BF2S Forums obama's pastor is not obama.

I think the Reverend was bribed by Hillary; this is the real reason she was broke.

Why are you all avoiding the obvious? That any white candidate would be run out of this presidential race long ago for white racial distinctions, that Obama has come out with about the black community.

And you all would be screaming "racist" over it. Please at least admit the painfully obvious truth.

lowing wrote:

Why are you all avoiding the obvious? That any white candidate would be run out of this presidential race long ago for white racial distinctions, that Obama has come out with about the black community.

And you all would be screaming "racist" over it. Please at least admit the painfully obvious truth.

You wanna know what the obvious is?  The obvious is that people like you are kind of like a white version of Wright.  You blame all your problems on minorities.  It could be the poor, Muslims, Mexicans, blacks, or anyone else, but despite your talk of self help and personal responsibility, you play the blame game just like Wright and Farrakhan.

The point Obama made with his speech is that we all do this bullshit to an extent.  However, as long as we continue doing it, we're not going anywhere.

So, you have 2 choices: you can continue whining about double standards just like Wright does, or you can move on and actually make a move toward working with the other side.

In recent months, I've become a lot more centrist, and I'm trying very hard to level with people like yourself that I often disagree with, but you don't make it any easier for me and others with all this blaming.

The sad thing is, much of what Obama mentioned in his recent speech has value far beyond his candidacy, but it looks as if about half of America is too prejudiced against Obama to even listen and think about what he said.

This goes beyond the election.  Even if McCain or Hillary gets elected, we will still have to find some way to come together to get shit done.  We still need to move away from all this counterproductive prejudice that each of us have.  Admittedly, I have a prejudice against Wahhabis that I've been struggling with myself.   But whatever the case, we all need to try and come up with a suitable compromise to get past things like the Iraq occupation.

...or I guess we can just continue to fixate on our differences and mistakes and mudsling each other for the rest of eternity if that's what you prefer.....

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

Why are you all avoiding the obvious? That any white candidate would be run out of this presidential race long ago for white racial distinctions, that Obama has come out with about the black community.

And you all would be screaming "racist" over it. Please at least admit the painfully obvious truth.

You wanna know what the obvious is?  The obvious is that people like you are kind of like a white version of Wright.  You blame all your problems on minorities.  It could be the poor, Muslims, Mexicans, blacks, or anyone else, but despite your talk of self help and personal responsibility, you play the blame game just like Wright and Farrakhan.

The point Obama made with his speech is that we all do this bullshit to an extent.  However, as long as we continue doing it, we're not going anywhere.

So, you have 2 choices: you can continue whining about double standards just like Wright does, or you can move on and actually make a move toward working with the other side.

In recent months, I've become a lot more centrist, and I'm trying very hard to level with people like yourself that I often disagree with, but you don't make it any easier for me and others with all this blaming.

The sad thing is, much of what Obama mentioned in his recent speech has value far beyond his candidacy, but it looks as if about half of America is too prejudiced against Obama to even listen and think about what he said.

This goes beyond the election.  Even if McCain or Hillary gets elected, we will still have to find some way to come together to get shit done.  We still need to move away from all this counterproductive prejudice that each of us have.  Admittedly, I have a prejudice against Wahhabis that I've been struggling with myself.   But whatever the case, we all need to try and come up with a suitable compromise to get past things like the Iraq occupation.

...or I guess we can just continue to fixate on our differences and mistakes and mudsling each other for the rest of eternity if that's what you prefer.....

What is funny is that this is the same tactic that Obama used in his speech, we can compromise on things (Read: Republicans give in to Democrats ideas or be called bigots.) or we can continue our mudslinging. What is sad is what lowing said is true and the main-stream media keeps defending Obama and his pastor by saying "we don't know what it's like to grow up in that time".

Sniper, you're just starting to prove topthrill right here.

Another favorite scapegoat of the right wing is the media.

Let me put this in simpler terms.  Wright uses whites and maybe Jews as scapegoats.  You are using the media as a scapegoat.

I don't even care if you're going to vote for McCain or whoever.  It doesn't matter anymore than me voting for Obama.  What matters is that we at least try to stop bickering.  Can't we at least agree on that?

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

Nope Turquoise you are wrong, completely 100% wrong about me. I do not blame races for the problems of our country, I blame under achievers, of all races. I refuse to be labeled a racist by you or any one else any longer. Calling me a racist and moving on is nothing more than a REFUSAL of you and the rest to come out and answer the tough questions and admit the truths that knock your arguments to the floor. Because you can not admit the truth without your arguments falling apart. It is happening more and more in here.

You spent half a page lecturing me and STILL did nothing toward answering my post. That also was obvious. It is the same reason GS and the rest all of a sudden no longer appear in this thread. If they show up again, it will not be to answer questions posed to them, it will be, like you, to call me aracist and move on. Go figure.

Don't you think this attitude of yours is no more productive than one like the following:  "I'm not racist.  I grew up oppressed by the white man and Jim Crow laws.  As long as rich white people run this country, black people will suffer!"

Both you and Wright have this frustration level that is blocking your ability to rationally analyze the situation.  You're frustrated at poor people who you see as underachievers, and Wright is frustrated with white people in power.

Now, I know we've had several discussions of who should receive help and who shouldn't, but you have a tendency to simplify things beyond what is reality.  Most of the time, things aren't that simple.  You keep telling yourself it is, but that doesn't change reality.

In short, I'm not calling you racist.  I'm calling you misguided.

But whatever the case, I get the distinct feeling you want to keep pointing fingers.  If that's all you want to do, be my guest, but it will be without me.  If you'd like to take a more rational approach to this, then maybe we can actually debate something here instead of just arguing.

Nope I do not feel I am part of the problem, I am a contributor to this society, I give back to it. I do not sit around and point fingers at who I think is keeping me down. I am pointing fingers at who is not getting the fuck up. I do not look at poor people as under achievers, I look at people who look for free handouts from me rather than providing for themselves as underachievers.

Just because I make an observation does not mean I am standing on the pulpit pracitically inciting fucking riots. Do not chastise me as the same as Wright, just because I am calling him on what he says, or because I am calling out Obama and his supporters for agreeing with it.

lowing wrote:

Nope I do not feel I am part of the problem, I am a contributor to this society, I give back to it. I do not sit around and point fingers at who I think is keeping me down. I am pointing fingers at who is not getting the fuck up. I do not look at poor people as under achievers, I look at people who look for free handouts from me rather than providing for themselves as underachievers.

Wright also contributes to society.  He was a spiritual leader to many.  He also ran charity programs for the local poor among other things.

lowing wrote:

Just because I make an observation does not mean I am standing on the pulpit pracitically inciting fucking riots. Do not chastise me as the same as Wright, just because I am calling him on what he says, or because I am calling out Obama and his supporters for agreeing with it.

The only chastising here is of a general nature.  I'm criticizing part of your mindset.  For the record, Wright didn't incite any riots, but he certainly acted hatefully and irresponsibly in some of the things he said.

It's just that both of you have this bitterness in your views that seems to cloud your judgment some.  I know, because I have it too.  I think we all have it to differing degrees and for different reasons.

The whole point I'm trying to get at here is: why don't we start aiming at more productive solutions?

This Wright incident will surely cost Obama to an extent, as it should.  The Bob Jones connection to Bush cost him back in 2000.  Everybody has their sketchy friends, and some of the stuff that FEOS brought up in this thread and the other one like this has been important.

I think we can agree that Obama should have, at the very least, condemned Wright's attitude earlier in his campaign.  It would have been better for both Obama himself and for those who are considering supporting him.  I myself have doubts about Obama because of his personal connection to Wright.  The reason why I still support Obama is because his actions and words clearly show that he doesn't agree with Wright when it comes to his controversial statements.

Obama surely agrees with the source of Wright's frustration, but that can't really be denied.  Racism still exists in America and likely always will.  There will always be injustices out there, but how we deal with injustices is what matters.  Obama tries to take a positive approach.  Wright has done some positive things, but he has too often let his anger get the best of him (as best shown by the speech in question).  This productive thinking is what makes Obama very different from his pastor.

Now, if Obama had garnered a reputation for being hateful as an Illinois politician or Senator, then I think you'd have more reason to think Obama has the same mindset as Wright, but that's not the case.

I can be very cynical, but even I can't look at his actions and suspect him of being someone with an axe to grind against whites.  He's half-white to begin with.

Do you honestly see him as being anti-white?

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

Nope I do not feel I am part of the problem, I am a contributor to this society, I give back to it. I do not sit around and point fingers at who I think is keeping me down. I am pointing fingers at who is not getting the fuck up. I do not look at poor people as under achievers, I look at people who look for free handouts from me rather than providing for themselves as underachievers.

Wright also contributes to society.  He was a spiritual leader to many.  He also ran charity programs for the local poor among other things.

lowing wrote:

Just because I make an observation does not mean I am standing on the pulpit pracitically inciting fucking riots. Do not chastise me as the same as Wright, just because I am calling him on what he says, or because I am calling out Obama and his supporters for agreeing with it.

The only chastising here is of a general nature.  I'm criticizing part of your mindset.  For the record, Wright didn't incite any riots, but he certainly acted hatefully and irresponsibly in some of the things he said.

It's just that both of you have this bitterness in your views that seems to cloud your judgment some.  I know, because I have it too.  I think we all have it to differing degrees and for different reasons.

The whole point I'm trying to get at here is: why don't we start aiming at more productive solutions?

This Wright incident will surely cost Obama to an extent, as it should.  The Bob Jones connection to Bush cost him back in 2000.  Everybody has their sketchy friends, and some of the stuff that FEOS brought up in this thread and the other one like this has been important.

I think we can agree that Obama should have, at the very least, condemned Wright's attitude earlier in his campaign.  It would have been better for both Obama himself and for those who are considering supporting him.  I myself have doubts about Obama because of his personal connection to Wright.  The reason why I still support Obama is because his actions and words clearly show that he doesn't agree with Wright when it comes to his controversial statements.

Obama surely agrees with the source of Wright's frustration, but that can't really be denied.  Racism still exists in America and likely always will.  There will always be injustices out there, but how we deal with injustices is what matters.  Obama tries to take a positive approach.  Wright has done some positive things, but he has too often let his anger get the best of him (as best shown by the speech in question).  This productive thinking is what makes Obama very different from his pastor.

Now, if Obama had garnered a reputation for being hateful as an Illinois politician or Senator, then I think you'd have more reason to think Obama has the same mindset as Wright, but that's not the case.

I can be very cynical, but even I can't look at his actions and suspect him of being someone with an axe to grind against whites.  He's half-white to begin with.

Do you honestly see him as being anti-white?

1. I really couldn't care less about Wright or what he thinks, my problem is Obama coddles it by not condemning him or his attitude. It is racist.

2. I do not see Obama as being anti-white, I see him as being pro-black..... For a public figure running for the office of president of the US he should be pro-American period. He clearly has chosen a side so to speak.

Now after all of this, can you please answer my question..........Why should Obama get a free pass on his private life or private associations when no other candidate can? WHy is any one that points this out a racist?

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

1. I really couldn't care less about Wright or what he thinks, my problem is Obama coddles it by not condemning him or his attitude. It is racist.

You must not have listened to the speech.  He DID condemn Wright's negativity and prejudice.  He also provided a context for it, so that people could understand why he said what he did, but he clearly stated that he disagreed with him on these things and that Wright was very wrong in his assumptions.

lowing wrote:

2. I do not see Obama as being anti-white, I see him as being pro-black..... For a public figure running for the office of president of the US he should be pro-American period. He clearly has chosen a side so to speak.

What has he done that promotes blacks above other races?  What has he said that does this?

lowing wrote:

Now after all of this, can you please answer my question..........Why should Obama get a free pass on his private life or private associations when no other candidate can? WHy is any one that points this out a racist?

I didn't say he should get a free pass.  Read my previous post again.  I said that it makes sense that the media harped on this.  I also did not say that people who point it out are racist, but I did imply that people who fixate on people like Wright often make the same errors in judgment that Wright does.

1. ANY white candidate that did not "disown" any acquaintence or association that made racial charged statements against blacks WOULD be assiassinated in the court of public opnion by everyone.

2. He is a member of a church that does exactly this. His wife has made similer comments. gimme a break.

3. It is people like Wright, the NAACP, Jesse and Al, the KKK, the American Nazis etc.......that fuel the race war. Average Americans do not give a shit anymore. The truth is Jesse  and Sharpton and the NAACP would be outta "work" if they did not keep the flames stoked. ANd Obama is a member of this church. zHe also lied when he said he never heard Wright make such statements then in his speech he said otherwise.

These Clintons?.
They might not have been a member of his church, but they invited him to the White House a number of times.

I just think it's funny how this guy has become the plague now..lol

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

1. ANY white candidate that did not "disown" any acquaintence or association that made racial charged statements against blacks WOULD be assiassinated in the court of public opnion by everyone.

I'll agree with you on this one actually.  This is part of the problem with political correctness, and it's part of what contributes to white frustration.

lowing wrote:

2. He is a member of a church that does exactly this. His wife has made similer comments. gimme a break.

Hmmm...  could you provide me with a quote by Obama or an action he has done that demonstrates what I asked about?  So far, you're just making generalizations.

lowing wrote:

3. It is people like Wright, the NAACP, Jesse and Al, the KKK, the American Nazis etc.......that fuel the race war. Average Americans do not give a shit anymore. The truth is Jesse  and Sharpton and the NAACP would be outta "work" if they did not keep the flames stoked. ANd Obama is a member of this church. zHe also lied when he said he never heard Wright make such statements then in his speech he said otherwise.

I would agree that the groups you mentioned work as you said.  I'll also agree that Obama was caught in a lie about his pastor with respect to what you said.  I still don't see the sum of his words or actions as worse than his competitors.  He has considerably less skeletons in his closet than Hillary or McCain.

2. He is guilty by ssociation, just like everyone else would be....He is married to a woman who has made similar comments, do you honestly think they have not had these discussions? Do you honestly believe he does not agree with it?

3. He very well might have less skeletons. If so, great. That is not my point. My point is, that by pointing out his skeletons, those that do so are considered racist, and I maintain anyone that would make such a charge is probably more racist than anyone they accuse.

lowing wrote:

2. He is guilty by ssociation, just like everyone else would be....He is married to a woman who has made similar comments, do you honestly think they have not had these discussions? Do you honestly believe he does not agree with it?

Frustration is one thing, but to actually think Obama is a racist?  If Obama is a racist, he is the best fucking actor in politics.

lowing wrote:

3. He very well might have less skeletons. If so, great. That is not my point. My point is, that by pointing out his skeletons, those that do so are considered racist, and I maintain anyone that would make such a charge is probably more racist than anyone they accuse.

If I simply called you a racist for pointing out Obama's flaws, then yes, I would be an asshole and an idiot.  There will be some who will defend Obama unconditionally with race baiting comments.  Just because some people will do this, it doesn't mean that Obama is somehow doing this himself.

Here's what I don't get.  You often focus on the "pull yourself up by your boot straps" mindset.  Yet, you're taking a rather defeatist stance on criticizing Obama.  There is obviously going to be some political correctness involved, but rationally weighing the significance of each flaw should be your focus.

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

2. He is guilty by ssociation, just like everyone else would be....He is married to a woman who has made similar comments, do you honestly think they have not had these discussions? Do you honestly believe he does not agree with it?

Frustration is one thing, but to actually think Obama is a racist?  If Obama is a racist, he is the best fucking actor in politics.

lowing wrote:

3. He very well might have less skeletons. If so, great. That is not my point. My point is, that by pointing out his skeletons, those that do so are considered racist, and I maintain anyone that would make such a charge is probably more racist than anyone they accuse.

If I simply called you a racist for pointing out Obama's flaws, then yes, I would be an asshole and an idiot.  There will be some who will defend Obama unconditionally with race baiting comments.  Just because some people will do this, it doesn't mean that Obama is somehow doing this himself.

Here's what I don't get.  You often focus on the "pull yourself up by your boot straps" mindset.  Yet, you're taking a rather defeatist stance on criticizing Obama.  There is obviously going to be some political correctness involved, but rationally weighing the significance of each flaw should be your focus.

Like I said, everyone surrounding and loving Obama does this, please do not try and convince me that he does not agree with what they are saying. Obama only tried to distance himself from Wright's comments ONLY after they hit youtube, and not before.


what does my position on pulling yourself up by your bootstraps have anything to do with Obama? I criticize Obama for his proud relationships with questionable characters, just like I would anyone else. I would vote for Obama if he was not a fuckin' liberal democrat, but he is so I gotta say no.