Extradimensional space ftw!geNius wrote:
You're right. Also, a van actually has more room than a bus, but the bus looks bigger.Dilbert_X wrote:
Most cars are actually roomier and more useful than the average SUV which just looks big.
Not really, the space swallowed up by a humongous engine, gearbox, four wheel drive system and ladder chassis, plus huge wheels and wheel-arches four the suspension travel we all need when fording the amazon and climbing the himalayas take up space which could be used for other things.Extradimensional space ftw!
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Claiming that my Ford Focus has more space than a Ford Explorer is ludicrous.Dilbert_X wrote:
Not really, the space swallowed up by a humongous engine, gearbox, four wheel drive system and ladder chassis, plus huge wheels and wheel-arches four the suspension travel we all need when fording the amazon and climbing the himalayas take up space which could be used for other things.Extradimensional space ftw!
If you want to talk about space. In Japan they have an electric car with 800HP and all it was made to do was chauffeur people around. This thing can reach speeds above 200Mph. But, of course the tires are not rated for those speeds lol.
Who's claiming that? I think you either didn't read his post or didn't understand it.SenorToenails wrote:
Claiming that my Ford Focus has more space than a Ford Explorer is ludicrous.Dilbert_X wrote:
Not really, the space swallowed up by a humongous engine, gearbox, four wheel drive system and ladder chassis, plus huge wheels and wheel-arches four the suspension travel we all need when fording the amazon and climbing the himalayas take up space which could be used for other things.Extradimensional space ftw!
Gawwad wrote:
Who's claiming that? I think you either didn't read his post or didn't understand it.
My Focus, like many other cars, is not "roomier" than an SUV. Maybe you didn't read back far enough, or understand it.Dilbert_X wrote:
Most cars are actually roomier and more useful than the average SUV which just looks big.
We had a boat show in front of my building today, on the way by a nice looking SUV I stopped to look:
2008 GMC Acadia - MPG 16. For about $34,000.
The sales guy walks up, notices me pointing at the MPG...says "we have a hybrid version for $55,000". I didn't bother to ask how much mpg it got.
So, if I paid in cash:
$21,000 difference.
Gas locally is about $3.50/gal.
My current car gets about 20 mpg, I don't drive very much so I currently fill up once per week @ 15 gallon tank. 52 weeks x 15 gals x $3.50 = $2,730
If MPG on the hybrid is doubled to 40 mpg, fill up every other week = 26 x 15 x $3.50 = $1,365
So $1,365 savings per year. So $21,000 / $1,365 = 15 years to break even.
And to do the other calcs = 3x mpg = 11 years
6x mph = 9 years
How about I never had to buy gas again? $21,000 / $2,730 = 7.6 years.
This is the problem - it doesn't make economic sense to pay the "hybrid premium" unless you own the car forever.
I'll be buying a hybrid anyway. But this is what pisses me off. The government, sets an arbitary mpg limit...and then doesn't let the above calculation creep into their thinking.
Even if I doubled my usage a car running on magic would have a approx 4 year breakeven. Sorry, but the prices need to be equal.
2008 GMC Acadia - MPG 16. For about $34,000.
The sales guy walks up, notices me pointing at the MPG...says "we have a hybrid version for $55,000". I didn't bother to ask how much mpg it got.
So, if I paid in cash:
$21,000 difference.
Gas locally is about $3.50/gal.
My current car gets about 20 mpg, I don't drive very much so I currently fill up once per week @ 15 gallon tank. 52 weeks x 15 gals x $3.50 = $2,730
If MPG on the hybrid is doubled to 40 mpg, fill up every other week = 26 x 15 x $3.50 = $1,365
So $1,365 savings per year. So $21,000 / $1,365 = 15 years to break even.
And to do the other calcs = 3x mpg = 11 years
6x mph = 9 years
How about I never had to buy gas again? $21,000 / $2,730 = 7.6 years.
This is the problem - it doesn't make economic sense to pay the "hybrid premium" unless you own the car forever.
I'll be buying a hybrid anyway. But this is what pisses me off. The government, sets an arbitary mpg limit...and then doesn't let the above calculation creep into their thinking.
Even if I doubled my usage a car running on magic would have a approx 4 year breakeven. Sorry, but the prices need to be equal.
Duh I said 'most' cars, not 'your' car.My Focus, like many other cars, is not "roomier" than an SUV. Maybe you didn't read back far enough, or understand it.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2008-04-24 17:44:30)
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15 gallons/week? Holy crap, I use 6 gallons/week.My current car gets about 20 mpg, I don't drive very much so I currently fill up once per week @ 15 gallon tank.
So buy an average small car instead of a 'hybrid premium', you save both ways.This is the problem - it doesn't make economic sense to pay the "hybrid premium" unless you own the car forever.
Last edited by Dilbert_X (2008-04-24 17:51:16)
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
What I said basically boils down to "My car, like most cars, ...". Maybe you didn't catch that part. I don't know, but I did not assume you were referring to only my car, as that would be foolish.Dilbert_X wrote:
Duh I said 'most' cars, not 'your' car.My Focus, like many other cars, is not "roomier" than an SUV. Maybe you didn't read back far enough, or understand it.
What pisses me off are the urban commuters and soccer moms who drive SUVs.
Urban commuters: Are you constantly towing shit around? No? Then do yourself and the city a favor... buy a smaller damn car! You'll save money from not having to buy gas so often, you'll find it's easier to park, and people won't freak out when you drive past them in a narrow alley.
Soccer moms: Taking Billy and Sally to soccer practice does not require a fucking Abrams tank of a vehicle. The most off-roading you've ever done in your life is driving down a gravel path to the soccer field. Get a god damned station wagon because you're already a bad driver, there's no need to exacerbate the situation by driving a goliath of a vehicle.
Urban commuters: Are you constantly towing shit around? No? Then do yourself and the city a favor... buy a smaller damn car! You'll save money from not having to buy gas so often, you'll find it's easier to park, and people won't freak out when you drive past them in a narrow alley.
Soccer moms: Taking Billy and Sally to soccer practice does not require a fucking Abrams tank of a vehicle. The most off-roading you've ever done in your life is driving down a gravel path to the soccer field. Get a god damned station wagon because you're already a bad driver, there's no need to exacerbate the situation by driving a goliath of a vehicle.
1. The batteries take way too long to recharge, and if you run low on charge half way through a journey, most people wont want to sit at a 'service station' for 8 hours while their car recharges. The other alternative of changing the batteries is also unreasonable because they are so incredibly huge and heavy.Naturn wrote:
Any reason just curious?DrunkFace wrote:
I don'tNaturn wrote:
I believe without a doubt that the pure electric car is the future of automobiles.
2. Many people have to park their cars on a street (even at home) and to recharge a car would require a cord to run from your residence out onto the footpath then up to where you managed to find a park (which could be hundreds of metres away). There would be power cords all over the place, it would be ridiculous.
3. In the case of a blackout (and lets face it, they do happen, if rarely), you not only have no power to your house but you also have no way to get anywhere because you car also has no way of charging.
Basically the logistics of 'fuelling' pure electric cars is fraught with problems. The ease and simplicity of petrol means the alternative needs to be something similar. (ie. hydrogen).
1. Thats not true any more. My cell phone only takes and hour to charge and I can talk for 3.DrunkFace wrote:
1. The batteries take way too long to recharge, and if you run low on charge half way through a journey, most people wont want to sit at a 'service station' for 8 hours while their car recharges. The other alternative of changing the batteries is also unreasonable because they are so incredibly huge and heavy.
2. Many people have to park their cars on a street (even at home) and to recharge a car would require a cord to run from your residence out onto the footpath then up to where you managed to find a park (which could be hundreds of metres away). There would be power cords all over the place, it would be ridiculous.
3. In the case of a blackout (and lets face it, they do happen, if rarely), you not only have no power to your house but you also have no way to get anywhere because you car also has no way of charging.
Basically the logistics of 'fuelling' pure electric cars is fraught with problems. The ease and simplicity of petrol means the alternative needs to be something similar. (ie. hydrogen).
2. What the hell do you think people do with x-mas lights? They have cords all over they place. If this means a cheap way of getting to point a to point b most people would be happy to switch.
3. Well its a trade off. Not everything about any electric car is perfect. The positives out way the negatives with electric cars especially with todays tech.
DrunkFace, in regards to point #1, vehicles like the Chevy Volt also have a combustion engine that uses gas so if the electric charge runs out, you aren't dead in the water.
fuck the environment.
Take that back pl0x.Miggle wrote:
fuck the environment.
no.MetaL* wrote:
Take that back pl0x.Miggle wrote:
fuck the environment.
HurricaИe wrote:
DrunkFace, in regards to point #1, vehicles like the Chevy Volt also have a combustion engine that uses gas so if the electric charge runs out, you aren't dead in the water.
I believe without a doubt that the pure electric car is the future of automobiles.
A car is a little different to a mobile phone. And having to charge something for potentially 1/4 of the time it is in use is still ridiculous. Filling up petrol take what?.. 5 minutes and then you can potentially drive for say 10+ hours.Naturn wrote:
1. Thats not true any more. My cell phone only takes and hour to charge and I can talk for 3.
They don't have Christmas lights across the road, they don't have Christmas lights 2, 3, 4 houses down the road. They don't have Christmas lights in another street. They don't have Christmas lights all year round.2. What the hell do you think people do with x-mas lights? They have cords all over they place. If this means a cheap way of getting to point a to point b most people would be happy to switch.
The positives only out way the negatives, for those who do short relatively low speed trips, have a garage to park their car in every night and can charge it for 6-8 hours without fail.3. Well its a trade off. Not everything about any electric car is perfect. The positives out way the negatives with electric cars especially with todays tech.
As I said you need something that is quick and easy. ie. a new form of petrol.... Hydrogen!!!
I think I love you for not being an idiot. +1.SenorToenails wrote:
Claiming that my Ford Focus has more space than a Ford Explorer is ludicrous.Dilbert_X wrote:
Not really, the space swallowed up by a humongous engine, gearbox, four wheel drive system and ladder chassis, plus huge wheels and wheel-arches four the suspension travel we all need when fording the amazon and climbing the himalayas take up space which could be used for other things.Extradimensional space ftw!
Last edited by geNius (2008-04-24 21:41:10)
I do what I can.geNius wrote:
I think I love you for not being an idiot. +1.
Which is 90+ percent of the population.The positives only out way the negatives, for those who do short relatively low speed trips, have a garage to park their car in every night and can charge it for 6-8 hours without fail.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Your source? Cause you're full of shit.Dilbert_X wrote:
Which is 90+ percent of the population.The positives only out way the negatives, for those who do short relatively low speed trips, have a garage to park their car in every night and can charge it for 6-8 hours without fail.
Maybe he means 90% of people who live in a dense city and never leave?DrunkFace wrote:
Your source? Cause you're full of shit.
I agree he is full of it.
Last edited by SenorToenails (2008-04-25 21:08:33)
Do you actually think that makes you 'special' somehow?Miggle wrote:
no.MetaL* wrote:
Take that back pl0x.Miggle wrote:
fuck the environment.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Whatever - Go bite yourself.Your source? Cause you're full of shit.
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www … tremes.pdfNew York and Baltimore lay claim to having the highest percentage of people with “extreme” commutes; 5.6 percent of their commuters spent 90 or more minutes getting to work.
http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www … 04489.html
I stand corrected, an electric car with a 100 mile range, eg the GM EV1, should be fine for 95% of commuters in the state with the longest commutes in America, not 90%. Assuming the average speed is 60mph - a pipe dream for most commuters.
The Tesla Roadster, with a range of 221 miles, would be fine for the average persons WEEKLY commute at 20 miles per day.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!