feel that the arrogance has to do with when people assume without any doubt that their interpretation of god is correct.  It's not the zeal for discovery that is arrogant, it's the thought that you know something that can't be known that is.

there ya have it. good post Turquoise

Kmarion wrote:

lowing wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

You still have not reasonably explained the desire. Men have died exploring the heavens, billions of dollars have been spent reaching other celestial bodies. This idea of we do it because we can falls flat when you look at the consequence we are willing to bear on our quest to understand.

I guess we do it to answer the questions that you pose in the first place. All I am saying, is when and if we find the answer, we will probably be disappointed.

Kinda like learning the secret to a magic trick, so puzzling and perplexing when you do not know the secret, yet, when revealed, so stupendously simple, you can not believe you fell for it, and the magic is gone.

A bunch of unemployed scientist.. that's all guys, clean out your lockers..lol.

Well, now that you mention it, could the money spent on solving the mystery of life be better utilized solving problems a little closer to home?

Kmarion wrote:

You still have not reasonably explained the desire. Men have died exploring the heavens, billions of dollars have been spent reaching other celestial bodies. This idea of we do it because we can falls flat when you look at the consequence we are willing to bear on our quest to understand.

Why do you believe the answer will lie within the skies?  Perhaps the answer lies within ourselves...understanding our "soul" or conscious?

When you "think" what makes it something other than a bio-chemical electrical reaction? 

I believe that if the entire universe is made of matter, we have plenty here we don't understand.  I'm sure that's why the massive particle collider was built in some way.

I always wonder why we don't spend more time looking "within".  What makes our existence "not random" or "random"?  Is there some basic principle to be learned to shed light on "everything"?

Ps. The answer you are looking for is 42.

Kmarion wrote:

You still have not reasonably explained the desire. Men have died exploring the heavens, billions of dollars have been spent reaching other celestial bodies. This idea of we do it because we can falls flat when you look at the consequence we are willing to bear on our quest to understand.

People want to understand things around them.  The more you know, the more questions you have.

It's an avalanche which starts with things you can directly observe and interact with and leads to things much, much greater.

Pug wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

You still have not reasonably explained the desire. Men have died exploring the heavens, billions of dollars have been spent reaching other celestial bodies. This idea of we do it because we can falls flat when you look at the consequence we are willing to bear on our quest to understand.

Why do you believe the answer will lie within the skies?  Perhaps the answer lies within ourselves...understanding our "soul" or conscious?

When you "think" what makes it something other than a bio-chemical electrical reaction? 

I believe that if the entire universe is made of matter, we have plenty here we don't understand.  I'm sure that's why the massive particle collider was built in some way.

I always wonder why we don't spend more time looking "within".  What makes our existence "not random" or "random"?  Is there some basic principle to be learned to shed light on "everything"?

Ps. The answer you are looking for is 42.

I can not say for certain where the answer lies. I believe it was you who made the argument for tangibles. Science has led us to believe that we should be looking in that direction.

SenorToenails wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

You still have not reasonably explained the desire. Men have died exploring the heavens, billions of dollars have been spent reaching other celestial bodies. This idea of we do it because we can falls flat when you look at the consequence we are willing to bear on our quest to understand.

People want to understand things around them.  The more you know, the more questions you have.

It's an avalanche which starts with things you can directly observe and interact with and leads to things much, much greater.

I believe it to be a healthy avalanche.. up until intolerance is interjected.

Fine,

I will finally reveal the meaning of life.  You made me.

The meaning of life is curiosity.  Our purpose in this universe is to ask questions and then answer them.  Our function is to explore physically and intellectually. 


Some could argue that religion, god, morality, ethics and specifically faith are the antithesis of the meaning of life.  They are the aritficial barriers.  And that itself is one of the big questions we are still asking and will probably always ask.

Kmarion wrote:

Pug wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

You still have not reasonably explained the desire. Men have died exploring the heavens, billions of dollars have been spent reaching other celestial bodies. This idea of we do it because we can falls flat when you look at the consequence we are willing to bear on our quest to understand.

Why do you believe the answer will lie within the skies?  Perhaps the answer lies within ourselves...understanding our "soul" or conscious?

When you "think" what makes it something other than a bio-chemical electrical reaction? 

I believe that if the entire universe is made of matter, we have plenty here we don't understand.  I'm sure that's why the massive particle collider was built in some way.

I always wonder why we don't spend more time looking "within".  What makes our existence "not random" or "random"?  Is there some basic principle to be learned to shed light on "everything"?

Ps. The answer you are looking for is 42.

I can not say for certain where the answer lies. I believe it was you who made the argument for tangibles. Science has led us to believe that we should be looking in that direction.

Sometimes I wonder if its because we like pretty lights, or its something primeval within our psyche which makes us believe the answer is in the sky?  At night the sky is much more wondrous than during the day, so perhaps that fascination has played a part throughout mankinds' history as the "wondrous source of the unexplained"?  Supposedly God's in Heaven, which is traditionally up in the sky right?  But people say God's every where, so why isn't Heaven all around us instead of "in the clouds"? 

But what of the questions I asked?  Step back from the stars for a sec.

Where's your consciousness within you?  Is it behind your eyes?  Back of the head?  How do I measure it?  What makes us self-aware?  Is my perspective the "truth" when considering consciousness?

Seems simple...but...

See, I just proved its possible to stay up too late...nite all.

Pug wrote:

Sometimes I wonder if its because we like pretty lights, or its something primeval within our psyche which makes us believe the answer is in the sky?  At night the sky is much more wondrous than during the day, so perhaps that fascination has played a part throughout mankinds' history as the "wondrous source of the unexplained"?  Supposedly God's in Heaven, which is traditionally up in the sky right?  But people say God's every where, so why isn't Heaven all around us instead of "in the clouds"?

The sky is a place where you can't go.  If I look to the oceans, I can go see what is there.  If I look to the heavens, I cannot.

I think this is also why my cat always tries to escape from my apartment.

Freewill is an illusion of the conscious mind. If we accept that we make all our major decisions at a subconscious level before it metaphorically percolates into the "conscious" mind, then you have to accept that we just are not in control of our destiny.  the conscious "us" is just along for the ride..

Last edited by IG-Calibre (2008-05-28 06:06:35)