BF2S Forums Do you consider speeding to be reckless driving?

SenorToenails wrote:

dan673 wrote:

My point is that there is a difference between a skillful driver, and a reckless driver. And yes, they're are skillful drivers. I never said that person wouldn't be driving like an asshat, but what I tried to say is that they are committing themselves to safety, rather than doing none of those tings I mentioned.

I will agree to that in a very limited extent.  My cause for concern is that the skilled driver pulling those moves cannot assume that the other cars on the road will not do something erratic, especially when they are cutting things close.  The safety guidelines for driving exist for a reason, and it is to account for people of all skill levels driving on the same roads.

I fully agree. Nobody can ever tell when a car will decide to shift lanes, brake erratically, etc.

Last edited by dan673 (2008-05-26 22:44:53)

Yes, but if I'm late, I tend to do it anyway.

dan673 wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

dan673 wrote:

My point is that there is a difference between a skillful driver, and a reckless driver. And yes, they're are skillful drivers. I never said that person wouldn't be driving like an asshat, but what I tried to say is that they are committing themselves to safety, rather than doing none of those tings I mentioned.

I will agree to that in a very limited extent.  My cause for concern is that the skilled driver pulling those moves cannot assume that the other cars on the road will not do something erratic, especially when they are cutting things close.  The safety guidelines for driving exist for a reason, and it is to account for people of all skill levels driving on the same roads.

I fully agree. Nobody can ever tell when a car will decide to shift lanes, brake erratically, etc.

Then how can you justify a skilled driver speeding?

ZombieVampire! wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

ZombieVampire! wrote:

At which point you slow down to get the buffer again.

Then you can become a road hazard to everyone traveling the speed limit.

Uh..........no.  If you're slowing isn't sudden or unpredictable it's not going to contribute to an accident.

Don't underestimate the power of stupid drivers.

ZombieVampire! wrote:

Further, whilst speed differentials are a big issue, a difference of, say, 5km/h at about 80km/h isn't likely to be a big problem.  Further, if simply slowing turns you into a hazard you'd never be able to stop.

Yes it is. If you're doing 80KM/h then you're obviously in an area where attaining such speeds is acceptable and there probably won't be a need to slam your breaks on. But if you're going 80KM/h in a zone where the limit is 50KM/h then shame on the driver.

Every difference is major. 1 KM/h may or may not kill lives. Whether you're going 100 KM/h or 10 KM/h.

SenorToenails wrote:

Phantom traffic jams only make the situation worse.  If everyone would drive in a civil manner, things would be great.  But since we don't, this is what we get...

Well that was............helpful?

I don't know what the video was demonstrating.  The cars went around in circles.  What was the point?

Zombie_Affair wrote:

Don't underestimate the power of stupid drivers.

Which is why I give them plenty of room.  Is there something I'm missing?

Zombie_Affair wrote:

Yes it is. If you're doing 80KM/h then you're obviously in an area where attaining such speeds is acceptable and there probably won't be a need to slam your breaks on.

Probably won't.  But if any slowing at all is an issue then it doesn't matter, you're all screwed anyway.

Zombie_Affair wrote:

Every difference is major. 1 KM/h may or may not kill lives. Whether you're going 100 KM/h or 10 KM/h.

I don't think you quite understand the word major.  Perhaps you should look it up in a dictionary.  Any dfference may cause and accident but the more major it is the more likely it is.

Oops, sorry I know a Gary Brock - Peter Brock it is.

No.  Reckless driving is reckless driving (California Vehicle Code says so) and speeding is speeding (likewise a seperate and distinct CVC section). 

Aside of the vehicle code, no, it is not the same thing.  Yes, someone speeding can also be reckless.  But when you go 56 in a 55, no, you are NOT reckless in ANY degree...especially since the "flow" of traffic is at least 65 in that same zone.

Some examples of how one can get a reckless driving ticket in my neck of the woods:
1) changing too many lanes in too short of a distance (i did 4 lanes once to make an exit in under a quarter mile, and was pulled over and chastised..not given a ticket, but chastised for "reckless driving."  I wasn't given a ticket because it was a perfectly controlled set of lane changes with no danger to others...which is why i didn't get a ticket probably.  So this is an example of the difference between reckless driving and speeding.

2) I was pulled over for going "90" on a 75 (Interstate freeway 5 SB) (I was really going 105 but the cop sucks).  When the Camaro Z28 CHP car finally caught up to me, he told me that ANY speeding ticket over 90 is an automatic "reckless driving" charge and has it's punishment seperate from the speeding charge....i'm just glad he sucks at pacing speeders.

3) Cell phone users who go too slow on a California freeway and cause traffic problems can also get a reckless driving ticket.  Can't wait for 7/1/08!!

Last edited by IRONCHEF (2008-05-27 11:17:35)

Dude, I've driven in many cities, and even foreign countries.  Nothing is more reckless than driving in Utah! lol  That little gridlocking wonder you call traffic...where everyone goes the same speed..in ALL lanes...perfectly staggered so nobody can get through or around...is enough to make you jump out of your car into traffic to kill yourself!  And you're right..it is ONLY 5-10mph above the limit.  On surface streets (9th east in SLC for example), the wife and I call it "The Idiot Ballet" because of that haphazzard way Utah motorists take to traffic oblivious of how to merge, how to judge traffic speed, how to make eye contact with people in lanes they move into!  I could go one but wont.  Brrrrr...i'm getting chills just thinking of driving on I-15 in one of the endless construction zones where people just can't figure out the lane shifts that occur constantly....

Having done Ogden to Provo drives hundreds of times, I can say I'd rather drive in any city over Utah any day of the week....even San Jose, CA where you risk life and limb daily because of all the asian drivers there that have zero awareness or sight depth! lol

ZombieVampire! wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

Phantom traffic jams only make the situation worse.  If everyone would drive in a civil manner, things would be great.  But since we don't, this is what we get...

Well that was............helpful?

I don't know what the video was demonstrating.  The cars went around in circles.  What was the point?

The point of that was to show the issues relating to driving too close behind people. If you're too close, and the person infront changes speeds slightly, you have to respond but will obviously brake more than them (if you're too close you can't risk braking too little). The person behind then does the same because they were too close, the knock on effect is you end up with traffic moving much slower as shown in the video. If everyone gives enough room to the person infront they can slow a little and you get a little time to see what they did before responding thereby preventing this type of slow down of traffic.

On a side note: I know someone who went on holiday to the US and got caught doing 70 mph in a 30 zone. The cop didn't even ticket him, just told him not to do it again.

Last edited by PureFodder (2008-05-27 12:08:51)

it depends.......
30 in a 15, yes
40 in a 20, yes
50 in a 30, yes
60 in a 45, no
90 in a 75, no

The autobahn in Germany works really well, and everyone is going very fast.

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

IRONCHEF wrote:

Dude, I've driven in many cities, and even foreign countries.  Nothing is more reckless than driving in Utah! lol  That little gridlocking wonder you call traffic...where everyone goes the same speed..in ALL lanes...perfectly staggered so nobody can get through or around...is enough to make you jump out of your car into traffic to kill yourself!  And you're right..it is ONLY 5-10mph above the limit.  On surface streets (9th east in SLC for example), the wife and I call it "The Idiot Ballet" because of that haphazzard way Utah motorists take to traffic oblivious of how to merge, how to judge traffic speed, how to make eye contact with people in lanes they move into!  I could go one but wont.  Brrrrr...i'm getting chills just thinking of driving on I-15 in one of the endless construction zones where people just can't figure out the lane shifts that occur constantly....

Having done Ogden to Provo drives hundreds of times, I can say I'd rather drive in any city over Utah any day of the week....even San Jose, CA where you risk life and limb daily because of all the asian drivers there that have zero awareness or sight depth! lol

There certainly are stupid drivers in this place.  Luckily I get to take I-215 and avoid that cluster fuck of I-15.  I get on the freeway at 7th North near the airport and every day I have to try and get the freeway behind people that don't know what it means to accelerate to the flow of traffic.  They are usually at around 55 MPH when they try to merge into traffic doing 70 MPH (speed limit is 65 MPH on that stretch).  Usually Hispanics that don't have a valid license, valid insurance, or both.  I've also seen people that get on there and then immediately move to the far left (passing) lane and just drive in it while doing only the speed limit.

Yes, the freeways around here are a test in patience.

Right as I was getting ready to move, they were promising wonderful things with the I-15 expansion for the Olympics. I guess it didn't make any difference.

What I hated was the double- and triple-digit pileups the first big snow every year. People just didn't understand why their 4x4s wouldn't allow them to go 60 mph in the snow...and be able to stop, anyway.

PureFodder wrote:

The point of that was to show the issues relating to driving too close behind people. If you're too close, and the person infront changes speeds slightly, you have to respond but will obviously brake more than them (if you're too close you can't risk braking too little). The person behind then does the same because they were too close, the knock on effect is you end up with traffic moving much slower as shown in the video. If everyone gives enough room to the person infront they can slow a little and you get a little time to see what they did before responding thereby preventing this type of slow down of traffic.

So............it was demonstrating my point?

Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:

On a side note: I know someone who went on holiday to the US and got caught doing 70 mph in a 30 zone. The cop didn't even ticket him, just told him not to do it again.

Whilst I'm constantly amazed at what I can get away with by being polite and suitably contrite, I have to say I'm impressed (perhaps amazed is a better word).

loubot wrote:

It depends who is behind the wheel. I am more alert when I speed than driving at the speed limit.

Yes, but there's also less margin for error: that is, to be just as sage, you have to be more alert.

loubot wrote:

no accidents due to speeding.

According to whom?