BF2S Forums Life after $4 a gallon

Kmarion wrote:

Protecus wrote:

I think the real killer is the fact that America actually has too much space. With so much land around us, there was no reason to curb the urban sprawl and the never ending monotony of suburbs. What was once convenience has now become complete dependence.

This meteoric spike in prices may actually cause a new migration of people to the cities so they can be closer to their jobs, markets, friends, etc.

One thing I noticed in Europe was that their mass transit system was much more practical than ours. Certainly if we had a more efficient system it would help. Otherwise I'm looking to buy a horse.. yay for de-evolution..lol.

The problem is that our society isn't really structured around mass transit. They're having a hell of a time getting people to use the rails they put up in western Washington, because the stops are so far from where most people live and/or work that it actually saves time to just drive...even through traffic.

My Grandfather just came back from Saudi Arabia where he works, and informed me that it costs 4 pence  per litre of diesel over there as opposed to the £1.20 per litre we have to suffer in Britain currently.

Last edited by KILLSWITCH (2008-05-01 16:08:06)

the way i see it the gas prices and i just can't understand why my friends insist on driving a gas slurbing truck, but we all have differences.

the thing that shocks me the most though is that they think that hybrids are lame even though they do not make the car weaker (you could easily have a hybrid truck without it having no other effect other than way better gas mileage) and i do not understand why that would be a bad thing. it just seems like such a waste of energy not to use a hybrid if it's as good as any other car in all aspects except that it uses electricity. personally i would never convert fully to electricity but i think of it as a very good add-on in a car, it saves gas (less money spend on it, less carbon footprint, and less gas stops) it just seems lame to think of it as a bad thing.

liquix wrote:

B.Schuss wrote:

will you Americans please sytop whining about supposedly high gas prices. As I said before, I'd kill for gas prices as low as in the US.

Right now, gas is at 1,42 €/liter here, that's around 5,37 € per gallon, or 8,59 USD $/ gallon.

I guess the oil companies know that people love to drive everywhere in the US, and that they love their V8's, too. So they'll continue to rip you off as long as they can.

I agree with you in part, however, did you stop to think of the size of our country? Your entire country is the size of Montana, so when you have 40x the land area things tend to be placed further apart. I dunno how your country is, but when I was a kid I lived 11 miles from school. Country roads.

I guess everybody should sell their house (good luck w/ a dead real estate market) and move downtown.

For the record, my car gets 32 mpg hwy, and I drive several times per week w/ carpool.

too_money2007 wrote:

Sorta bs. I know everyone else in the world thinks we're babies, but, we're not in tightly crowded cities with public transportation at every corner (well, we all don't live in NYC). My drive from home to work is 25 miles, one way. We driver more miles on average than the rest of you chaps, so we need lower prices. I do understand that we did it to ourselves, with everyone thinking they needed an SUV that gets 8 miles to the gallon (my father-in-law gets like 9 in his Hummer). But, that's going to change with the steady increase of the prices and people's short tempers.

What kind of Bullshit excuses are those. Its like a fat person walking into McDonald's and asking for 3 Big Macs and then saying he should get the, at half price because he needs more food. As for the Distance thing... that's a load of bullshit as well.

I live 13 km (8 miles) from my school, I know people that lived up to 30km (18.5 miles)
Uni is 20km away (12 miles), I know people who live 70km away (43.5 miles)
I work 26km (16 miles) away, I know people that live 95km (60 miles) away. And I know some people that travel 170+ km (105 miles) each way to get to and from work each day.

DrunkFace wrote:

I know people who live 70km away (43.5 miles)
I work 26km (16 miles) away, I know people that live 95km (60 miles) away. And I know some people that travel 170+ km (105 miles) each way to get to and from work each day.

And do they drive? Or are they po-go sticking their way along those 105 miles?

It doesn't matter how far you are from whatever the hell you are going to, it hinges on how you can get there. Europe has many more choices when it comes to transportation, be it subways, buses, trains, and the like. We have cars. Period.

While the argument that we only have cars so we need cheaper gas is fatally flawed, distance doesn't really mean anything either.

What it boils down to is we've become completely dependent on oil and now we are paying for it. And we will continue to pay for it until we get our collective head out of our collectively obese ass and decide to change.

I agree with you in part, however, did you stop to think of the size of our country? Your entire country is the size of Montana, so when you have 40x the land area things tend to be placed further apart. I dunno how your country is, but when I was a kid I lived 11 miles from school. Country roads.

The US was colonised and organised in the age of the horse and the railroad.
Cheap fuel for vehicles and aircraft has created a mindset where people think long-distance travel is a god-given right.
You need to get yourselves better organised so you don't need to travel so much.

When the US was colonized, it was a tenth the size that it is now. If the US were only the size of the original 13 colonies, our consumption would certainly be much less. Organization can't overcome geographic distance.

Yes it could, you just need to travel less, use the telephone?
I bet the founding fathers didn't site their home 50 miles from their place of work and school their children 50 miles in the opposite direction, they lived in small communities and pretty well stayed there - as the rest of the world is still accustomed to doing.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2008-05-02 06:43:56)

max wrote:

I love high gas prices. My shell stock is making way more money than I can ever spend on fuel. And it keeps the streets empty

*calls stock broker*

Dilbert_X wrote:

The US was colonised and organised in the age of the horse and the railroad.
Cheap fuel for vehicles and aircraft has created a mindset where people think long-distance travel is a god-given right.
You need to get yourselves better organised so you don't need to travel so much.

Its kind of hard to reorganize a system that has been around for the better part of a century. While changes need to be made if we are going to survive at all without a Mad Mex-esque collapse of society, proclaiming we need to organize ourselves as if we are an unruly PTA meeting is naive at best.

Dilbert_X wrote:

I bet the founding fathers didn't site their home 50 miles from their place of work and school their children 50 miles in the opposite direction, they lived in small communities and pretty well stayed there - as the rest of the world is still accustomed to doing.

The founding fathers didn't set up their work so far from home because they didn't have to. Everyone was so focused on survival there was no wish to expand.

Now, the chances of living within 10 miles of your workplace in any major city is pretty damn low, either because you don't want to live in the middle of a corporate office park or because of residential zoning.

At least around here, a lot of people commute into San Francisco for their jobs, a good 60 miles. Not because they are disorganized. But because they can't afford the cost of a $1.5 million condo or throw down $1400 a month for a one bedroom apartment. At the time, it was cheaper to live far away than it was to live near work. But now their situation is being turned on its head.

The point is, while there are changes to be made, it is hardly fair to claim incompetence. Just our lack of due diligence.

Protecus wrote:

I think the real killer is the fact that America actually has too much space. With so much land around us, there was no reason to curb the urban sprawl and the never ending monotony of suburbs. What was once convenience has now become complete dependence.

This meteoric spike in prices may actually cause a new migration of people to the cities so they can be closer to their jobs, markets, friends, etc.

Too much space?!

You've never been to Australia, have you? Takes aaaages to get anywhere here.

Spark wrote:

Protecus wrote:

I think the real killer is the fact that America actually has too much space. With so much land around us, there was no reason to curb the urban sprawl and the never ending monotony of suburbs. What was once convenience has now become complete dependence.

This meteoric spike in prices may actually cause a new migration of people to the cities so they can be closer to their jobs, markets, friends, etc.

Too much space?!

You've never been to Australia, have you? Takes aaaages to get anywhere here.

Actually, I have. Its a 2 hour drive to get anywhere. In order to see anything, I had to take a flight from Brisbane to Caines, the down to Sydney. We only rented a car to get around the cities. And don't even get me started on your bass-ackward lanes. Not going to lie, didn't mind not having to tip though.

But in respect to the OP, yes Ozzy land has more space, but the majority of your population is on the east coast, where it actually rains. Here, we can spread where ever the hell we want, which is nice but, as we've noticed, comes with a price.

FEOS wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

I agree with you in part, however, did you stop to think of the size of our country? Your entire country is the size of Montana, so when you have 40x the land area things tend to be placed further apart. I dunno how your country is, but when I was a kid I lived 11 miles from school. Country roads.

The US was colonised and organised in the age of the horse and the railroad.
Cheap fuel for vehicles and aircraft has created a mindset where people think long-distance travel is a god-given right.
You need to get yourselves better organised so you don't need to travel so much.

When the US was colonized, it was a tenth the size that it is now. If the US were only the size of the original 13 colonies, our consumption would certainly be much less. Organization can't overcome geographic distance.

Yes it can. In Europe far more people live in cities where it is practical to use mass transit systems. In the US people are scattered. LA for example is bigger than London and has a population many times lower. That's the second largest city in the US (by population) after NY (which also has a lower population than London, but is smaller too).

Organisation could totally overcome that problem by having higher density population centres with efficient transport systems and efficient transport links between the population centres. Not that I'm suggesting that should be done, but it's a perfect example of how better organisation can overcome geographic distance.